Primer Popping Issue [pics included.]

RoscoeT

RoscoeT

New member
Hello All,

I've just bought a new Weatherby Vanguard in .223 Rem.

I've been having problems, every few shots, where the pin contacts the primer it will blow out. Forcing a piece of the primer back into the bolt. This jams the firing pin for the next shot. The bolt must be disassembled and the small, round chunk of primer removed.

The following picture shows 4 spent cases. The 2 on the left are blown out and the 2 on the right are normal.

The ammo is Sellier & Bellot 55grs .223 REM. FMJ
The side of the box says 4,4mm boxer.

What could be the cause of this?

The pin is in mint condition, not sharp or abnormal. Going to switch ammo and try it but are there any opinions out there?

Thanks for any help.
primer_problem1.jpg
 
I would try different ammo as a first choice and see if it happens again. I have had good luck with S&B ammo in .357 Mag, but thats my only experience. Good luck.
 
On my screen, the primers on the two "good" ones appear to have some cratering. Is that correct?

My thoughts are that something's csusing some high chamber pressure. Whether that's ammo loaded to hot for your rifle, or just what's going on I'm not sure.

Try some different ammo and watch for any pressure signs.

If you were handloading I'd tell you to reduce your load and try Rem 7 1/2 primers.

Daryl
 
Originally Posted By: DarylOn my screen, the primers on the two "good" ones appear to have some cratering. Is that correct?

Daryl

Yes, if I understand the term you've used. It seems like it is raised out a touch like the edges of an impact crater. You can actually catch your fingernail on the dimple.

Is that normal? What would that indicate?
 
The edges of the primers seem to be round indicating no signs of excess pressure, a rough chamber will also cause this, holding the case until higher pressure occurs and then slams the bolt face. ed
 
Question?
Do the rounds chamber easily or are they a little on the tight side when you close the bolt?
Only Weatherby I've had a challenge with had a rather tight chamber. Required more sizing than Ruger and any AR I'd used. Since the brass is marked 223 REM, shouldn't be the problem but feel it close and see if they are tighter than say a Remington or some other brand. Also Looks like an oversized fireing pin through bolt face hole as well.
Those little pieces loose in the bolt aren't good,
 
Originally Posted By: gotchanowChange ammo I bet it solves the problem

Yeah, that is going to be my first step.

The rounds do chamber easily, no undue force or resistance met.

I've also posted this problem in a gun smithing forum and they suggested everything from new ammo to "bushings for the bolt face"...?

I am not sure why the size of the hole for the firing pin would make the primer pop out like that. I'm not a sure not a smith but I can't really understand how.

It's a real pain in the butt.
 
i'm far from being an expert or knowledgeable on this but primer piercing as i understand it has to do with the relationship between the firing pin diameter & the firing pin hole diameter & high pressure chamberings. Sometimes the manuf's allow these dimensions to wander & ya get all sorts of mysterious malfunctions & issues. By constructing a FP bushing (a guiding tube,if you will) inside the FP hole you reduce the "slop" between the two. This aligns the FP tip to the center of the FP hole for faster more reliable ignition & less vibrations in&on the FP from the FP spring & less wear on the entire mechanism. I witnessed this on 2 Browning BLR's in 7/08 with consecutive s/n's. One wud pierce primers with factory ammo or reloads;the other not. You could see the FP hole was larger in the one...Browning replaced the BLR bolt mechanism. Another issue you hav to be concerned with is a scorched FP tip...loss of temper & failure. I would try a diff manuf of ammo AND contact Wby & get their input.
 
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Trying a diff brand of ammo may be just a "get around" for whatever may be causing ur prob. Contacting Weatherby would be my preferred choice if it was my firearm. And I'm not imply'n this is the only cause of the prob.
 
Originally Posted By: Chapped Lips... primer piercing as i understand it has to do with the relationship between the firing pin diameter & the firing pin hole diameter & high pressure chamberings.

... I would try a diff manuf of ammo AND contact Wby & get their input.

I checked the pin's fit in the hole and there is absolutely zero play. I looks and feels like a perfect fit. Does not wiggle or allow any type of slop.

Going to try better ammo and see.
 
I would say that there may be excessive grease, gunk, or primer material keeping the firing pin from going all the way forward. A weak firing pin spring, or a short firing pin could give about the same result. It doesn't appear to be excess pressure since the primers are not overly flattened. An over-sized firing pin hole in the bolt face or under-sized firing pin diameter can allow the primer to be extruded into the bolt face.

I would suggest dis-assembly of the bolt and checking the above items. Be sure the firing pin can bottom out with at least the full radius protruding through the bolt face.
 
RoscoeT...i just took a closer look at ur pic...on the 2 far right cases...are the firing pin dents as far off-center as pic kinda indicates? It's difficult for me to tell...there also looks to be a "flow" of primer surface material toward the 10-11 o'clock position...but not down toward the 4-5 o'clock position...true? If so,there may be a manuf prob in the bolt. I would contact Wby & send them that pic.
 
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Well, I just got back from the range.

Tried it with 3 other types of ammo.

The really cheap eastern Europe stuff (priv something) still did it but not as frequently as the Sellier & Bellot.

Remington 45gr did not blank the primer but there was noticeable cratering.

American Eagle 50rr was perfect as far as I could see. There was no noticeable cratering and it grouped the best of all 4 types I tested.

I am going to contact Weatherby and see what they will do for me.

If I have to be picky about the ammo then so be it but right now I am not impressed. The cost of both time, range trips and ammo to test this brand new in the box rifle has made me a bit cranky.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

Roscoe

 
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I have had similar issues with that same ammo. They work fine in my Wylde chambered AR but in my bolt gun I have the same problem as you. I would try different ammo before doing anything else.

Nick
 
Thinking out loud - maybe cases are too small for your (generously cut?) chamber?? Upon firing, the firing pin is shoving the entire cartridge forward, upon ignition the case is coming back; but not before the primer does strange things ???
Mark
 
I'd measure the firing pin protrusion and look in the chamber with a borescope. I don't see evidence of high pressure - the primers have nice round shoulders. But as previously noted, a rough chamber can cause this, so can excess primer protrusion. So can a bad fitting firing pin but you've checked that.

That said, the rifle absolutely should shoot any and all comercial .223 ammunition and both the likely causes are a factory problem. Having to pick brands to avoid pierced primers is completely unacceptable. I'd contact Weatherby were it me.

Fitch
 


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