Question: Bear Defense Gun?
- Thread starter OklahomaKi_yi
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AKwildman
New member
OK I kept my mouth shut long enuf.If your not realy good with a hand gun leave it home.First off you have to be able to react no matter what you choose to carry.I have been bluff charged many times and have seen the real thing once. A full on charge is so fast that the thought of buck shot on top of slugs on top of what ever is kinda crazy. You are going to get ONE shot.I do most of my hunting with a long bow or recurve and I carry a single shot custome made encore with a 10 inch barrel in 458 Win mag.I have had the opertunity to use it on a bear once and it was devestating for the bear anyway.If you choose a long gun I would carry a large bore rifle or a 12 gauge shot gun with 4 buck,4buck,4buck!If its the real deal its going to be close.4buck will saturate the head area and WILL get the job done.If you think that that big animal will be easy to hit try and hit a beach ball bouncing at you at 30 miles an hour.Also keep in mind if its not easy to get in your hands fast you might as well have nothing.Dont worry to much we dont have Bears behind every bush just be carfull dont leave food around camp try and stay in open areas and have some FUN!
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Make it a rifle if you are serious about bear defense.
If you want to buy a handgun or shotgun and want a reason, that's another matter. But for serious bear defense, ditto to Rainshadow and others about a handgun. You have to be really good. Also, compare the impact power (energy at the muzzle for example) of a 44 mag pistol with a 30-30 carbine. Even big handguns are pretty puny.
As to shotguns, none of the few guides I know who go after big bears think much of shotguns as bear defense, with any size shot or slugs. I have carried a 12 gauge with 00 buck for grizzly, and after talking to those guys, I am very glad that I never had to use it. As further loss of confidence in buckshot, I shot a small blacktail deer with 00 buck. The minimal damage and penetration was amazing compared to what I expected. The second shot was a finisher at about 2 feet range into the neck just below the ear. I expected it to half sever the neck but it merely mussed some hair and the buck still struggled for a few seconds. I had to brush the hair back to see the entry wound. It looked like someone had jabbed the deer with a #2 pencil several times in a tight cluster. Inside, the shot did not even break his spine and did not penetrate on through. This was a little chicken necked fork horn.
A shot in the face with smaller shot might blind a big bear and discourage him. Might, depending on range, size of pattern, coolness of shooter, etc. In a real showdown with a big bear, the best repellant is a big diameter rifle bullet. A short, handy rifle is the best tool to deliver it. Those heavy guide guns in stainless sound good, or a cut down bolt rifle. There is no comparison between a handgun or shotgun and a big rifle in terms of power, penetration and damage to the critter.
Buy a rifle and swap it for something else when you get back.
However, a rifle isn't very quick unless you have it in your hands. Gary Shelton, the bear expert from Bella Coola who trains salmon stream workers in bear defense, wrote that many people could not get off a shot at a cardboard "bear" that charged them. (My memory may be off a little on the exact distance but I think it is 15 yards. He has them wading and the bear comes out of the streamside brush on a wire.) If you are in lots of bears, one member of the crew with rifle in hands might be cost effective.
If you want to buy a handgun or shotgun and want a reason, that's another matter. But for serious bear defense, ditto to Rainshadow and others about a handgun. You have to be really good. Also, compare the impact power (energy at the muzzle for example) of a 44 mag pistol with a 30-30 carbine. Even big handguns are pretty puny.
As to shotguns, none of the few guides I know who go after big bears think much of shotguns as bear defense, with any size shot or slugs. I have carried a 12 gauge with 00 buck for grizzly, and after talking to those guys, I am very glad that I never had to use it. As further loss of confidence in buckshot, I shot a small blacktail deer with 00 buck. The minimal damage and penetration was amazing compared to what I expected. The second shot was a finisher at about 2 feet range into the neck just below the ear. I expected it to half sever the neck but it merely mussed some hair and the buck still struggled for a few seconds. I had to brush the hair back to see the entry wound. It looked like someone had jabbed the deer with a #2 pencil several times in a tight cluster. Inside, the shot did not even break his spine and did not penetrate on through. This was a little chicken necked fork horn.
A shot in the face with smaller shot might blind a big bear and discourage him. Might, depending on range, size of pattern, coolness of shooter, etc. In a real showdown with a big bear, the best repellant is a big diameter rifle bullet. A short, handy rifle is the best tool to deliver it. Those heavy guide guns in stainless sound good, or a cut down bolt rifle. There is no comparison between a handgun or shotgun and a big rifle in terms of power, penetration and damage to the critter.
Buy a rifle and swap it for something else when you get back.
However, a rifle isn't very quick unless you have it in your hands. Gary Shelton, the bear expert from Bella Coola who trains salmon stream workers in bear defense, wrote that many people could not get off a shot at a cardboard "bear" that charged them. (My memory may be off a little on the exact distance but I think it is 15 yards. He has them wading and the bear comes out of the streamside brush on a wire.) If you are in lots of bears, one member of the crew with rifle in hands might be cost effective.
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Varmonter
New member
My friend guided fly fishing for years in alaska.
His boss told him don't shoot unless you have clawmarks.
An exaggeration no doubt. But the paperwork one has to fill out for killing a bear in self defence is a mile high.
My friend always said the guides weapon of choice for
bear defense was a sawed off 10 gauge.quick to swing and
he had it tucked in his backpack where he could just
reach behind and grab it if need be. This was his defense
weapon for protecting himself and the fisherman he guided.
He said most of the time they encountered bears they
just yelled loud "hey Bear" and the bears would walk away.
But one never knows.
With that said I would personally think a large big bore
rifle would do the job better.But one has to hit the mark.
Which may not be easy with a 1000 lbs of ugly coming at you
at 40 mph. So a shotgun may be a better deterant. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
This reminds me of the story of the alaskan golf course
where they were having trouble with bears on the course.
The course administrators hired a professional guide to help
instruct the golfers. The Guide told them to wear bells and carry pepper spray.He then asked if they knew the difference
between black bear scat and alaskan brown bear scat?
He told them black bear scat had pieces of twigs and berries in it. Brown bear scat had little bells in it.. and smelled like pepper spray. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
His boss told him don't shoot unless you have clawmarks.
An exaggeration no doubt. But the paperwork one has to fill out for killing a bear in self defence is a mile high.
My friend always said the guides weapon of choice for
bear defense was a sawed off 10 gauge.quick to swing and
he had it tucked in his backpack where he could just
reach behind and grab it if need be. This was his defense
weapon for protecting himself and the fisherman he guided.
He said most of the time they encountered bears they
just yelled loud "hey Bear" and the bears would walk away.
But one never knows.
With that said I would personally think a large big bore
rifle would do the job better.But one has to hit the mark.
Which may not be easy with a 1000 lbs of ugly coming at you
at 40 mph. So a shotgun may be a better deterant. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
This reminds me of the story of the alaskan golf course
where they were having trouble with bears on the course.
The course administrators hired a professional guide to help
instruct the golfers. The Guide told them to wear bells and carry pepper spray.He then asked if they knew the difference
between black bear scat and alaskan brown bear scat?
He told them black bear scat had pieces of twigs and berries in it. Brown bear scat had little bells in it.. and smelled like pepper spray. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
ohiotrapper1984
New member
I would take if you go with the hand gu a 500 S/W havent heard of a bear geting up from that. Are they hiring if so let me know.
Yotes2Call
New member
I would take a new pair of Nike tennis shoes and a big thick peanut butter sandwich.
When the bear comes, start hauling butt with the Nikes on and slap the peanut butter sandwich on the back of your buddy as you trip him on your way by....
No worries.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
But, for reals. I have friends that guide up there and that are bush pilots. They all carry 12 gauge shotguns with pistol grips and #4 buck....
When the bear comes, start hauling butt with the Nikes on and slap the peanut butter sandwich on the back of your buddy as you trip him on your way by....
No worries.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
But, for reals. I have friends that guide up there and that are bush pilots. They all carry 12 gauge shotguns with pistol grips and #4 buck....
bret250
New member
I dont know much about bears, seems we dont have many down here in texas, put i do own a marlin guide gun in 45/70, and i know it packs a punch, i cant see to much getting up after getting hit by it. I was kinda dissapointed with the factor cartridges though. Then did a lil research and found out that they can be loaded alot hotter so i now i load my own for it and it is a beast. i wont try and be tough about it and say it dont kick, bc it does trust me. I have 4 power scope on it and it has got my eyebrow a few times, but im a lil guy (5'6" 165) and still enjoy shooting a few times every now and then.
NateDog
New member
bret250 stated a very good point. A 45-70 (with factory loads) is not all that impressive. A 454 loaded hot has similar ballistics. I know a biologist that does studies on eiders up in the arctic and they all carry compact pump shotguns for protection against polar bears. He actually had to shoot one about 10 years back when it tore into his tent. He dropped it at his feet while he was still in his sleeping bag. The simplicity of shooting a shotgun matched with good solid knockdown power with either a slug or buckshot at close range would give the nod in using it. Even in an intense situation, shooting a shotgun would still come second nature on how to aim it at 10 yards or less. I have missed deer at 10yards with my rifle when I was excited and I would have no faith in my pistol marksmanship when faced with a charging bear, even though I am good in range situations. You can't stop what you can't hit.
TheSollyLama
New member
I think you are in danger from a bear only if you are gutting an animal and a hungry bear wants to eat at the buffet. I have been close to bears many times, including while camping unarmed. I made an insurance claim on my truck once for a bear clawing up my paint trying to get inside to the food I had locked up- while i was 20 feet away in a tent.
In any case they were within 50 feet, merely yelling at a bear has sent it packing looking for an easier meal.
I hunt bear (so far unsuccessfully) with a black powder rifle. I like to have a partner with a 12 gauge with slugs. but I have hunted bear alone with nothing but a .357 snub nosed revolver on my side. I know- it wont accomplish much but it's that or a .40 S&W compact or a Walther P-38.....
In my experience, which I never claim is all encompassing or superior to anyone else's, I've never had any bear do anything but high tail it away from the human.....
Also- my only experience comes from Black Bears. I have never seen a grizzly or polar bear in the wild.
In any case they were within 50 feet, merely yelling at a bear has sent it packing looking for an easier meal.
I hunt bear (so far unsuccessfully) with a black powder rifle. I like to have a partner with a 12 gauge with slugs. but I have hunted bear alone with nothing but a .357 snub nosed revolver on my side. I know- it wont accomplish much but it's that or a .40 S&W compact or a Walther P-38.....
In my experience, which I never claim is all encompassing or superior to anyone else's, I've never had any bear do anything but high tail it away from the human.....
Also- my only experience comes from Black Bears. I have never seen a grizzly or polar bear in the wild.
wildbillb02
New member
Yotes2call,
That reminds me of what a guy once told me. All you need is a 22. long rifle for bear. When the bear comes after you shoot your buddy in the knee and take off. You dont have to be the fastest only not the slowest.
That reminds me of what a guy once told me. All you need is a 22. long rifle for bear. When the bear comes after you shoot your buddy in the knee and take off. You dont have to be the fastest only not the slowest.
DanOH
New member
If you go with a handgun, I too would recommend the S&W .500 X-Frame. I shot a deer with one on video and the results were pretty impressive. The load was a 350 gr. Sierra chrono'd at 1760 fps.That load will get your attention as well as the attention of whatever unfortunate critter you are shooting at.
sweatybetty
New member
marlin 1895 lever action 45-70 with 500 gr. nice, short brush gun
bgreen
New member
Please leave the buck shot at home, or carry it for shooting coyotes, deer, etc. If your carrying for bear protection hard cast slugs are your best bet IMO. Brenneke slugs are very popular up here.
Buckshot = 250 ft/lb or less!
Here is a good read on this very subject... http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=7511
Buckshot = 250 ft/lb or less!
Here is a good read on this very subject... http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=7511
I got a 480 ruger that is not untolerable to shoot I also have a guide gun that I got a the bear proof ejector and the wild west trigger the trigger is awsome. I would get a guide gun and get some of these and a ghost ring sight http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
You can get hot loaded 45/70 rounds that will give you more knockdown power. I would not get the .450 marlin because of availablity of ammo just get the right ammo for the 45/70.
You can get hot loaded 45/70 rounds that will give you more knockdown power. I would not get the .450 marlin because of availablity of ammo just get the right ammo for the 45/70.
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