parallax

uper

New member
I have a Hammers 3x9 scope mounted on a Savage .17 HMR. my failing eyesight necessitates juggling the eyepiece to see a target but even without that adjusting I notice severe parallax to the extent that other than for real close (20 yds) shots accuracy is out of the question -in fact I am now of the opinion that most of failed groups are as a result of head position (parallax). This scope in particular exhibits parallax at all settings. Is there a scope that does not do this and how does one tell which scopes do?
 
I suggest getting out of the $50. Chinese scope and buy at least a medium grade scope. Weaver RF scopes, VR-7 or VR-9 have good reputations and about as inexpensive as I'd go. I have a VR-7 on my 22H. I believe the Leupold 3x9 RF scope has an adjustable objective for close in parallax adjustments. Most highpower scopes under 12x have their parallax adjusted to 100-125 yards, rimfires 50-75 yards.

I'm 70 and have had double cataract surgery, in fact I can no longer use open sights because I can't focus close enough to even distinguish the notch in the sight and unless a peep sight has a small aperture and a very large disk they are useless also. Scopes work just fine for me.
 
Originally Posted By: AWSI suggest getting out of the $50. Chinese scope and buy at least a medium grade scope. Weaver RF scopes, VR-7 or VR-9 have good reputations and about as inexpensive as I'd go. I have a VR-7 on my 22H. I believe the Leupold 3x9 RF scope has an adjustable objective for close in parallax adjustments. Most highpower scopes under 12x have their parallax adjusted to 100-125 yards, rimfires 50-75 yards.

I'm 70 and have had double cataract surgery, in fact I can no longer use open sights because I can't focus close enough to even distinguish the notch in the sight and unless a peep sight has a small aperture and a very large disk they are useless also. Scopes work just fine for me.

+1 Very well said
 
Originally Posted By: reddog964Originally Posted By: AWSI suggest getting out of the $50. Chinese scope and buy at least a medium grade scope. Weaver RF scopes, VR-7 or VR-9 have good reputations and about as inexpensive as I'd go. I have a VR-7 on my 22H. I believe the Leupold 3x9 RF scope has an adjustable objective for close in parallax adjustments. Most highpower scopes under 12x have their parallax adjusted to 100-125 yards, rimfires 50-75 yards.

I'm 70 and have had double cataract surgery, in fact I can no longer use open sights because I can't focus close enough to even distinguish the notch in the sight and unless a peep sight has a small aperture and a very large disk they are useless also. Scopes work just fine for me.

+1 Very well said

+2 Very well said!
 
Well said Red Dog - but why would you spend $300+ for a scope on a $150 gun. Besides , I too have had double cataract surgery and even on my high end scopes (I do have them) I have to adjust the objective to get a clear picture while degrading parallax. What I think scope manufacturers should think about is making a scope that has quality eyepiece end adjustment for those with less than 20/20 thus maintaining proper parallax adjustment.
 
Most scopes have and adjustable eye piece/ocular lens. I have to adjust mine to the point that they look fuzzy to others, it allows me to shoot without corrective lenses.

Aim the scope at the sky or white wall and adjust the ocular lens until the reticle is sharp and clear. You might have to make some fine adjustments keeping the reticle sharp and clear. If that doesn't work you will need to buy a adjustable parralax scope or see a eye doctor that is an accomplished shooter.

Why put a .$300 dollar scope on a $150 rifle? A rifle at $150 is not a precision instrument but it will go bang most of the time. A $50 scope is made by the cheapest labor availible with the cheapest materials that will allow it to still look like a scope. It has no proof of reliability other than to try and use it,most reviews say its cr-p and you have found this to be true also. You don't have to spend 300 on a scope the are plenty of usable/reliable scopes in the $100-$200 range. At $50 nobody is going to spend anytime checking function, if you can see through it, it's good to go.
 
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Originally Posted By: uperWell said Red Dog - but why would you spend $300+ for a scope on a $150 gun. Besides , I too have had double cataract surgery and even on my high end scopes (I do have them) I have to adjust the objective to get a clear picture while degrading parallax. What I think scope manufacturers should think about is making a scope that has quality eyepiece end adjustment for those with less than 20/20 thus maintaining proper parallax adjustment.

What you are asking for is a "DIOPTER ADJUSTMENT". Diopter adjustements help as if you were wearing eye glasses (Reading Glasses in my case as I wear 2.5 diopter when reading up close stuff following double cataract surgery and retinal surgery.

Parallex or AO knob adjusts the Objective Lens focus (Lens at the end farthest from your eyes is called the Objective Lens. It's usually the larger lens that helps gather the light into the scope tube. On more expensive scope the Objective lens is adjustable.

If you are shooting at 100 yards most objective lens on most scope are calibrated or adjusted to eliminate parallax at 100 years. So if you move your eye around behind the Occular Lens (lens closest to your eye) the cross hairs won't move. If the cross hairs move around in the scope as you move your eye around the ocular lens then you have a parallex problem. This can make you miss the target as you are not looking down the scope straight though the tube. If you eyeball is out of alignment with the scope's lens the image of the reticle (cross hairs) moved around and it's harder to hit the target.

You adjust the diopter for your own particular eye. Once it's adjusted you leave it alone. Now if someone else wants to use that scope and their eye's are different they will have to adjust the diopter for their eye. Then if you use the scope again you will had to re adjist the diopter for your eye again. Once you set it up for your eye and you are the only one using that scope then it should be good to go.

But the Objective Adjustment (OA) knob has to be adjusted for each range that you shot in order to make the target clear. So if you are shooting at something 50 yards away you have to adjust the objective for 50 yards to make the target clear. And if the target is 300 yards away you have to adjust the AO knob for 300 yards to make the target clear again. So a good range finder might come in handy in order to get the AO knob adjusted quicker.

I have a Nikon P233 Scope that has the AO adjustment knob on the scope. It's calibrated from 50 to infinity. My Nikon scope also has an diopter adjustment so that I can see the cross hairs better without wearing contacts or eye glasses.

I have the same problem when shooting open sights. My eye doctor advised me to buy some cheap reading glasses with the 1.25 diopter. That helps me see the sights on my pistols when I go shooting. The targets at 25 yards away are a little blurry when looking at them though the 1.25 diopter reading glasses but the sight picture is good and it allows me to continue to shoot. I can see 20/15 at distance without glasses or contacts now but up close I need a pair of reading glasses to see things like text on books and the computer screen. I also wear the 1.25 reading glasses for working with the computer screen. They focus my eyes at about 18" away. The 2.50 diopter focus my eyes for about 8 to 12 inches away.
 
Originally Posted By: uperWell said Red Dog - but why would you spend $300+ for a scope on a $150 gun. Besides , I too have had double cataract surgery and even on my high end scopes (I do have them) I have to adjust the objective to get a clear picture while degrading parallax. What I think scope manufacturers should think about is making a scope that has quality eyepiece end adjustment for those with less than 20/20 thus maintaining proper parallax adjustment.

Diopter adjustment and Parallax are completely different things. If your Diopter is correctly adjusted, it will not require adjustment throughout the parallax range.
 
I'm thinking an AO scope would solve your problem. You can get
Bushnell Banners with adjustable objective for around $100 and I
have had good luck with them. With my eyesight, I cannot go by the
yardage adjustment on any of my scopes, including the higher priced
models. So I have to "fiddle" with that adjustment. Side focus AO
scopes are easier to adjust, especially while hunting, but they are
also more expensive.

I might add that my 2 Banners were made either in Korea or the
Philippines. I don't know if Bushy has gone real cheap and started
making them in China or not.
 
Personally, the price of the rifle should have no bearing on the price of the scope - the only way both are related is that both are dependent upon your budget and your application. If you buy a cheap rifle because you have a small budget, then you likely are going to buy a cheap scope, which is OK, to some extent.

Lots of guys use the philosophy a scope should cost as much as the rifle on which you put it - I don't buy that, because I have a couple $5k rifles with $1,500 scopes, and I have a couple $500 rifles with $1,000 scopes, neither of which are really mis-matched for my applications.

The scope is for the shooter, not for the rifle. It doesn't matter how expensive or how cheap the rifle is, you have to be able to see to be able to shoot. It makes far more sense to put a $1,000 scope on a $150 rifle than it does to put a $150 scope on a $1,000 rifle. If you can't see, you can't aim, if you can't aim, you can't hit. It's really simple. The scope is the feedback control interface between the rifle and the shooter - it's the only ruler (12") you have to be able to measure your aim (whether your rifle is pointed at the target or not). Your trigger then is your permissive control - so the trigger is for the shooter too, not for the rifle. The trigger is what lets you tell the rifle to do work once you're satisfied with the "readout" in the scope - if the trigger causes a disturbance to a solid hold, it'll cause errors, no matter how good the rifle or scope or shooter are.

Good glass and good triggers - that's the cheapest way to coax accuracy out of any rifle.
 
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorPersonally, the price of the rifle should have no bearing on the price of the scope - the only way both are related is that both are dependent upon your budget and your application. If you buy a cheap rifle because you have a small budget, then you likely are going to buy a cheap scope, which is OK, to some extent.

Lots of guys use the philosophy a scope should cost as much as the rifle on which you put it - I don't buy that, because I have a couple $5k rifles with $1,500 scopes, and I have a couple $500 rifles with $1,000 scopes, neither of which are really mis-matched for my applications.

The scope is for the shooter, not for the rifle. It doesn't matter how expensive or how cheap the rifle is, you have to be able to see to be able to shoot. It makes far more sense to put a $1,000 scope on a $150 rifle than it does to put a $150
scope on a $1,000 rifle. If you can't see, you can't aim, if you can't aim, you can't hit. It's really simple. The scope is the feedback control interface between the rifle and the shooter - it's the only ruler (12") you have to be able to measure your aim (whether your rifle is pointed at the target or not). Your trigger then is your permissive control - so the trigger is for the shooter too, not for the rifle. The trigger is what lets you tell the rifle to do work once you're satisfied with the "readout" in the scope - if the trigger causes a disturbance to a solid hold, it'll cause errors, no matter how good the rifle or scope or shooter are.

Well said!

Good glass and good triggers - that's the cheapest way to coax accuracy out of any rifle.
 
Originally Posted By: Cranesville HunterOriginally Posted By: VarminterrorPersonally, the price of the rifle should have no bearing on the price of the scope - the only way both are related is that both are dependent upon your budget and your application. If you buy a cheap rifle because you have a small budget, then you likely are going to buy a cheap scope, which is OK, to some extent.

Lots of guys use the philosophy a scope should cost as much as the rifle on which you put it - I don't buy that, because I have a couple $5k rifles with $1,500 scopes, and I have a couple $500 rifles with $1,000 scopes, neither of which are really mis-matched for my applications.

The scope is for the shooter, not for the rifle. It doesn't matter how expensive or how cheap the rifle is, you have to be able to see to be able to shoot. It makes far more sense to put a $1,000 scope on a $150 rifle than it does to put a $150
scope on a $1,000 rifle. If you can't see, you can't aim, if you can't aim, you can't hit. It's really simple. The scope is the feedback control interface between the rifle and the shooter - it's the only ruler (12") you have to be able to measure your aim (whether your rifle is pointed at the target or not). Your trigger then is your permissive control - so the trigger is for the shooter
too, not for the rifle. The trigger is what lets you tell the rifle to do work once you're satisfied with the "readout" in the scope - if the trigger causes a disturbance to a solid hold, it'll cause errors, no matter how good the rifle or scope or shooter are.

I will try this again, well said!

Well said!

Good glass and good triggers - that's the cheapest way to coax accuracy out of any rifle.
 
On my Nikon Monarch 5x20 -44 sitting on a 243 savage BTH I have the reticle set for clear view but still have to adjust the side focus for a clear target (range 100yds.) If I set the target for clear view then I get parallax moving my head side to side. If I set the Objective for no parallax (~100 yds.) I get a fuzzy target and that is what I started this thread to get an answer for.
 
Are you adjusting your optical distance by the scale on the scope, or by your experience with the parallax??

The numbers on the knobs/objective ring are very seldom accurate and just for general guideline purposes...I have a couple of mid range (price, but really good glass) optics that are off quite a bit, I've also had double cataract surgery and have mild ARMD, and I have to adjust my objective settings where there is no parallax when I move my head/eye, regardless of what other indicators might be...
 
Originally Posted By: uperOn my Nikon Monarch 5x20 -44 sitting on a 243 savage BTH I have the reticle set for clear view but still have to adjust the side focus for a clear target (range 100yds.) If I set the target for clear view then I get parallax moving my head side to side. If I set the Objective for no parallax (~100 yds.) I get a fuzzy target and that is what I started this thread to get an answer for.

Set your parallax adj to the highest point. Adjust the diopter to clear up the reticle. Now draw the parallax adjustment back until the target is in focus with the reticle.

On SFP scopes, you will not be able to have a crystal clear reticle on a crystal clear target. They're not on the same plane and the human eye and brain coma only focus on one item at a time. It is the same principal as iron sights. Only the front sight will be completely in focus.
 
My Nikon P-308 has both ocular adjustment for making the target as clear as possible and parallax adjustment for those longer than 100 yd shots. With my failing eyesight, this combination works very well for me. I'm able to clearly see the target and adjust for parallax beyond 100yds. Out to 1000yds actually. Cost was $430, and it has 90 MOA vertical adjustment in a 30mm tube. My new favorite scope.
 
Originally Posted By: MotoHunterMy Nikon P-308 has both ocular adjustment for making the target as clear as possible and parallax adjustment for those longer than 100 yd shots. With my failing eyesight, this combination works very well for me. I'm able to clearly see the target and adjust for parallax beyond 100yds. Out to 1000yds actually. Cost was $430, and it has 90 MOA vertical adjustment in a 30mm tube. My new favorite scope.

Those are OK scopes with minimally acceptable glass. I have a couple "P" series scopes that are getting replaced as soon as I can swing it...If you were to step it up a bit in glass, the difference is tremendous. There is a BIG difference in image resolution, color clarity, and edge to edge flatness when you step up the scale. Set the parallax to max, then adjust the ocular. This will give you a proper image from bottom to top at appropriate ranges. Side by side, a comparably priced Leupold MK-AR blows the Nikon P-series away, in all aspects. Low light, image resolution, reticle is much more opaque, and the Nikon gimmick reticles are not desirable, and the Leupold has very little to no halo of the eye piece in your sight line...very flat image and clean, crisp colors....all this is as I see it, through my experience with both mentioned. The only thing Nikon has on the range of adjustment. But that's a moot point as the Leupold has more than enough usable adjustment...and one will never use up to the 90 MOA in the Nikon. However, I am glad you could find something that works for you.

As for Ocular versus Parallax adjustment, see bellow. Again, the ocular is to focus the reticle, not the target.

Quote:The whole point of focusing the ocular lens is to get a crisp and clear image of the reticle. Not the target. Just the reticle. The best way to set the focus on the ocular lens is to look through the scope at a well lit white wall, or in the backyard looking at clear sky. Set the parallax knob to infinity, which is the little figure eight symbol. You change the focus of the reticle by adjusting the diopter.


Quote:The parallax knob is how you get the target and reticle on the same focal plane and that may or may not give you a perfectly ‘in focus’ image of the target.


Following the instructions in the link will get you as close to perfect as possible. But there are always variables that may prevent perfection...

Adjustment Link
 


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