Point Blank Shots Finish Off Teen Intruders

Originally Posted By: doggin coyotesOriginally Posted By: tnshootistIf you are ever anywhere close to east tn come stand in front of my house and call me a sob,see how that works out for you.

What can we do to make this happen? I'll shoot video of the action.

Winner will take on woodguru. This is gonna be huge!

Hey, leave me outta this crap.
grin.gif
 
I support letting the court decide who should get the needle.The man Smith shouds to me like he had been harassed till he lost his mind.It sounds like a tragedy all way around.rust,what do you think happens when you "Give someone the Needle?It makes me sick when people a ready to jump out and shout kill him when they don't know anything about what happened or what brought this on.Could there be more to it that what is in the paper?maybe so.Everything justified don't sound so but I don't know,the man could have just snapped.We don't execute crazy people or do we?In any case it is easy to tell none of you have ever been involved or around much of this kind of stuff.I hope you never know any more than you do now.What blessed lives you will have.I have seen those sweet little girls cut peoples guts out.You don't know what you are talking about..
 
Originally Posted By: HunterBear71Originally Posted By: doggin coyotesOriginally Posted By: tnshootistIf you are ever anywhere close to east tn come stand in front of my house and call me a sob,see how that works out for you.

What can we do to make this happen? I'll shoot video of the action.

Winner will take on woodguru. This is gonna be huge!

LOL
smile.gif
.

I agree with the folks calling this guy a psychopath...he should not ever be allowed back on the street. To execute that young girl in that manner was sadistic.

That guy crossed a whole bunch of weird lines, not just one.

Besides being totally lame about not calling police when it happened, there are other inconsistencies. Shots ring out as the first teen goes into the basement, the shooter has the time to shoot the kid and shoot him again, drag him to a tarp, and the girl then comes down the steps minutes later? No way. That girl or any other teen would have been on another block by the time several minutes went by.

That admission or story or whatever it is that the girl laughed at him and he shot her more times in the chest than he probably needed to, that will be one of the cappers on this as is the "put her out of her misery" line, that's murder.

I'm waiting to see how this thing comes out in terms of new information.

Another interesting thing is that we don't hear about girls being involved in stuff like this very often.
 
From Today:

Little Falls teen shooting deaths called 'cold-blooded

Article by: CURT BROWN , Star Tribune

Updated: November 27, 2012 - 10:43 AM

LITTLE FALLS, MINN. - Insisting the case crosses the line from self-defense to a cold-blooded double execution, Morrison County authorities filed second-degree murder charges Monday against a 64-year-old man who killed two teenage cousins after they'd broken into his home on Thanksgiving.

This woodsy central Minnesota town of 8,000 was jolted as the gruesome details spilled out in a criminal complaint, alleging Byron David Smith put a handgun under the chin of wounded and gasping 18-year-old Haile Kifer for what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot."

Smith, who according to a friend and a relative had endured previous break-ins, sat shackled in an orange jail jumpsuit as County Attorney Brian Middendorf accused him of "cold-blooded murder of two teenagers under circumstances that are appalling and far beyond any self-defense claim."

Sheriff Michel Wetzel said Monday that he believes the teenagers were committing a burglary but said Smith's reaction went beyond legal protections of Minnesota law that allows crime victims to use reasonable force to protect themselves and their property during a felony.

"We understand and respect that right exists, but what happened in this case went further," Wetzel said. "The law doesn't permit you to execute somebody when there's no possible way the crime can continue."

And the law requires people to notify police, said Wetzel, who learned about the shooting from a neighbor the next day. The sheriff said the reason Smith gave for never calling police was "it was Thanksgiving and he didn't want to bother us on a holiday."

Hamline University School of Law professor Joseph Olson, who has studied self-defense laws, noted that the number of Smith's shots will make it difficult for him to claim self-defense in court.

"I think the first shot is justified," Olson said. "After the person is no longer a threat because they're seriously wounded, the application of self-defense is over."

High bail set

Judge Douglas P. Anderson set bail at $2 million or $1 million with conditions that Smith, a retired U.S. State Department employee, surrender his passport and firearms and not leave the state. Prosecutors cited Smith's years of international travel to Moscow, Bangkok and Beijing among the reasons for the high bail.

Smith's attorney, Gregory Larson, did not immediately contest the bail and a jail worker said Smith informed the staff he doesn't plan to post bail.

About a dozen friends and relatives of the victims attended Smith's 10-minute hearing, including 16-year-old Serina Poppen, who wore a brown Little Falls Auto and Transmission sweatshirt. Nicholas Brady, 17, the first shooting victim, lent her the sweatshirt a month ago when she was cold and the two had dated in recent months.

"No amount of bail is fair and no amount will bring them back," Poppen said. "He took it way too far. He could have just showed them his gun and told them to sit still until he called police."

Tessa Ruth, Brady's aunt, also was at the hearing and acknowledged outside the court room that "it wasn't right to be in the house and, yes, he has a right to defend himself, but not to execute them like that."

John Lange, who describes himself as Smith's best friend, was in the courtroom and visited Smith in jail.

"Byron is holding up just fine, but he shouldn't be in there, " Lange said. "You have the right to defend your home, and he's been through [beeep]."

Lange said Smith's house has been broken into six times, although authorities says they have only one report of a break-in, in October.

"They tortured him and targeted him, and it's not good," Lange said. "If you've been broken into one time, that would be enough. But it's terrible."

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, said about $10,000 worth of guns, electronic gear and cash were stolen in October.

Wetzel, the sheriff, declined to discuss what was taken in the October theft and said they have no suspects. He also declined to say whether the teens knew Smith, insisting the investigation is ongoing.

'I want him dead'

According to the complaint, Smith told police that he heard someone breaking into his house at noon on Thanksgiving. He showed police the window he says Brady and his cousin, Kifer, used to enter his house, which he said had been broken into several times before. Lange, his friend, said he kept his valuables downstairs.

Smith told police he armed himself with a rifle and a handgun and waited downstairs until he saw the first person's feet, then legs, then hips.

He said he fired and the first victim, Brady, tumbled down the stairs. While Brady looked up at him, he shot him in the face, according to the complaint.

"I want him dead," he told investigators.

He put Brady's body on a tarp and dragged him into his basement workshop and sat back down in his chair.

Several minutes later, he heard more footsteps and saw Kifer coming down the stairs. He waited until he saw her hips, then fired. She also fell down the stairs, but then his rifle jammed and Kifer laughed.

That angered Smith. "If you're trying to shoot someone and they laugh at you, you go again," he told police.

He then pulled out the .22-caliber, nine-shot revolver that he was wearing, and fired "more shots than I needed to." He dragged Kifer into the workshop, placed her next to Brady and noticed she was still gasping for air.

"Smith stated at this point he placed the handgun under the woman's chin and shot her ... up into the cranium ... a good clean finishing shot."

He told police neither of the teens were armed but he feared they might have had a weapon.

He asked a neighbor the next morning if he knew any lawyers, and that neighbor apparently called police.

Larson, Smith's lawyer, declined to discuss the case as he left the hearing, saying he needed more time to respond to the county attorney's accusations.

Middendorf, the county attorney, asked community members "not to rush to judgment. This is a terrible tragedy for the whole community," he said. "And Mr. Smith is entitled to a fair process."

'Keep out'

At Smith's house, where a "keep out" sign blocked the driveway, kids drove by who knew the victims.

They remembered two teenage cousins who were inseparable and texted each other thousands of times.

"Nick was always energetic," said Alex Janey, 18. "They had so much more to give and to just shoot them like that, it just isn't right."

Other kids rumored that drugs might have been involved, a subject authorities declined to get into, saying the case is ongoing.

Poppen said her close friend, who lent her the sweatshirt she was wearing, "was always hilarious and lived for the moment."

Throughout the town of Little Falls, stunned residents weighed in.

"This ...doesn't happen in our community," said Liberty Nunn, 20, a friend of Brady's sister. "If it was 3 o'clock in the morning, I'm a shoot first and ask questions later kind of person.

"But this was the middle of Thanksgiving Day and to not bother to call the cops? It's just not right to take a life. ... He got to shut the basement door and go on with his Thanksgiving," Nunn said, "while two families were grieving."

http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=180853761&c=y

Updated: 11/27/2012 11:21 AM
Created: 11/26/2012 10:23 AM KSTP.com | Print | Email
By: Leslie Dyste
Complaint Reveals Details in Shootings of Little Falls Teens

A 64-year-old man has been charged in the deadly shooting of two Little Falls teens.

According to authorities, Byron Smith of Belle Prairie Township is charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of 17-year-old Nicholas Brady and 18-year-old Haile Kifer.

The Sheriff's office says Smith shot and killed Brady and Kifer after the two broke into his home.

Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel says they believe this was a burglary.

According to the criminal complaint, Smith said he was in his basement on Thanksgiving when he heard two people breaking into his home upstairs. He said he heard a window break.

He saw the first pair of legs walk down the stairs and shot the man, later identified as Brady in the legs. He then shot him in the face.

He dragged Brady's body on a tarp to an office room in the basement, and returned to his chair and sat back down.

A few minutes later another person came down the stairs. He said he shot the woman, later identified as Kifer.

Smith said he tried to shoot her again, and the gun jammed. He said she laughed at him, but "It was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting." He pulled out another gun and shot her in the chest and then under the chin.

According to authorities he told investigators, "If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again." He said he feared the two teenagers had weapons. Authorities say the teenagers did not have weapons.

Smith acknowledged he had "Fired more shots than (he) needed to."

Smith said he then dragged that body into the room where the other body was. He said he noticed the woman was still gasping, and he fired another shot.

Smith never called 911. He called a neighbor Friday morning asking if the neighbor knew any lawyers.

A neighbor contacted police Friday afternoon.

Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel says, "The reason Smith said he didn't call in right away was because it was Thanksgiving and he didn't want to trouble us on a holiday."

Authorities say when deputies arrived at Smith's home, he answered the door he told deputies he had shot the teens.

Right now Minnesota law allows the use of deadly force from inside your home if it's necessary. According to Wetzel, "This case went further than that. The law does not permit you to execute someone after the threat is gone."

The county attorney Brian Middendorf said, this is a controversial case. "I would not ask that people rush to judgment. Smith is entitled to a fair process."

Smith's bail was set at a $2 million unconditional bond or a $1 million bond with the condition he cannot leave the state, and would have to surrender his passport and guns.

Smith told investigators he was fearful after several break-ins at his remote home in Little Falls, a central Minnesota town of 8,000 people. The sheriff's office had only one report of a break-in, on Oct. 27. Smith reported losing thousands of dollars in cash, gold coins, two guns, photo equipment and jewelry.

Schools in Little Falls, about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis, made counselors available, though classes weren't in session Monday. In nearby Pillager, where classes were in session, a few students sought help from school counselors and local clergy members available at the school Monday morning, said Superintendent Chuck Arns.

Smith is expected back in court on Dec. 17.

Authorities say this is still an active and ongoing investigation.

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s2845903.shtml
 
Did I miss it saying if the intruders were armed or not?
To me the first shooting all depends on the amount of time involved. Someone breaks into your house and comes down the stairs, you are completely justified in firing the first shot. If the guy rolls down the stairs and catches the second round in the head immediately, I have no problem with it. There is no way to know if the intruders are armed or not and if the wounded perp is capable of retrieving a firearm and shooting back, or how many others may be in the house. This is a 64 year old man in his own home. I don't blame him for stopping the threat. Dragging the body off was a big mistake but I could over look that as been
I also have no problem with him shooting the second intruder when she went down the stairs. The thing that comes into play is after the misfire. Again, for all the home owner knew the girl was armed. If she was capable of laughing at him, she may have also been capable of retrieving a firearm and returning fire. Shooting her with the revolver is were the gray area begins. Putting the revolver under her chin and finishing her off is where I have a problem. He should have known she was obviouly no threat at this time.
I think he should be charged with somethin along the lines of voluntary manslaughter for the girl and given minimal time or probation if he has no previous convictions.
The home owner, while making several unwise decisions, was involuntarily put in this situation by people who very well could have killed him. Anyone who invades the domicile of another has no justification to expect the resident to act in a reasonable or merciful manner.
 
Originally Posted By: tengaugetxDid I miss it saying if the intruders were armed or not?
To me the first shooting all depends on the amount of time involved. Someone breaks into your house and comes down the stairs, you are completely justified in firing the first shot. If the guy rolls down the stairs and catches the second round in the head immediately, I have no problem with it. There is no way to know if the intruders are armed or not and if the wounded perp is capable of retrieving a firearm and shooting back, or how many others may be in the house. This is a 64 year old man in his own home. I don't blame him for stopping the threat. Dragging the body off was a big mistake but I could over look that as been
I also have no problem with him shooting the second intruder when she went down the stairs. The thing that comes into play is after the misfire. Again, for all the home owner knew the girl was armed. If she was capable of laughing at him, she may have also been capable of retrieving a firearm and returning fire. Shooting her with the revolver is were the gray area begins. Putting the revolver under her chin and finishing her off is where I have a problem. He should have known she was obviouly no threat at this time.
I think he should be charged with somethin along the lines of voluntary manslaughter for the girl and given minimal time or probation if he has no previous convictions.
The home owner, while making several unwise decisions, was involuntarily put in this situation by people who very well could have killed him. Anyone who invades the domicile of another has no justification to expect the resident to act in a reasonable or merciful manner.


Yeah yeah yeah, anyone with a gun in his hand that's pointed at someone who doesn't have one in his or her hand ready to fire has a hugely wide latitude for "need to protect himself". The words "move and I'll blow you away" were made for that circumstance. You are no longer protecting yourself because you fear for your life.

This guy crossed the line way way before that under the chin coupe de grace. Everybody who's concerned with their right to protect themselves understands where the line between fear for your life and unnecessarily shooting an incapacitated person is. All your BS about not knowing if someone has a gun is just that, if it isn't in their hand you have plenty of edge to warn against making a wrong move and you know it.

Read between the lines here, use whatever common sense you have. It was minutes after the boy was shot that the girl came down the stairs (supposedly). After hearing shots and nothing more out of the boy do you think she was going to come down the stairs without a dialog? A don't shoot, I'm unarmed? What, so she could get shot too? My guess is that she would have been freaked out and scared out of her wits. This story is full of crap, just like not wanting to call 911 on thanksgiving day because he didn't want to inconvenience the cops.

This guy has problems that no amount of sympathy for protecting oneself is going to fix, he said many things from his own lips that are indefensible.

As was stated, he needs an extra 15 years just for terminal stupidity.

I think what really offends people here is the fact that one of these teens was a girl, I am glad to see most people here feel a line was crossed between defense and murder though.
 
A line was definately crossed in which the way the Home owner protected himself and Property. However if the 2 teens had NOT decided to become theives, and try and take advantage of an Old Man, they would prolly be making out their Xmas list like other Kids right now. Its a shame.
 
woodguru All your BS about not knowing if someone has a gun is just that said:
As usual the only BS here is what is flowing out of your keyboard. Try and not be the typical dumb azz lib, and try and make a point without making personal insults. I know that comes hard for you but give it a try.
Wow, I let you drag me down to your level.
Warning...why the heck would you want to give someone who is very likely in your home to do you bodily harm a warning? That is why we have the castle doctrine laws...break into someone's home and they have every right to lay you down in a hole. He shouldn't have shot the girl multiple times in the chest and done the finishing shot under the chin. No arguement about it but the perps chose to break into th emans house.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: woodguru

Read between the lines here, use whatever common sense you have. It was minutes after the boy was shot that the girl came down the stairs (supposedly). After hearing shots and nothing more out of the boy do you think she was going to come down the stairs without a dialog? A don't shoot, I'm unarmed? What, so she could get shot too? My guess is that she would have been freaked out and scared out of her wits. This story is full of crap, just like not wanting to call 911 on thanksgiving day because he didn't want to inconvenience the cops.



On the other hand Woodrot, using common sense, why would the girl enter the home at all, having heard shots. Unless maybe the boy was armed, maybe she anticipated he was the one shooting, and maybe she didn't foresee what she was about to walk into because she expected the homeowner to be dead. Try wrapping your liberal, termite infested, kool-aid soaked noodle around that one.

Yep, the whole situation is entirely weird, everything about it. If I had to guess, the girl was in the car with the stereo turned up, playing lookout. When her cousin didn't return, she went to check on him. Since they were breaking into the home, they obviously felt it was unoccupied, and since she didn't hear the shots, or anticipated that it was her cousin shooting, there is absolutely no reason to assume that she might announce she was unarmed as she entered. And, in the latter case, had she assumed it was her cousin shooting, it is more likely that she would be calling his name as she entered, not telling him she was unarmed.

Using common sense, I'm going to guess an 18 year old girl, didn't hear the shots if she entered the home.


And, the yo-yo is going to rot in jail. He crossed way too many lines on this one! He'll be lucky if he doesn't get murder one out of it. And, before you suggest they can't Woodrot, both victims were incapacitated before they were murdered. He had time to think about it. Furthermore, he had time to think about killing "WHOEVER" broke into his home, and these kids were the ones who walked in.
 
Sounds like the older man snapped after being targeted numerous times with break ins!

The teenager saw this man and house as an easy target and they made 1 too many trips into his home.

I am for the 1st shot into each intruder, too finish them off is very sad!!

I guess you need to put yourself in the homeowners shoes, he has problems for sure, why keep the bodies in your house over the holiday?? Did the parents file a missing persons report? Where the he&& are the parents at?

Not watching their children obviously!

Very sad for all parties involved...........
 
The guy definitely screwed up but just imagine having your home broken into 6 times. Would you be in a sound frame of mind if it happened again? Sounds like the old guy had had enough and snapped. He could possibly use an insanity defense in court. That being said, he should have stopped when they were first downed. One thing not mentioned is lighting. Maybe he was waiting in the dark and couldn't tell if they were armed or not. If someone breaks into my home I'm going to assume they are armed and are there to do me harm so I'd take whatever steps I felt necessary.
 
Originally Posted By: Ivers

You support a guy shooting a wounded intruder laying on the floor point blank in the face to finish him off, and then execute his girlfriend when she comes down the stairs?

If that is what you are saying, then you are one mentally unstable sick SOB.

Quick to jump to conclusions, aren't we? Isn't this what got the Treyvon people in trouble?

I am waiting for photos of the victims to be released before I make more comments.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DustOriginally Posted By: Ivers

You support a guy shooting a wounded intruder laying on the floor point blank in the face to finish him off, and then execute his girlfriend when she comes down the stairs?

If that is what you are saying, then you are one mentally unstable sick SOB.

Quick to jump to conclusions, aren't we. Isn't this what got the Treyvon people in trouble?

I am waiting for photos of the victims to be released before I make more comments.

Photos of all three are here. http://www.gadailynews.com/news/local/14...g-shooting.html

As I'm perusing this thread I have to agree Dust, just like trayvon a lot of assumptions and jumping flying. We don't know very much of the details other than msm reports and we know they tend to sensationalize. Good point Dust.
 
The lack of melanin I see means that this might not get as sensational as Treyvon's did. I spent a few years in the fourth estate. Glad I got out. Thankfully I wasn't in there for the last four sensational years.
 
2 criminals off the street. If he would have shot them both in the head as they entered the house we would be calling him a bad [beeep].... If it was 2 300lb black guys this would be a different conversation.

Not calling the cops is the biggest mistake I see. Hopefully they would have gotten there in 20 minutes so they could have shot the other intruder. The first guy I would have double tapped myself in case there was guy number 2 behind him.

This is a lesson for home owners. Get a 12 ga. full of 3" #4 buck and eliminate the need for having to put criminals down with your .22.
 
Some other info. Looks like they were on a spree, even being confronted by police the day before they hit another house. How long would it have been before they hurt or killed someones grandma or mother? On drugs and doing home invasions, it was only a matter of time before they hurt someone. Good riddance.

The Associated Press
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 9:16 AM EST
Print Share This undated photo provided by Ashley Olson shows Nicholas Brady, one of two unarmed... (AP Photo/Courtesy Ashley Olson)

LITTLE FALLS, Minn. (AP) — The teenage cousins shot and killed during an alleged home burglary on Thanksgiving Day may have committed a similar crime a day earlier at a house nearby, authorities said.

Intruders broke into the Little Falls home of retired teacher Richard L. Johnson on November 21 and stole coins and prescription medication. Johnson was overseas at the time, according to a Minneapolis Star Tribune report ( bit.ly/Y4ueUf).

Before the burglary had been discovered, deputies were called to the neighborhood because a red Mitsubishi Eclipse was spotted in the driveway of Johnson's empty house, Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel said. Nicholas Brady, 17, had been driving that car, although it wasn't registered to him. Deputies questioned him then let him go, Wetzel said.

A day later, Byron Smith shot and killed Brady and Brady's 18-year-old cousin, Haile Kifer, in the basement of his Little Falls home. Smith told authorities that he disturbed the pair as they tried to break into his house and that he shot them in self-defense. The same red Mitsubishi Eclipse was discovered Friday parked around the corner from Smith's property.

"There are some preliminary indications that the Johnson burglary may have been committed by the Brady boy and the Kifer girl, but it's too early now to say definitively," Wetzel said, adding that more information could be available Wednesday.

Wetzel couldn't immediately say whether any of Johnson's belongings were found in Brady's car.

"I do know they found quite a bit of evidence in their vehicle that was parked near the Smith place," the sheriff said late Tuesday. "We're trying to investigate whether it might have come from the Johnson burglary."

Smith, a retired U.S. State Department employee, was charged Monday with two counts of murder. According to the criminal complaint, Smith shot the teens multiple times. He told investigators his home had been broken into several times before.

Minnesota law gives homeowners the right to protect themselves and their property, but Wetzel said they don't have the right to execute an intruder once the threat is neutralized.

Smith told authorities that he was in his basement last Thursday when he heard a window break upstairs. When he saw Brady on the basement stairwell, he fired at the teenager then shot him again in the face after he fell down.

The complaint said Smith told an investigator: "I want him dead."

Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his workshop. When Kifer came down the stairs, he shot her multiple times. He dragged her into the room and as she gasped for air, he fired what he described as a "good clean finishing shot" under her chin "up into the cranium," the complaint said.
 
Wow, it appears These vermin were no better than the triple amputee pen waving invalid.. Good riddance. Throw some dirt on em' and call it a day
 
Back
Top