primers
- Thread starter lowholer1
- Start date
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
17 Rem's has been known to pierce primers, I always use magnum primers in mine.
Plant.One
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: lowholer1can I substitute small pistol primers for small rifle primers?
can and should are two entirely different questions.
yes you can. physically speaking, they share the same external dimensions. so one will fit in the hole if you were so inclined.
however - unless we're talking about being somewhere several years well into the zombie apocalypse, its not something for safety reasons you'd probably want to do.
small pistol primers are not engineered to withstand the pressure ratings of even relatively mild rifle loads.
when you consider that even a "spicy" pistol cartridge like the .40 acp is a 35,000 PSI cartridge - and that most modern rifle cartridges are in the 50,000-55,000 PSI range... you can see how that might be a bit of a safety concern.
so i'd highly recommend against the practice. You'd be much better served to find someone who has the primers you need and work out a trade deal.
just remember - you cant ship hazmat items without a hazmat license, so your trade will have to be a face to face event.
good luck, and stay safe
can and should are two entirely different questions.
yes you can. physically speaking, they share the same external dimensions. so one will fit in the hole if you were so inclined.
however - unless we're talking about being somewhere several years well into the zombie apocalypse, its not something for safety reasons you'd probably want to do.
small pistol primers are not engineered to withstand the pressure ratings of even relatively mild rifle loads.
when you consider that even a "spicy" pistol cartridge like the .40 acp is a 35,000 PSI cartridge - and that most modern rifle cartridges are in the 50,000-55,000 PSI range... you can see how that might be a bit of a safety concern.
so i'd highly recommend against the practice. You'd be much better served to find someone who has the primers you need and work out a trade deal.
just remember - you cant ship hazmat items without a hazmat license, so your trade will have to be a face to face event.
good luck, and stay safe
DannoBoone
Active member
Originally Posted By: Plant.Onejust remember - you cant ship hazmat items without a hazmat license, so your trade will have to be a face to face event.
Primers, cartridges and small arms can be shipped by UPS Ground
using their ORM-D label. But one may need to go to one of their
main terminals to do so. I just shipped 1k primers to a person
in need.
Primers, cartridges and small arms can be shipped by UPS Ground
using their ORM-D label. But one may need to go to one of their
main terminals to do so. I just shipped 1k primers to a person
in need.
reb8600
Retired PM Staff
Originally Posted By: DannoBooneOriginally Posted By: Plant.Onejust remember - you cant ship hazmat items without a hazmat license, so your trade will have to be a face to face event.
Primers, cartridges and small arms can be shipped by UPS Ground
using their ORM-D label. But one may need to go to one of their
main terminals to do so. I just shipped 1k primers to a person
in need.
Primers and powder DO NOT fall into the ORM-D class. As stated, a hazmat license is required to ship those items. Why do you think a hazmat fee is charged for them but not for ammunition.
You may want to be careful posting on a forum that you are breaking the law.
Primers, cartridges and small arms can be shipped by UPS Ground
using their ORM-D label. But one may need to go to one of their
main terminals to do so. I just shipped 1k primers to a person
in need.
Primers and powder DO NOT fall into the ORM-D class. As stated, a hazmat license is required to ship those items. Why do you think a hazmat fee is charged for them but not for ammunition.
You may want to be careful posting on a forum that you are breaking the law.
DannoBoone
Active member
I MAY stand corrected but know this....the manager at the local
UPS terminal who was on duty the day of shipment knew exactly
what was being shipped, and he himself attached the ORM-D label
to the package.
After checking the UPS site just now, all this is probably mute
for they are discontinuing ORM-D.
https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/pa...ound-orm-d.page
"All ORM-D classifications (Consumer Commodity; Cartridges,
small arms; and Cartridges power device) are being eliminated
and may no longer be used after December 31, 2020."
Heretofore, I understood "cartridges power device" to be
primers. Is that an incorrect understanding? Was the UPS
manager's understanding incorrect?
UPS terminal who was on duty the day of shipment knew exactly
what was being shipped, and he himself attached the ORM-D label
to the package.
After checking the UPS site just now, all this is probably mute
for they are discontinuing ORM-D.
https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/pa...ound-orm-d.page
"All ORM-D classifications (Consumer Commodity; Cartridges,
small arms; and Cartridges power device) are being eliminated
and may no longer be used after December 31, 2020."
Heretofore, I understood "cartridges power device" to be
primers. Is that an incorrect understanding? Was the UPS
manager's understanding incorrect?
That is incorrect. Neither powder nor primers may be shipped via common carrier without HazMat certification, and absent HazMat compliant packaging. Ammunition and primers contained within cartridge cases can be shipped via UPS.
ORM-D has been obsolete for quite some time, replaced by the "Limited Quantity" diamond label. ORM-D will be officially phased out Jan 1. The same regulations still apply, simply a change in labeling.
ORM-D has been obsolete for quite some time, replaced by the "Limited Quantity" diamond label. ORM-D will be officially phased out Jan 1. The same regulations still apply, simply a change in labeling.
Quote:Special Procedures for Shipping Ammunition
UPS accepts for transportation such ammunition as constitutes "cartridges, small arms," as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59.
§ 173.59 Description of terms for explosives.
Cartridges, power device. Articles designed to accomplish mechanical actions. They consist of a casing with a charge of deflagrating explosive and a means of ignition. The gaseous products of the deflagration produce inflation, linear or rotary motion; activate diaphragms, valves or switches, or project fastening devices or extinguishing agents.
Primers, cap type. Articles consisting of a metal or plastic cap containing a small amount of primary explosive mixture that is readily ignited by impact. They serve as igniting elements in small arms cartridges and in percussion primers for propelling charges.
Quote:Source
49 CFR § 173.59
Scoping language
For the purpose of this subchapter, a description of the following terms is provided for information only. They must not be used for purposes of classification or to replace proper shipping names prescribed in 172.101 of this subchapter.
Cartridges, small arms.
Cartridges, small arms. Ammunition consisting of a cartridge case fitted with a center or rim fire primer and containing both a propelling charge and solid projectile. They are designed to be fired in weapons of caliber not larger than 19.1 mm. Shotgun cartridges of any caliber are included in this description. The term excludes: Cartridges, small arms, blank, and some military small arms cartridges listed under Cartridges for weapons, inert projectile.
Regards,
hm
UPS accepts for transportation such ammunition as constitutes "cartridges, small arms," as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59.
§ 173.59 Description of terms for explosives.
Cartridges, power device. Articles designed to accomplish mechanical actions. They consist of a casing with a charge of deflagrating explosive and a means of ignition. The gaseous products of the deflagration produce inflation, linear or rotary motion; activate diaphragms, valves or switches, or project fastening devices or extinguishing agents.
Primers, cap type. Articles consisting of a metal or plastic cap containing a small amount of primary explosive mixture that is readily ignited by impact. They serve as igniting elements in small arms cartridges and in percussion primers for propelling charges.
Quote:Source
49 CFR § 173.59
Scoping language
For the purpose of this subchapter, a description of the following terms is provided for information only. They must not be used for purposes of classification or to replace proper shipping names prescribed in 172.101 of this subchapter.
Cartridges, small arms.
Cartridges, small arms. Ammunition consisting of a cartridge case fitted with a center or rim fire primer and containing both a propelling charge and solid projectile. They are designed to be fired in weapons of caliber not larger than 19.1 mm. Shotgun cartridges of any caliber are included in this description. The term excludes: Cartridges, small arms, blank, and some military small arms cartridges listed under Cartridges for weapons, inert projectile.
Regards,
hm
Plant.One
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: DannoBooneI MAY stand corrected but know this....the manager at the local
UPS terminal who was on duty the day of shipment knew exactly
what was being shipped, and he himself attached the ORM-D label
to the package.
After checking the UPS site just now, all this is probably mute
for they are discontinuing ORM-D.
https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/pa...ound-orm-d.page
"All ORM-D classifications (Consumer Commodity; Cartridges,
small arms; and Cartridges power device) are being eliminated
and may no longer be used after December 31, 2020."
Heretofore, I understood "cartridges power device" to be
primers. Is that an incorrect understanding? Was the UPS
manager's understanding incorrect?
with the package load they're currently under... all the shipping folks are obviously way overworked during this holiday season.
just because you physically told them what was in the box, doesnt mean they understood what you were describing or the law as it applies to primers/powder and didnt (unintentionally) assist you in breaking federal HAZMAT law. clearly if they had... we wouldnt be having this discussion.
generally speaking - accepting a UPS counter jockey's actions as valid legal advise is about like asking the counter guy at mcdonalds for medical advise when you're experiencing a medical emergency. neither of which is probably a sound idea.
"cartridge powder device" is NOT individual primers (or packages of them). its a whole loaded cartridge (hence the word cartridge), or a primer already inserted into a piece of brass. thats not very vague, and if you do get hemmed up... i'd probably leave that part out of your defense (IANAL, so take that advise for what i charged you for it)
here's to hoping that you dont end up paying a penalty over your ignorance. which the folks who enforce these kinds of things care absolutely nothing for.
even if you end up without a fine, unless you're independently wealthy with a silver spoon trust fund, the costs of the lawyer alone are going to be painful at best.
UPS terminal who was on duty the day of shipment knew exactly
what was being shipped, and he himself attached the ORM-D label
to the package.
After checking the UPS site just now, all this is probably mute
for they are discontinuing ORM-D.
https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/pa...ound-orm-d.page
"All ORM-D classifications (Consumer Commodity; Cartridges,
small arms; and Cartridges power device) are being eliminated
and may no longer be used after December 31, 2020."
Heretofore, I understood "cartridges power device" to be
primers. Is that an incorrect understanding? Was the UPS
manager's understanding incorrect?
with the package load they're currently under... all the shipping folks are obviously way overworked during this holiday season.
just because you physically told them what was in the box, doesnt mean they understood what you were describing or the law as it applies to primers/powder and didnt (unintentionally) assist you in breaking federal HAZMAT law. clearly if they had... we wouldnt be having this discussion.
generally speaking - accepting a UPS counter jockey's actions as valid legal advise is about like asking the counter guy at mcdonalds for medical advise when you're experiencing a medical emergency. neither of which is probably a sound idea.
"cartridge powder device" is NOT individual primers (or packages of them). its a whole loaded cartridge (hence the word cartridge), or a primer already inserted into a piece of brass. thats not very vague, and if you do get hemmed up... i'd probably leave that part out of your defense (IANAL, so take that advise for what i charged you for it)
here's to hoping that you dont end up paying a penalty over your ignorance. which the folks who enforce these kinds of things care absolutely nothing for.
even if you end up without a fine, unless you're independently wealthy with a silver spoon trust fund, the costs of the lawyer alone are going to be painful at best.
Zastava223rem
Member
Originally Posted By: DannoBooneOriginally Posted By: Plant.Onejust remember - you cant ship hazmat items without a hazmat license, so your trade will have to be a face to face event.
Primers, cartridges and small arms can be shipped by UPS Ground
using their ORM-D label. But one may need to go to one of their
main terminals to do so. I just shipped 1k primers to a person
in need.
Primers are a class 1.4 explosive. They MUST be shipped via HAZMAT and be properly marked. You cannot ship HAZMAT items without having an endorsed account through UPS or Fedex. That in of itself is very difficult to get. Ive been trying for 6 months without much response on UPS's end
Primers, cartridges and small arms can be shipped by UPS Ground
using their ORM-D label. But one may need to go to one of their
main terminals to do so. I just shipped 1k primers to a person
in need.
Primers are a class 1.4 explosive. They MUST be shipped via HAZMAT and be properly marked. You cannot ship HAZMAT items without having an endorsed account through UPS or Fedex. That in of itself is very difficult to get. Ive been trying for 6 months without much response on UPS's end