OO at 40 yards...revisited

J

jwg223

New member
Well, I went and bought some Hornady TAP OO Buck today. I disected a round.

I found it uses a wad VERY VERY similar to the Flight Control Wad (Probably differing only in the patent).

There were 8 pellets. THey were non-plated, but seem to be hardened. I have HEARD they are 4% antimony. I do know they are harder to scratch/gouge than Super X Win buckshot I played with by about 100% based on stabbing the pellet with a sharp metal object (I know, REAL scientific...). THey are also a lighter grey rather than almost black.

The load is approximately 432gr and with an MV of 1600fps.

Hornady's website showed a group from the red-box (1300fps) TAP LE running something like 3" at 15 yards.

IF this hype is the case, at 40 yards I should get patterns the size of a pie-pan or maybe 12-15".

I am going to pattern this load in a day or two and scan some of the patterns if they are "that great!".

Has anyone tried Hornady TAP?

*I am not saying it WILL do this, I am only saying it is hyped up to do it. Thoughts?
 
I've shot a lot of TAP 00 Buck. TAP uses the CHOKE Wad which has been around for several years, first in custom loaded ammo, then Hornady and Federal picked it up. Federal renamed it Flite Control, but it is the same thing as the CHOKE Wad. Hornady uses a hard alloy for their shot, which is a good thing. This is an 8-pellet load as you know. Sometimes that is a good thing, sometimes not. There are a couple variations of the load, a low recoil version and a full velocity loading. The low recoil is meant for close range self defense and faster recovery follow-up shots. The low recoil wouldn't function in a lot of semi-auto shotguns so there is also the higher velocity load. My inertia driven Benelli's run the low recoil just fine, but many gas guns won't. Like any load you must pattern to determine if it will do well in your gun. It does shoot very well from my 18" barrel cylinder bore Remington 870 pump gun. 25 yard patterns will hang together for about a 14" total 8-pellet pattern. From a typical cylinder bore shorty police gun that is pretty impessive. I've seen plenty of 00 Buck loads from such a gun that won't keep their pattern on a center mass target at 25 yards, the patterns sometimes are closer to a couple of feet round! I've switched to the Federal Premium Flite Control copper plated 9-pellet load because it patterns better overall and has a bit more to offer. But the TAP isn't a bad load at all.
 
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I've shot a lot of TAP 00 Buck. TAP uses the CHOKE Wad which has been around for several years, first in custom loaded ammo, then Hornady and Federal picked it up. Federal renamed it Flite Control, but it is the same thing as the CHOKE Wad. Hornady uses a hard alloy for their shot, which is a good thing. This is an 8-pellet load as you know. Sometimes that is a good thing, sometimes not. There are a couple variations of the load, a low recoil version and a full velocity loading. The low recoil is meant for close range self defense and faster recovery follow-up shots. The low recoil wouldn't function in a lot of semi-auto shotguns so there is also the higher velocity load. My inertia driven Benelli's run the low recoil just fine, but many gas guns won't. Like any load you must pattern to determine if it will do well in your gun. It does shoot very well from my 18" barrel cylinder bore Remington 870 pump gun. 25 yard patterns will hang together for about a 14" total 8-pellet pattern. From a typical cylinder bore shorty police gun that is pretty impessive. I've seen plenty of 00 Buck loads from such a gun that won't keep their pattern on a center mass target at 25 yards, the patterns sometimes are closer to a couple of feet round! I've switched to the Federal Premium Flite Control copper plated 9-pellet load because it patterns better overall and has a bit more to offer. But the TAP isn't a bad load at all.



Should it do fine/better/ok from my MOD choke? I doubt it makes much difference the way it is designed honestly.

I will post up and let everyone know how it did in my M4 in a few days.

The stuff I have is 1600fps muzzle velocity. I like that better than the Federal FC's 1325 and an extra pellet. At 25 yards the TAP stuff is moving faster than the federal at the muzzle. I kinda would like a 15" or so pattern at 25 yards. TO me, a shotgun is supposed to have SOME sort of pattern, otherwise why not use my AR? I just want a tighter pattern than average.
 
Will it pattern better from your Modified choke? Nobody knows until you shoot it from your gun and choke. It won't out pattern the Federal load from my guns or chokes. But who knows in yours, they'll be totally different. Let us know how it shoots for you. BTW, you have the Light Magnum version of that loading. The standard version won't make 1,600 fps.
 
There is a good article in the Trapper and Predator Caller Mag I picked up at the Expo on Sat. about shotguns. The writer uses clylinder bore (no choke) for his 00 buck and got good Patterns at 35 yards. Seems the OO buck doesn't like to be "choked down" at all. I think using standard 2 3/4" shells he had 5 or 6 pellets in a 6" kill zone.

CB
 
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Will it pattern better from your Modified choke? Nobody knows until you shoot it from your gun and choke. It won't out pattern the Federal load from my guns or chokes. But who knows in yours, they'll be totally different. Let us know how it shoots for you. BTW, you have the Light Magnum version of that loading. The standard version won't make 1,600 fps.



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My Hastings Turkey choke shoots 15" patterns at 40 yards with Win 3" 00 buck that I use on deer.

Its been talked to death on this board about 00 buck, I'm not going there again.

You have to remember that coyotes are rarely standing still when you shoot them, they are running, zig zagging, jumping, etc. So you can't count on them being in the center of your pattern.

Also, one thing that no one ever talks about, is that the shot string may be 3'-6' long depending on the distance. So as the target is moving, shot is arriving on the spot in a very random pattern.

I really think that jwg223, I really believe you are beating your head up against the wall on this one, but it's your party, make it fun for you!
 
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My Hastings Turkey choke shoots 15" patterns at 40 yards with Win 3" 00 buck that I use on deer.

Its been talked to death on this board about 00 buck, I'm not going there again.

You have to remember that coyotes are rarely standing still when you shoot them, they are running, zig zagging, jumping, etc. So you can't count on them being in the center of your pattern.

Also, one thing that no one ever talks about, is that the shot string may be 3'-6' long depending on the distance. So as the target is moving, shot is arriving on the spot in a very random pattern.

I really think that jwg223, I really believe you are beating your head up against the wall on this one, but it's your party, make it fun for you!



With the design of the shot-cup (the shot stays in the cup for 5-10 yards) I would think the shot-string would be more of a shot-cluster. I may be all wet there though.

As to the intended use of this, I never stated that it would be used for a coyote. I am just curious how it will pattern. I agree that OO is a)overkill on a coyote and b)not a dense enough pattern at the longer ranges.

I am just curious how it patterns, that's all.
 
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There is a good article in the Trapper and Predator Caller Mag I picked up at the Expo on Sat. about shotguns. The writer uses clylinder bore (no choke) for his 00 buck and got good Patterns at 35 yards. Seems the OO buck doesn't like to be "choked down" at all. I think using standard 2 3/4" shells he had 5 or 6 pellets in a 6" kill zone.

CB



If he indeed got that sort of performance, he has something special. I have never seen anything even close to that type of patterning with a cylinder bore shotgun and any 00 Buck load. And I've shot a bunch of that stuff from cylinder bore shotguns over the years. But who knows, somebody has to win the lotto once in awhile! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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There is a good article in the Trapper and Predator Caller Mag I picked up at the Expo on Sat. about shotguns. The writer uses clylinder bore (no choke) for his 00 buck and got good Patterns at 35 yards. Seems the OO buck doesn't like to be "choked down" at all. I think using standard 2 3/4" shells he had 5 or 6 pellets in a 6" kill zone.

CB



If he indeed got that sort of performance, he has something special. I have never seen anything even close to that type of patterning with a cylinder bore shotgun and any 00 Buck load. And I've shot a bunch of that stuff from cylinder bore shotguns over the years. But who knows, somebody has to win the lotto once in awhile! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif


I am sure they left out the Vang Comp and hand-loads using the FC wad part... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I just got a catalog from Ballistic Products Inc, they are now selling nickel coated lead number 4 buck and nickel coated lead 00 buck if anybody wants to reload some.
 
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I just got a catalog from Ballistic Products Inc, they are now selling nickel coated lead number 4 buck and nickel coated lead 00 buck if anybody wants to reload some.



Find out first if the shot is "hard" high antimony shot or low antimony shot. A nickel plate on soft shot will help, but it's not worth the extra money if it's on soft show.

I got a batch of nickle plated BB's once from another supplier. About 25% of the pellets were soft shot.
 
CDR is right on the money with the hard shot. I still have a bunch of Nickel shot that is on soft lead. Wasted my money on that shot...pigeons could see it and dodge the shot!
 
The new stuff from BP is nice and hard. It is also copper plated then nickel plated. This is important because the nickel tends to flake off when plated directly on the lead. My early testing is showing some very nice patterns with both the 4B and 00.
John
 
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There is a good article in the Trapper and Predator Caller Mag I picked up at the Expo on Sat. about shotguns. The writer uses clylinder bore (no choke) for his 00 buck and got good Patterns at 35 yards. Seems the OO buck doesn't like to be "choked down" at all. I think using standard 2 3/4" shells he had 5 or 6 pellets in a 6" kill zone.

CB



If he indeed got that sort of performance, he has something special. I have never seen anything even close to that type of patterning with a cylinder bore shotgun and any 00 Buck load. And I've shot a bunch of that stuff from cylinder bore shotguns over the years. But who knows, somebody has to win the lotto once in awhile! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif



I agree GC, I was very surprised. He stated that the reason he tried it again now was because of earlier results years ago with lots of dead coyotes using a similar set-up - cylinder bore and 00 buck. He does state that the pattern falls apart big time after that and 50 yard shots are outta the question.

All that being said, I'm gonna get the smoothbore slug gun out and see what kinda patterns it throws just for the heck of it.

CB
 
Heck yes, it beats watching T.V. doesn't it? Let us know your results, that'd be appreciated.
 
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Heck yes, it beats watching T.V. doesn't it? Let us know your results, that'd be appreciated.



I tried it today. It was lame. That is the best way I can put it. Winchester XX 2-3/4 12 pellet OO patterns SOooo much better out of my M4.

I was getting only about 1/2 the pellets on a 14x20" or so target at 25 yards. Pathetic. The only thing I can say for it is it is fast (1600fps) and the recoil is low.

No thanks, I will be keeping somehting else in the weapon for pretty much every purpose I can think of.

Hornady TAP, at least THIS stuff, gets a huge thumbs down from me. Don't waste your money.
 
With smaller shot you can find the max range and it just may be somewhat consistent.
Large shot, buck shot is just not consistent to be reliable past 30 -35 yards even #4, IMHO.
What do I base this on? I grew up hunting deer with shotguns and have seen many guns and loads patterned and critters shot. I hunted mostly with a Browning A5/30" full choke. I have tried my Benelli with every tube including Dead Coyote. My brother has a Stoger pump. I have a Winchester M12 and a Stevens single barrel, 12 ga/3" chamber,20" with Polly choke. They are pretty much 100% deadly to 30-35 yards.
We now use shotguns for turkeys, birds and on rare occasions in the thick stuff and with HD-BB or T and the Dead Coyote tube in the Benelli it looks good to maybe 50yards for coyotes.
Every gun and load is different..... What some one else's gun does only applies to their gun and load....
I have seen a dear killed at 200 steps with 2 3/4" 00. One in the backbone. I have killed one in Arkansas at 80 steps with 3, 00 through the chest. These cases are rare and I have seen many more crippled and shot many times, dogs have to catch them, you name it. Nobody had rifles in those days and they weren't allowed anyway hunting in close proximity to others. Not allowed at all on the Eglin AF Base where we did most of our hunting.
I use a rifle rather than buckshot past 35 yards now, always. Much cleaner killin.
 
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