ONE (and maybe the only) Reason to Vote for McCain

I don't know if this thread is about the war or the economy.
Way too many people with a chip on there shoulder. My concern is this whole site is maybe being hi-jacked by the liberals.
Its good to have an opinion, I think, but not to the point when we split apart on what our common interest is & thats firearms.
It looks as tho there are some that are trying to devide us Patriots for sum reason.
Smells 'LIBERAL' to me.
Adios!
 
Quote:
I don't know if this thread is about the war or the economy.


The thread is about voting for John McCain. His and others stand on the war and the economy are relevant. Since McCain has gone to great lengths to identify himself with the Bush administration, comments about the Bush Administration are also relevant.

Quote:
Way too many people with a chip on there shoulder. My concern is this whole site is maybe being hi-jacked by the liberals.


And what’s your definition of a liberal? Could it be anyone that disagrees with you?

Quote:
Its good to have an opinion, I think, but not to the point when we split apart on what our common interest is & thats firearms.


So are you suggesting that we all need to be on the same page as you on all issues? I have seen people suggest that we should all have the same opinion on several subjects because it shows a division among us. That’s a ridiculous concept. All of us are free to have and express our own opinions.

Quote:
It looks as tho there are some that are trying to devide us Patriots for sum reason.


So your definition of Patriot must be anyone that agrees with you. The only conclusion I draw from this post is that you can’t deal with someone disagreeing with you so you wrap yourself in the flag and condemn those that disagree. Maybe if you could come up with some facts you might make progress changing other people’s minds.
 
Well shut my mouf!
I really did believe the fact we are at war that maybe we could agree on sumpin.
I'm wrong again.
I just find it hard to agree with anyone that disagrees with me. Is that ignorant enuff for ya?
Just doin the same thing you are Mr. Rim Runner. Looks like we be enemies cause I'm not gonna bow to your crap just like you won't bow to mine.
Oh yeah, I do consider my self a Patriot & you are not to dispute that fact.
 
Quote:
Oh yeah, I do consider my self a Patriot & you are not to dispute that fact.


I don't dispute that you're a Patriot. I get the impression that you don't consider me one and I will dispute that to the bitter end.
 
I relize that I have one advantage over some of you when trying to remember who the worst president is or has been. Statistically, I'm probably older than 65% of you. Therefore, many of you don't know about because you didn't live through the worst US president, Lyndon Baynes Johnson, like I did. He cost us 50,000 lives and what would be today many trillions of dollars for a war we HAD NO BUSINESS IN. Vietnam never threatened us. Vietnam never produces any terrorists. Vietnam never attacked us.

Our active involvement over there was from 1963 to 1973. Yes, we were there before and after the above time period, but we were not actively fighting the war. So over a ten year period we lost 50,000 lives and MIAs. The war on terror started shortly after 9/11/2001 with our attack on Afganistan. With the Iraq war starting about a year later. That means the war on terror started about 6.5 years ago and has cost us 4.000 lives. Doing the math means the war on terror will have to continue for another 72 years to reach the same death toll as Vietnam.

Is George W and Jimmy C looking better? I've always like both of them. George W can't hold a candle when compared to Johnson reguarding their respective wars. While I didn't vote for him, Jimmy C did improve our image overseas by getting the CIA out of the government destablization business. Jimmy C was probably the most honest president we have had in the last 100 years. I don't like most of his meddeling today, but he wasn't a bad president, just an unlucky one. George W and Jimmy C have one thing in common. Their presidencies are overshadowed by domestic problems beyond their control. Carter had the Iran crisis which brought about high gas prices which brought about a recession. George W has gas shortages due mainly to higher demand, a real estate crises brought about by greedy mortgage brokers, which combined have brought on a recession.

Talk about spending money. Johnson was the first big liberal tax and spender. Before Johnson, Social Security was solvent with a REAL trust fund. No so when Johnson left office. He spent the money of Vietnam and the Beutify America program. He went to the House of Representatives as a school teacher. Worked his way into the Senate and became President when Kennedy was killed. He left office a multimillionaire. One trick Ladybird Johnson pulled off is she bought a bunch of Bell Helmet stock on the cheap. Lyndon pressured the states to pass mandatory helmet laws or lose highway funding. Part of the helmet law was that helmets had to me a certain specification. Bell Helmets was the major maker whose helmets met this standard.

The war on terror doesn't have a border like Vietnam or Afganistan. Terrorists exist any where there is some one preaching terror and another person stupid enough to believes this radical preacher. The war in Afganistan is fundamental. It was a rogue regime that permitted terrorists to operate out of Afganistan. The war in Iraq isn't so easy to see the benefits of, but it still has real value. First off, the Iraq government is getting stronger everyday. When they take over, and they will, Iraq will be a moderate democratic government in a region dominated by radicals. Given time, other coutries in the region will become more moderate. This is a given when women from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc., see women in Afganistan and Iraq voting, becoming educated, and having productive lives. The second great benefit I see is we are giving all of these radical terrorists a jihad to go get their 76 virgins. If we were not doing this war, I firmly belive we would have had more attacks on US soil. In the meantime America's finest will have at least the best weaponry in the world to shoot back with. Better than 3000 civilians stuck in a big burning tower.

You can love it our hate it, but we have a whole lot more business being at war in the mideast than we ever did in Vietnam. So when you talk about the worst president, think of the man that gaves us a troop buildup of 500,000 troop strength levels in a war that WE HAD NO BUSINESS IN. I like George W and Jimmy C a whole lot better than any of the three running today. BTW: I pulled draft lottery number 333 to go to Nam. They were only going to draft to approximately 244. Sometimes it is a good thing to be unlucky.
 
Aznative,
I do not normally get involved in statements made by those who believe as you do about the war in Vietnam.Those were very difficult times for all of us who lived thru it.You are as entitled to your opinion about the war as I am to mine.I am also not interested in fighting the war again,I did that once and that was enough.But,I can not remain quiet when good Americans such as yourself,disparage what other good Americans did for this country during that war.

What I remember from that time is that communism was advancing faster thoughout the world than christianity.The communist philosophy and doctrine had a serious foothold on
nearly every continent.Communists were activly working in this country to subvert our government and our way of life,some still are.American school children were required to engage in nuclear attack drills due to the nuclear menace from the U.S.S.R..Kruschev had publicly sworn to the entire world that Russia would "bury the United Sates" economically and culturally.China,another communist country and our enemy, was emerging as a major military power.M.A.D.(Mutually Assured Destruction)was considered by most to be a very real defense against the threat of world communism.

Our leaders adopted the Cold War as a stratagy to combat the cancer of communism and to check it's spread throughout the world.The Cold War stratagy lasted more than 50 years but it worked.The U.S.S.R. no longer exists and Russia is no longer the threat it once was.Many consider China not to be the threat that it once was although that is debatable.Korea and Vietnam were two of the many battles that raged during the Cold War,but again,we won the Cold War.We won it without having to destroy most of mankind.

So please spare me the left-wing/pro-communist propaganda from the 1960's.The veterans who fought in Vietnam and sacraficed a good part of their youth and in many cases their life,deserve better.
 
We could debate that forever. My opinion, is that Johnson was not the worse, probably Carter was, he never did nothing but give away the Panama Canal that we built with American lives and dollars to have a quicker route to the Pacific. I grew up in that era and joined the army in 75 at the tail end of VN but I grew up with it in my living room and talking to Uncles that were their. Lots of good men died and alot of S_____ politicians used it as a voter base because of its unpopularity as the little S___ Heads are doing now with Iraq. It is sad to say but Americans lose the taste of war really fast, especially those who don't participate. When we go in we never really have a game plan about winning and that sucks. We won VN, the politicans lost. Oh yea, in my opinion, Clinton was the 2nd worse, he was too busy getting Bjobs that he forgot our troops in Bosnia and Somalia. He was not a military pres and did not believe in the military which was why he was a sucky pres. We have the greatest military in the world. My opinion is that Reagan was one of the greatest Pres in our history, he did not take crap and stopped the Carter era of countries sh___ing on us, he brought pride back to our country. I joined to go to VN but we began our pullout and that was that. Johnson inherited Keneddy's mess and what started out as SF training soldiers in VN ended by growing troop numbers and great soldiers dieing and coming back maimed and scarred for life with very little support from the citizens.
Big business is always behind wars and economy, whether it is rubber plantations or oil they get rich at the expense of our young men. The French failed in VN and we went in and did not get our plan together, so our soldier did what they were suppose to do, the politicians, people (many commie sympathisers - Jane Fonda for one) and unpopularity of the war was the losers, it is very similar to today in Iraq, Unpopular and if we leave now we will be fighting in our streets, and all of my heroes will have died for what, to elect someone who voted for thge war then changed their tune because it would get em votes. Just my opinion.
 
ADK,
I agree with you 100%. You are totally accurate with your reasoning and history. I never meant to disparage any of our vets from vietnam. Your views are accurate of what it was like in America during the first six or so years of our active involvement in vietnam. America was very pro war prior and during tet and for sometime afterwards. But tet and the news media gradually changed America's mind about our general public opinion of that war. Two upper classmates of mine went in just prior to tet. One came back with no legs. America thought of it as a patriotic duty to go to nam just as we do today. BTW: I was draft age in 1970 when vietnam was becoming unpopular. Like I said earlier, I drew 333 out of a possible 365. When I was too young to join, I thought I should enlist when I became of age to do so. By the time, I became of age to go in, the opinion of America had changed against the war. I've been told that I'm not the most sensitive guy, and I wish to thank you for reminding me of that.

With this said, I still believe the vietnam war was a mistake and we had no business being there given the information that I have today. Mind you, I'm not talking about what we believed in 1966. However, I'm looking back after 40 years. Hindsight is 20/20. We won the cold war because of Ronald Regan, the greatest President I will ever see. Today, I look at this war; and I firmly believe we need to be there. The comments that I made were done so to make a point to those that degrade George W and J. Carter as being the worst possible Presidents we will ever have. It really grinds me when some members state that any of the three current candidates will be better than George W. I will always be of the opinion that Lyndon B. Johnson was the worst president we have ever had. I also believe that George W will be remembered as one of our great presidents.

Something I remember is Johnson's head General, Westmoreland, being on the evening news saying something along the lines of how We are winning the war in Vietnam through attrition. The NVA will be quiting any day now. Then the Tet Offensive started and the NVA gave us one hell of a fight. AFterwards, even Walter Cronkite knew that Johnson and Westmoreland were lying. Several decades later, it was on 60 min about how Westmoreland knew the NVA was amasing huge amounts of troops and equipment while he was telling us we were winning the war. I'm sure Johnson was getting the same reports while this was happening. Tet was the beginnig of our withdrawal from Vietnam. Also, Johnson blew our Social Security trust fund. This is the point I'm trying to make that Johnson was the worst of the worst.

I hope and pray I don't eat my words and beliefs about the Iraq war; but I'm not so bull headed that I would never say I was wrong. I really hope I'm right in 20 years from now. We are all humans basing our opinions on what we know today about current events. BTW: A great read on this is The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 by Lawerence Wright. Every american should read this book IMHO. If it comes out that George W based his decision upon the same information that I'm getting, I still believe he will be a great President even if George and I are both wrong because he will still have made the best decision with the info that he had at the time. Johnson and Mcnamarra gave us a line of crap.
 
Something I would like to add is a thought of mine that goes back to 1964 when Johnson was running against Goldwater. I wonder what the world would be like today if Goldwater would have won instead of Johnson. I find it ironic that Johnson won by calling Goldwater a war monger when Johnson was the one that really escalated the war. Goldwater simply said to sh_t or get off the pot. Goldwater would have gone in hard and heavy . If it worked great, if not he would have pulled out.

Today we fight an enemy that could be our neighbor that is h_ll bent on killing us while hoping he dies in the process. This is a very different enemy that we face today which is why I suppport a war that gives these idiots a place to go die. What is really scary is the book I mentioned above paints an accurate picture of how AlQueda looks like a foolish and disorganized unit. Unfortunately, with the weapons available today, even a foolish and ill-organized fighting unit can kill thousands.
 
Aznative,

I agree with you with the exception of Vietnam. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Boy,talk about hijacking a thread.I think some of us owe Coloradopete an apology. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
Quote:
Aznative,

I agree with you with the exception of Vietnam. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Boy,talk about hijacking a thread.I think some of us owe Coloradopete an apology. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif



You guys may have hijacked the thread, but I followed your well-reasoned analysis and discussion here with great interest. I thought you all made some very interesting and thought-provoking arguments. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

As a young kid, I'm 43, my folks, especially Mom, had a passionate contempt for LBJ and I didn't fully understand it until I was older. Many of today's social problems, in my view, are as bad as they are because of his "Great Society" wealth redistribution scheme. We are still paying and paying for that.
 
Correct Java. Johnson's "War on poverty" was really a "War on the taxpayer" and one the Democrats of today will never give up. If only they had that kind of staying power against our enemies....
 
ADK: Some of the readers of this may not understand what I am about to say. First off my opinions are as stated for the reasons I brough forth. With this said, I hope your are right about vietnam, and I hope I am wrong.
 
Back
Top