TNdeerhunter
Member
I am looking at buying a .223 and was wondering what the cost of having it punched to a Ackley Improved might be as well as pros and cons? I also can't decide on the rifle I'm going to purchase for this project...any ideas?
Punching a .223 to a .223 AI
- Thread starter TNdeerhunter
- Start date
brdeano
New member
It all depends on your smith. Mine charges about 80$ to punch out a factory tube.
Pros: you pick up a little speed. You can also just about toss out your case trimmer. You can still fire factory loaded ammo if you want too.
Cons: some guys have issues with feeding, I've yet to see it myself. You need another set of dies. You can load vanilla 223's with a 223AI die set, but not vice-versa.
Pros: you pick up a little speed. You can also just about toss out your case trimmer. You can still fire factory loaded ammo if you want too.
Cons: some guys have issues with feeding, I've yet to see it myself. You need another set of dies. You can load vanilla 223's with a 223AI die set, but not vice-versa.
Outlawkyote
New member
Ive used my 223 lee collet die to load for the 223AI but its the only one Im aware of that can do that.
I prefer Savage rifles because you can work on them so easy. Swapping a barrel can give you any combination of cartridges like 221 fireball, 204 ruger, 223, 223AI 222rem, 222rem mag, 17 tactacle, etc etc.
Ive got a couple 223AIs and really like them. My newest build is really starting to come together.
Its a Savage single shot action thats been timed and trued with a tactacle bolt handle, compatition trigger, Shilen 8 twist barrel cut to 27" and crowned with an 11* crown. Ken ferrel bases and rings holding an 8-24X sightron scope. The stock is a McMillan silouette in marbled blue. I figure the PDs wont mind a blue rifle.
Just fireforming brass is getting me groups in the .2s at 127 yds of bipods and rear bag laying prone. They are accurate and a little faster than the standard 223rem. Case stretch is almost non existant and I can still shoot factory ammo in a pinch.
Nothing wrong with a Savage as far as Im concerned.
I prefer Savage rifles because you can work on them so easy. Swapping a barrel can give you any combination of cartridges like 221 fireball, 204 ruger, 223, 223AI 222rem, 222rem mag, 17 tactacle, etc etc.
Ive got a couple 223AIs and really like them. My newest build is really starting to come together.
Its a Savage single shot action thats been timed and trued with a tactacle bolt handle, compatition trigger, Shilen 8 twist barrel cut to 27" and crowned with an 11* crown. Ken ferrel bases and rings holding an 8-24X sightron scope. The stock is a McMillan silouette in marbled blue. I figure the PDs wont mind a blue rifle.
Just fireforming brass is getting me groups in the .2s at 127 yds of bipods and rear bag laying prone. They are accurate and a little faster than the standard 223rem. Case stretch is almost non existant and I can still shoot factory ammo in a pinch.
Nothing wrong with a Savage as far as Im concerned.
TNdeerhunter
Member
I am looking at Remington, Savage and Weatherby Vanguards for the rifle. I do like the Savage because of the ease of swapping barrels. What rate of twist does everyone recommend? I was looking at a 1/12" Would like to shoot bullets from 40-60gr.
Outlawkyote
New member
My 223AI with 14twist will stabalize the 60gr bullets
I prefer the 50gr bullets in this rifle because they tend to be easier on pelts. OH yeah, its a savage repeater with a 26" Shilen in a McMillan Varmint stock
I prefer the 50gr bullets in this rifle because they tend to be easier on pelts. OH yeah, its a savage repeater with a 26" Shilen in a McMillan Varmint stock
Bayou City Boy
New member
To do it properly, you need to have the barrel set back about one thread so the AI chamber can be cut properly.
The head space measurement on an AI case is less than the parent case, so if the smith just goes into an existing chamber with an AI reamer, you'll end up with nothing but problems.
-BCB
The head space measurement on an AI case is less than the parent case, so if the smith just goes into an existing chamber with an AI reamer, you'll end up with nothing but problems.
-BCB
MPFD
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Bayou City BoyTo do it properly, you need to have the barrel set back about one thread so the AI chamber can be cut properly.
The head space measurement on an AI case is less than the parent case, so if the smith just goes into an existing chamber with an AI reamer, you'll end up with nothing but problems.
-BCB
Wow thats really good information! Glad we have such a great pro staff on this website!
The head space measurement on an AI case is less than the parent case, so if the smith just goes into an existing chamber with an AI reamer, you'll end up with nothing but problems.
-BCB
Wow thats really good information! Glad we have such a great pro staff on this website!
TNdeerhunter
Member
I knew that it needed to be set back surely a competent gunsmith would know that as well. A .280 needs the same. So does anyone recommend a good gunsmith that can do this and what is the cost?
Outlawkyote
New member
I think it would depend a lot on the material and flavor of rifle he was working with.
A blued barrel may need re-blued after the work is done to hide tooling marks or different actions may require more cutting on the barrel to set it back.
Ive always done my own so I cant say for sure what a smith would charge for his services.
Of course while your having it done, you may want to have it recrowned and a machined recoil lug installed. I also recomend having the face of the action re-surfaced. These things will help squeeze a lot more accuracy out of any barrel.
A blued barrel may need re-blued after the work is done to hide tooling marks or different actions may require more cutting on the barrel to set it back.
Ive always done my own so I cant say for sure what a smith would charge for his services.
Of course while your having it done, you may want to have it recrowned and a machined recoil lug installed. I also recomend having the face of the action re-surfaced. These things will help squeeze a lot more accuracy out of any barrel.
Rustydust
Active member
Originally Posted By: Bayou City BoyTo do it properly, you need to have the barrel set back about one thread so the AI chamber can be cut properly.
The head space measurement on an AI case is less than the parent case, so if the smith just goes into an existing chamber with an AI reamer, you'll end up with nothing but problems.
-BCB
I just picked up my .223 AI from my gunsmith yesterday afternoon. He as built several of them and is very fond of the caliber. He echoed almost exactly what BCB just said, and also said that a standard .223 round should be a "crush fit" when chambered in the AI before fireforming. After it warms up a bit today I plan on hitting the range with mine and fireforming a bit of brass for it.
The head space measurement on an AI case is less than the parent case, so if the smith just goes into an existing chamber with an AI reamer, you'll end up with nothing but problems.
-BCB
I just picked up my .223 AI from my gunsmith yesterday afternoon. He as built several of them and is very fond of the caliber. He echoed almost exactly what BCB just said, and also said that a standard .223 round should be a "crush fit" when chambered in the AI before fireforming. After it warms up a bit today I plan on hitting the range with mine and fireforming a bit of brass for it.
RePete
New member
Originally Posted By: MPFDOriginally Posted By: Bayou City BoyTo do it properly, you need to have the barrel set back about one thread so the AI chamber can be cut properly.
The head space measurement on an AI case is less than the parent case, so if the smith just goes into an existing chamber with an AI reamer, you'll end up with nothing but problems.
-BCB
Wow thats really good information! Glad we have such a great pro staff on this website!
Nowdays I cringe whenever I hear the term "Pro Staff"..
Seems like everyone that ever sharpened a stick and gave it to someone else has a team of 'Pro Staffer's"..
Even though he's almost as crotchety as I am, I do tend to listen when I see BCB talk about a specific topic..
Can't imagine anyone wanting him as a Pro Staffer though..
The head space measurement on an AI case is less than the parent case, so if the smith just goes into an existing chamber with an AI reamer, you'll end up with nothing but problems.
-BCB
Wow thats really good information! Glad we have such a great pro staff on this website!
Nowdays I cringe whenever I hear the term "Pro Staff"..
Seems like everyone that ever sharpened a stick and gave it to someone else has a team of 'Pro Staffer's"..
Even though he's almost as crotchety as I am, I do tend to listen when I see BCB talk about a specific topic..
Can't imagine anyone wanting him as a Pro Staffer though..
Bayou City Boy
New member
LOL..!! Thanks, Charlie... I truly appreciate the gracious and crotchety non-endorsement.
Just guessing...but based on a couple of recent less-than-friendly PM's from a certain poster, there may be some deep and dark meaning attached when the term pro-staff was used.
As for the competent gunsmith comment; yes, if he is competent, he would know to set the barrel back. "Competent" is the key word here. The entire AI concept is based on a shorter head space measurement on the AI'd case versus the parent case, no matter what cartridge case is being AI'd. Thus the crush fit when chambering a parent case like Rustydust mentioned.
More than one person has had a chamber AI'd and had fits with cases separation because of who did the work... a not-so-competent gunsmith in all cases who was thought to be competent...
Before leaving the rifle, I'd definitely ask how he was going to do the work. And as mentioned, get the action truing done also while the barrel is off of the action if you want it to shoot well. Money well spent...
-BCB
Just guessing...but based on a couple of recent less-than-friendly PM's from a certain poster, there may be some deep and dark meaning attached when the term pro-staff was used.
As for the competent gunsmith comment; yes, if he is competent, he would know to set the barrel back. "Competent" is the key word here. The entire AI concept is based on a shorter head space measurement on the AI'd case versus the parent case, no matter what cartridge case is being AI'd. Thus the crush fit when chambering a parent case like Rustydust mentioned.
More than one person has had a chamber AI'd and had fits with cases separation because of who did the work... a not-so-competent gunsmith in all cases who was thought to be competent...
Before leaving the rifle, I'd definitely ask how he was going to do the work. And as mentioned, get the action truing done also while the barrel is off of the action if you want it to shoot well. Money well spent...
-BCB