"Custorm No Service" from FIST, INC Holsters

stiff neck

stiff neck

New member
I sent my brand new FIST IWB tuckable kydex hoster, model K8 IWB tuckable, back the week before labor day. There are two screws near the muzzle that attatch the IWB tuckable arm. The muzzle of my Kahr P9 was touching the screw. Metal-to-metal contact is BAD!

Also, the fit was very very loose. There was at least 1/2 inch of movement frontward and backward inside the holster. On top of that, they sent me the wrong belt loop and the wrong color too. My invoice clearly specifies something other than what they sent me.

I called today and he asked me if I was handy and if I have a heat gun to re-shape the kydex. I told him no. Even if I did have one, I didn't pay them $75 to ship me a piece of kydex so I could shape it myself. He said send it back.

It took a little over 2 weeks to get here. Hopefully this won't take too much longer. Everything I've seen about FIST looks really good, so I probably just got a bad piece of work. But I have to say, this is not the best first impression... I'll give them another chance to make it right. It's almost like they sent me the wrong order...

Here's a pic
14520fist_1-med.jpg
 
*UPDATE*
I returned the defect holster along with a polite letter and pictures detailing the issues that needed to be addressed with the holster they sent me. UPS confirmed that FIST recieved it on Wed 9/7/04.

I recieved the holster back today, exactly 7 days after they recieved the returned package. There are still problems with the holster! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

They sent the same holster back to me, but they did attempt to "reshape" it. The retention screws near the muzzle no longer make direct contact with the gun, but the clearence is only about 1/16 of an inch. Applying a small amount of pressure to the outside of the holster results in metal-to-metal contact between the screw and the muzzle. This is an IWB holster, and surely the gun will rub on the screws while the holster is being worn. There is even more wiggle room in the holster now, making that problem even worse since the gun easily rocks backward and forward inside the holster. Refer to pictures.
14520h1-med.jpg

14520h2-med.jpg

FIST did replace the belt loop with the correct loop that I ordered- brown leather with snaps instead of black solid. However, the brown dye is uneven and really stands out. It looks like a 1st grader used a magic marker to color it brown. The color of the leather is not an issue by itself, but just another problem with the service.
14520h3-med.jpg

In the letter I sent them, I asked that I be reimbursed for having to ship the holster back to them for correction. But they did not address this issue. There was no refund and no note or comment on the invoice they sent back.

So now I'm just mad. Honestly, I was looking forward to wearing this holster from FIST because of all the good things I've read about them. I really like how thin their kydex holster are. But this is really pissing me off. Tomorrow I will once again ship the defected holster back to FIST. I suppose I'll call them first, but really I think I'm done with them. I spent $70 on this holster expecting something nice, but it has turned out to be a real pain.

And I'll probably have to fight this with my bank since FIST demands a 10% transaction fee for credit card returns- which I am NOT going to pay. Especially after having to ship the holster back to them TWICE on my own expense on top of paying for the original shipping cost for them to send it to me from the factory.

You know, I would really like to give them the benefit of the doubt because I really want the holster. But how many times do I have to turn my other cheek? Seriously, if they couldn't get it right the second time, what reason do I have to believe that they'll get it right the third time? The only experience I have with them is the one I'm having right now. And why should I have to fork out the extra time and money for shipping for them to correct their own mistakes? That's just wrong.

I was really dissappointed right off the bat today when I saw that the holster in the box was the same exact one they sent me the first time, just slightly altered. The rub marks on the screws are even still there. That's pinching pennies and screwing the customer. They should have sent me a "new" one.
 
*UPDATE*
I called Jim Murnak- the boss (owner?) at FIST holsters, and explained my problem. I was polite and as professional as I could possibly be, and I never used profanity or called him any names. I probably spent a good 15 minutes on the phone with him. He hung up on me the first time so I had to call him right back.

He said the screws on the holster would not rub on my gun since pressing with my fingers causes more pressure than wearing the holster inside my pants. I told him that it takes VERY little pressure to get the screws to touch the gun. I also told him that the gun moves back and forth inside the holster about 1/2 inch which by itself is not acceptable and also contributes to the first problem.

He hesitated and asked "So what do you want?" I told him I'd like them to ship me a NEW holster within the next day and I'll ship this defective one back to them. That way I don't have to wait for them to recieve this holster before they ship a new one out. I also asked for a refund on the shipping since this is the SECOND time I had to ship the holster back to them.

He said no. He's NOT going to send me a NEW holster. The only thing he is willing to do is attempt to fix the old one (again) and then send it back. He said he would not reimburse me for the shipping. He said customers return their stuff "all the time for different reasons and we never reimburse for shipping". I explained that I am returning the holster for the SECOND time because of THEIR error, not because I changed my mind. The holster is DEFECTIVE, why should I have to pay? He finally reluctantly agreed to reimburse me for the 2nd return shipping but not the first one.

He still refused to send a new holster unless there was no way they could fix the old one. I told him that I already outlined those problems in a letter the first time I sent it back to them, and they failed to fix it. I asked him if he personally worked on the gun and he said "Yes, well I talked to the guy who worked on it". I already went out of my way to give them the benefit of the doubt by giving them a sencond chance to fix it, but they did not. Now I would like a NEW holster, not a repaired old hoster. He said no and that I was being unreasonable.

I told him that I had heard lots of good things about their holsters and I really wanted their product, but that was not satisfactory to me as a paying customer and I would like a full refund. He said "Well, ok". And immediately hung up before I could say anything else.

I called back and asked if he was going to pin me with the 10% transaction fee for credit card returns like it says on the invoice. He said yes, because I was the one returning the holster. He again offered to try to fix the old hoster to see what went wrong and send it back. He said he could space the screws 1/4 inch away if that's what I wanted. We went around in the same circle all over again about how I'm not trying to get some custom holster made and I don't want to be treated special, I just want the product they offer. I'm not returning the holster because I'm picky, I'm returning it because it's defective!

He said I was being unreasonable and that I should give them an opportunity to fix the problem. I told him that I already DID give them an opportunity to fix the PROBLEM(S) but they did not. He again said I was being unreasonable. I asked him exactly how many times is reasonable for me to ship back a holster at my own expense so that they could make it right? How many times? Three times, how about four? His response was "As many times as it takes".

I told him that was not acceptable to me as a paying customer. They are being unreasonable by not working with me. He was getting really mad by now, almost as mad as I was, but I never cursed at him or anything like that. He raised his voice a little first, and I did too, but neither of us yelled.

I asked why they can't just send me a NEW holster so I don't have to wait while they try to fix the old one. He said because they need to see what's wrong with it, otherwise they might send me another bad one and I'd be stuck with it. He said he would send me a new holster but with no return priveleges. No way I'm gonna do that! I said this is not the first holster you have made for a Kahr P9, is that correct? "Yes". So don't you have a mold or something, why do you need to see the old holster?

At this point he went off about the variance between different guns of the same model. He said manufacturers make their guns to different dimensions all the time, even the same models in the same batch. It's very common. For example Colt pistols. He said my Kahr P9 probably has different dimensions than the mold they have. Since the holster they sent me was too loose, they need to see what the problem is instead of just sending me a new one that might have the same problem. I understand what he's saying, although I doubt Kahr varies the dimensions on their precision machined slides and polymer frames enough to cause 1/2 inch of wobble room inside this holster.

I told him I just wanted a FULL refund and I want to make sure he's not going to charge me the 10% return fee. Now he starts hesitating and not answering my question. I told him that I want to know because I may have to just file this with my bank to deney the transaction and I need a response from you. He finally said very grudgingly "I guess not", and again said I was being unreasonable. I asked him if he was going to refund my shipping cost for either the first time I returned the holster or the second time. He said "No". Now he's not going to refund the shipping cost for either one.

I told him I was going to share my bad experience with FIST holsters with as many people as I could. He asked if I was going to tell the truth and I said yes of course. I don't trust that he'll refund the FULL amount I paid- $75.20, not including the extra $13 for shipping it back twice, so I'm just going to deal directly with the bank after I ship the holster back today. Oh, and I never even brought up the color variance on the leather belt loop, didn't have time...

How's THAT for "customer no service" in America?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Sorry about your misfortune, but thanks for sharing it. Its these type of post that help me decide where to purchase my items.

I'm just curious PM Moderators. If something like this happens with an advatisor of this board and the unpleased customer post about. Will it be deleted?

Todd
 
AK, I would think not, or at least would hope not. All that would be asked or should be asked is that the person gives the company the opportinity to make good on their product before airing their dirty laundry here on the forum. The business (not just PM advertisers) diserve that much.
Now, I must ask, Do you have a problem with an advertiser here?

Edited because i flunked english class. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Doesn't that just piss you off? I can't stand dealings like that. I have had a few myself and it just kills because you have time invested figuring out what you want, making sure it will fit the bill, paying hard earned money for it and then when it isn't how it should be the company won't take care of it. For a $70 holster I would be damn picky especially for Kydex. If you get your money back I have to suggest a Milt Sparks VM II. I have a couple of these and they are top notch as is there customer service. If you want Kydex I have heard great things about Sidearmor. Anyway I will stay away from FIST and will warn as many as I can. The pictures alone say too much about there workmanship. I am sure the people at GlockTalk would be interested in your story. Hope everything works out!
 
It's amazing to me that a company does stuff like this. All they need to do is treat a few people bad, or good as the case may be and it will be on the WWW for millions of folks to see. I for one will never buy any FIST product. There are companies out there that will treat you right. I suspect that these folks that do people wrong will eventually go under. The companies that treat people right will grow and prosper. Look at Mike Dillon and Foxpro. We've all read about his excellent customer service. I suspect more units have been sold by word of mouth, or posts on message boards because of his reputation for customer service than any other reason.
Stiffneck, I'd definitely dispute any and all charges on your credit card. They sold you a defective product and haven't made it right.
 
These kind of posts just proves the point that bad customer service is MUCH more expensive to the dealer than a no-questions-asked-we-just-want-a-satisfied-customer approach. Whether FIST knows it or not, your post cost them 100X what it would have cost for them to just take care of you.
 
Sorry to hear of the bad time with FIST. When a company stands behind their products it's always good to hear of it, I think we should share those. I also like to hear of the few bad ones as well. I also think we should voice our displeasure when not dealt with fairly by a company. After all, you paid for a quality holster, $75.00 isn't a cheapie, though that looks a whole bunch closer to a $15.00 holster. Let me leave you with two words..............
MILT SPARKS! If you're in a hurry for a new one Lightning Arms Sports usually has a few in stock. They have a website.
 
Yeah those Milt Sparks holsters are hard to beat. As for good experiences I had one happen a few weeks ago that is just the opposite of FIST inc. I bought a really expensive pair of boots from Whites Boots. The store where I bought them measured my feet and sent them the measurements so they could put me in the right size or custom build a pair. I got them and the left boot just never fit right but I figured after some wear they would just break in. After 8 months of wearing them they were still bothering me so I reluctantly took them in to the store where I got them. They shipped them back no questions asked. Whites said they would fix them but they wanted me to pay $85 to resoul them. They shipped them back again at there expense. I wore them for another week and they still bothered me so we sent them back again. Now at this point I am kind of pissed. I paid a lot of money for these boots and the other pair I have are so comfortable. Hunting season is coming and I want my boots! I could not believe it when they called me to tell me they would be sending me a brand new pair! I didn't have to ask or make a big deal or anything. They told me that they didn't do the job right on the first return and that they wanted to make sure I was taken care of. Holy Crap! I wore these boots without complaining for eight months and when I finally said something they bent over backwards for me. Now that's good service. Thanks Whites Boots!
 
If you want a kydex AWB Blade-Tech is still my personal favorite. Great product and a company that understands customer service. Milt Sparks also has a great product but there's usually a long lead time on any holster that your dealer doesn't have in stock.
 
If you go with Blade-Tech, get Kydex, not the cheaper (and much inferior!) injection molded polymer/plastic. You probably already know that though, sorry to plug something you're knowledgable about.
 
Just don't pay the CC charge. Ship the holster back with a letter, then call the CC company and file a protest w/ them. I had the same problem with another company, and the CC company deducted it from their account and sent me a full credit. 2 days later the vendor called me and apologized all over the place, was going to make it good-whatever I wanted. I sd. I will never buy from them again and hung up.
Now, if you want an excellent holster for IWB carry, get a Milt Sparks Executive Companion. This is the best I have found and have been using mine for years. Fit and comfort is excellent, and I won't use any other. Just make sure you have a good gunbelt, and that goes for any holster you use.
 
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