Question about the 44 Special?

H

hawkeye reloader

New member
I just picked up an FA 97 in 44 Special. I'm new to reloading for this caliber. I picked up the following bullets-
Missouri bullets Cowboy 7 & 20 (180&210 RNFP I think)
Missouri Elmer Keith (250)
Cast Performance 255 (no gas check)
My question is with only one crimp groove on each bullet, is it correct for both the Special and the Mag? I'm not sure what the minimum or maximum COAL length is for the Special and if I understand correctly, Missouri bullets doesn't provide load data. If I set the COAL by crimping into the groove will this be the correct COAL?
Thanks!
Chris
 
Yes you will be fine I load both mag and special with the same bullet crimped in the same groove.
As far as col your cylinder is pretty much max, I load some 325 gr LBT Cast bullets that are just about flush with the end of my Redhawk cylinder and I also load some 200 gr bullets with black powder for CAS that are crimped over the ogive on a compressed load of black powder,
COL in a revolver isn't quite the same as Rifle ammo as long as it doesn't stick out of the cylinder your pretty much ok
 
The Cowboy #20 is 210g. My brass measures 1.150", pretty close to the trim to length. I profile crimped just under the lip of the crimp groove. My COALs are
Cowboy #7 180g RNFP1.435"
Cowboy #20 210 RNFP 1.445"
Elmer K. 250g 1.480"
Interestingly though, for the Cast Performance 255, I could not get the cartridge to fit into the Freedom Arrms 97 cylinder until my COAL was 1.315". Needless to say, that was much higher than the top of the crimp groove. Has anyone placed a profile crimp above the crimp groove? My plan is to not load and shoot this but to call Grizzly Monday and seek their input.
 
Please forget the profile crimp. Instead of worrying about the COAL and the crimp grooves do this.
The 250 grain bullets try loading them to the crimp groove with 7.5 grains of Unique. That is the Skeeter Skelton load and it is a real dandy . I would call it a medium load.
Now if the 255 grain does not fit into the chamber do not worry. I am going to send you a PM. With instructions on what to do that is safe.
 
I would guess the profile of the cast performance 255 is pretty wide at the nose which limits your OAL.

If you only load for a revolver, you want the crimp to stop bullet jump and aid in combustion. If you load for revolvers and leverguns, you have to worry about set back in the tube as well.

Congrats on the Special, great old round. I run a couple .44-40's and a couple .44 mags.
 
Turns out the issue with some bullets is just the bullet diameter. The cylinder throats are tight in the Freedom Arms, nothing to do with COAL. So much to learn. The folks at Freedom Arms and Cast Performance are great folks to talk to, they were very patient in answering my questions. Thanks for the responses here as well.
 
Cast boolits is a great place to visit. Lots of info on cast shooting.

I run as cast .430 in my .44 mag. With my lead mix, my 429421 mold drops at .430 which shoots well and doesn't lead up.
 
Do you think you want to get into casting ? Or do you want to stay with store bought cast?

Brad is right. There is a lot of info over on castboolits.gunloads.com and also there is singleactions.proboards.com
on cast ,,, after you get enough posts you can go to bullet swappin and trade or buy some bullets to help learn about what your gun likes, and on singleactions there is several 44 aficionados. Good help and advice.
Casting your own is the best way to go. But it is not for everyone. Also please look at Lead Bullet Technologies,, LBT lbtmolds.com Veral Smith has a small book on cast bullet performance that is some of the best info ever. I have it. It Helped. He also has some good molds and designs.
Tried those Plain base 300 grain in the 44 mag Monday. Pushed them too fast and they leaded bad. Will slow them down to bout 900 FPS and use Power Pistol. I need to find out the BHN on them.
 
Sir you have a winner Or Keeper however you want to call it. I would like to see you stretch the legs on that combo, by going to 50 yds and even 100 yds. From the looks of things I think you can do quite well. I see dead deer in your neck of the woods,,, Or whatever else you might want to go after. Congratulations.

I could not read every bit of the details, as the pic is small for that. But your Skeeter load was a fine group, and the lower left group powered by H110 was fine also. Good shooting. And I am sure that you had fun. You don't need dynamite loads to get the job done HUH?
 
I did want to ask about the H110 load. Did you use magnum primers with the H110 ? Sometimes all the powder will not burn, and the results are larger deviation in velocities. I am certainly not going to argue with success, as your target displays. Just curios that is all. If you did not use a mag primer, and plan to use this load in cold weather, then I would suggest that you consider trying the same load with a mag primer. You do not want to get into the field, and have the powder not ignite properly. H110 is a Ball Powder and usually ball powders are best Lit with a Magnum Primer.
FYI: You can test these even in Hot weather by placing the loaded ammo in the freezer overnight and keeping it on Ice ( in a baggie) till the time to shoot it at the range.
I live in Texas of course and have not had these problems, and some guys I know, (that live up north) have not had the problems, as Long as they keep their gun and ammo in warm quarters. Example of using a chest type holster and keeping it under your jacket. Till the animal is spotted.
 
Yes, magnum primer with the 240 XTP and H110. Same load the gun was fired with for the test target. I'm curious what the velocity is because it's a handful and quite unpleasant to shoot as the 97 has a small grip frame for my hands. The Skeeter load has about as much recoil as I care to handle. The bullet is the Missouri 240 Elmer K. The most pleasant hunting load I tried was the Cast Performance 255 with 8.0g of Power Pistol. This bullet needs a stiff thumbing to get the round seated fully into the cylinder throats. Recoil seems mild comparatively. Hope to get some 25 and 50 yard groups and verify velocities soon.
 
Glad to hear about the mag primer. Just for grins and giggles I ran your three loads through Quick Load. All this is going to do is give you some approximations. Things like cylinder gap, crimps, and different primers keep this from being anything, but a guess-tomation.
240 XTP w/16.5 of H110 gives 10451 PSI, 825 FPS, Burns 51% and 11% Ballistic Efficiency.MP4606
240 cast w/7.5 Unique 14958 PSI, 914 FPS, Burns 99% and 27% BE. Muzzle PRS 4168 PSI
255 cast w/8.0 Power Pistol 12215 PSI, 830 FPS, Burns 85% and 20% BE, Muzzle Pressure 4226PSI

As you well know nothing takes the place of a good chronograph and a pressure barrel. But now you have an idea, what is going on with your loads. I did load some 255 cast with 7.0 gr of Unique and it was good too. Here is what Quick load said.
255 cast w/7.0 Unique 14613 PSI, 861 FPS, Burns 99% and 28% BE That proved to be a good load also. I really like the cast Performance bullet. Either load will do you good.
What happens with these different powders is the burn rate primarily causing the greatest differences. The H110 being the slowest burning is still burning towards the muzzle. Look at your pressures that is why I posted them. All of the powder does not burn. H110 is better suited for larger cases, The 44 mag on up. Now you say, Hey! there are holes in your theory Look at the Power Pistol load! Unique is faster on the burn rate and the faster powders usually end up being a little snappier. The medium burning powders usually give a much better performance and are easier on the shooter. HS-6 is one that many people are raving over with the 480 Ruger, recoil is less than H110. I have used a 255 gr cast with the 44 mag and 10gr. of Unique and it is milder than a load of 240XTP and 10 grs of Tite Group. That titegroup is fast burning and real sanppy in the recoil department
Last is your sizing die screwed all the way to the shell holder? and the other thing is, do the shell holder and die match in Brand? I have had this problem with pistol ammo when I loaded some hot. Also I have had 223 shell holders not be correct to size the brass all the way, especially with small base dies. Then again this might not be the problem at all.
It might be that the chambers are tight on the FA and might be restricting the bullet some.
If you can check to see what the chambers measure it might tell you. They could be .4295 or .4305 I do not know without checking them with a set of Pin Gauges. I had some 360 gra be a little difficult in one of my 45s.
Pin gauges come in Plus and minus so depending on what is used will determine what the reading. I have machine shop friends that helped me. And some Gunshops have them. Once I had a gun checked both chamber and use a Field rod on it. The guy did it for free.
 
Didn't think about if the 97 has recessed chambers or not, but it does, and here is some really good info on this. http://singleactions.proboards.com/ go to Reloading and wildcats Click on it and then go to Difficulty seating rounds in recessed chambers.
There is a couple of things I did not cover. I myself need to be reminded once in awhile.
 
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