Ramshot X-Terminator ? Update.
- Thread starter Hangtime
- Start date
Michigander
New member
I'm in the process of working up a load with it using the new Barnes Varmint Grenade. Out of my Bushmaster I am getting just under 3/4" at 100yrd. I loaded some more + & - from that load to see if I can tighten up up a tad. Works real well for me.
K_Hini
New member
sorry to highjack the thread but,
michigander: are you using the load data for a 40gr bullet or the VLC bullet? I loaded some grenades up with h335 but have yet to get out there and try them. I have been eyeing the xterminator powder for a while but still am going to try the h335 first. let me know!!!!!
michigander: are you using the load data for a 40gr bullet or the VLC bullet? I loaded some grenades up with h335 but have yet to get out there and try them. I have been eyeing the xterminator powder for a while but still am going to try the h335 first. let me know!!!!!
Linefinder
New member
I never could get 40 grain VMaxes to shoot accurately in any rifle I tried them in. So, I shot 55 VMaxes with decent results using Varget and H322. Then a friend gave me a pound of Xterminator to try and suggested a load for it.
27 grains of XTerminator under a 40 grain VMax clocks 3705 from my Lilja barreled Win Heavy Varmint, and groups in the .3's. Though lighter than the 55's, I'm pushing them about 450 fps faster than I was pushing the 55's, so trajectory and wind drift resistance are actually a tad better with the 40's.
Xterminator and 40 grain VMaxes are now my favored pdog load, and I'll be glad when I've finally shot up all the 55's I had previously loaded.
BTW.....Xterminator meters like water. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Mike
27 grains of XTerminator under a 40 grain VMax clocks 3705 from my Lilja barreled Win Heavy Varmint, and groups in the .3's. Though lighter than the 55's, I'm pushing them about 450 fps faster than I was pushing the 55's, so trajectory and wind drift resistance are actually a tad better with the 40's.
Xterminator and 40 grain VMaxes are now my favored pdog load, and I'll be glad when I've finally shot up all the 55's I had previously loaded.
BTW.....Xterminator meters like water. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Mike
Michigander
New member
KH, I looked at the max charge for both of those and took a safe charge for the 40. I got that group using that initial charge of 26.4. Here is a picture of what it looked like.
Hangtime
New member
Thanks for the replies.
I went out this afternoon to test some loads. Wind was absolutely howling out of the south, guessing 30 mph, with gusts being higher. So, I set up to shoot due north, with the wind.
Based on what I saw today, it looks like in the 23.8 gr. neighborhood using 50 gr. Speer HP. I'm going to have to do some fine tuning in a moderate wind to be sure though. That's a real problem trying to get a day with just a light breeze here on the high plains.
I went out this afternoon to test some loads. Wind was absolutely howling out of the south, guessing 30 mph, with gusts being higher. So, I set up to shoot due north, with the wind.
Based on what I saw today, it looks like in the 23.8 gr. neighborhood using 50 gr. Speer HP. I'm going to have to do some fine tuning in a moderate wind to be sure though. That's a real problem trying to get a day with just a light breeze here on the high plains.
WiseOldYote
New member
It is a great metering powder for a progressive loader. IMHO I think it burns cleaner than other powders. I own an AR so cleaning it has been easier than it was the past. I shoot 52 to 69gr. bullets with it and have been very happy with the groups for each bullet. Good choice /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.
todbartell
New member
27 grains behind a 40 grain Vmax = 3575 fps
28 grains behind 40 gr varminator = 3680 fps
26.6 grains behind a 50 gr Speer TnT = 3385 fps
25 grains behind 55 gr Nosler BT = 3085 fps
seemed like an accurate powder in my 223 (Model 700 LVSF)
28 grains behind 40 gr varminator = 3680 fps
26.6 grains behind a 50 gr Speer TnT = 3385 fps
25 grains behind 55 gr Nosler BT = 3085 fps
seemed like an accurate powder in my 223 (Model 700 LVSF)
Hangtime
New member
I had read somewhere that X-Terminator was a very clean burning powder, and initially that was the reason I wanted to try it.
To say the ease of metering was a pleasant suprise would be a great understatement! I was really shocked how well it metered.
I won't know for sure till I can get a day with a mild breeze, but looking at the loads others have posted, what I came up with in the field today appears kind of weak. I don't have a chronograph, and was strictly looking at fired brass, and group size. I started at 23 gr. and worked up in .2 gr. increments. By the time I got to 24 gr. the wind was blowing so bad, I started feeling like the group size was being affected, so I quit at 24.2.
Is anyone else here pushing a 50gr? If so, what was your most accurate load?
To say the ease of metering was a pleasant suprise would be a great understatement! I was really shocked how well it metered.
I won't know for sure till I can get a day with a mild breeze, but looking at the loads others have posted, what I came up with in the field today appears kind of weak. I don't have a chronograph, and was strictly looking at fired brass, and group size. I started at 23 gr. and worked up in .2 gr. increments. By the time I got to 24 gr. the wind was blowing so bad, I started feeling like the group size was being affected, so I quit at 24.2.
Is anyone else here pushing a 50gr? If so, what was your most accurate load?
Hangtime
New member
Quote:
27 grains behind a 40 grain Vmax = 3575 fps
28 grains behind 40 gr varminator = 3680 fps
26.6 grains behind a 50 gr Speer TnT = 3385 fps
25 grains behind 55 gr Nosler BT = 3085 fps
seemed like an accurate powder in my 223 (Model 700 LVSF)
I was working on my above post while yours was being posted. Now I'm really puzzled with what I came up with today. That's almost 3 gr. difference with the same bullet.
I thought I was starting to see primer flattening at 24 gr, but maybe I need to take a closer look.
Do you all think there could be 3 gr. difference between rifles, using the same bullet?
27 grains behind a 40 grain Vmax = 3575 fps
28 grains behind 40 gr varminator = 3680 fps
26.6 grains behind a 50 gr Speer TnT = 3385 fps
25 grains behind 55 gr Nosler BT = 3085 fps
seemed like an accurate powder in my 223 (Model 700 LVSF)
I was working on my above post while yours was being posted. Now I'm really puzzled with what I came up with today. That's almost 3 gr. difference with the same bullet.
I thought I was starting to see primer flattening at 24 gr, but maybe I need to take a closer look.
Do you all think there could be 3 gr. difference between rifles, using the same bullet?
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Hangtime
New member
Had an opportunity late Thursday evening with a milder wind, so went back into the field to test some more loads with the X-Terminator. I had also switched to CCI 450 primers for these loads.
Based on that, 24.4 gr. produced the most accurate groups that day. I stopped at 24.8 gr, as that's the largest charge I had loaded. Brass and primers look OK to me on all loads. I know every firearm is different in terms of what will produce the most accurate load. Knowing that, I'm still a little bit puzzled as this load is still over 2 full gr. short of what todbartell is using with the same bullet, though he's using a different firearm. I'm using an AR 20" HBAR 1/9, with a Wylde chamber. That seems like quite a bit of load difference to me. What is your opinion on this?
I've been using just one other powder prior to this, bought a lot of it and was lucky to hit the sweet spot very quickly with that powder, so I've never had to do much load testing prior to buying the X-Terminator.
So, I'm looking for some answers from the reloading experts here. On test loads I load in .2 gr increments. Once you find a load that shoots decent groups, is it typical that when groups start to open up with larger loads, they will continue to open up relative to the increased charge? Or can they open up for say a couple of increased charges, then start getting tighter again, even though the charge is larger?
I have tried to make this post easy to comprehend, but if I've failed to do this please let me know what is unclear, and I'll do my best to correct that.
I think I'll be very happy with this powder once I get everything dialed in.
I do appreciate all the helpful replies so far, and if I can get a few more answers I'm confident I can put this project to bed.
T.I.A.
Based on that, 24.4 gr. produced the most accurate groups that day. I stopped at 24.8 gr, as that's the largest charge I had loaded. Brass and primers look OK to me on all loads. I know every firearm is different in terms of what will produce the most accurate load. Knowing that, I'm still a little bit puzzled as this load is still over 2 full gr. short of what todbartell is using with the same bullet, though he's using a different firearm. I'm using an AR 20" HBAR 1/9, with a Wylde chamber. That seems like quite a bit of load difference to me. What is your opinion on this?
I've been using just one other powder prior to this, bought a lot of it and was lucky to hit the sweet spot very quickly with that powder, so I've never had to do much load testing prior to buying the X-Terminator.
So, I'm looking for some answers from the reloading experts here. On test loads I load in .2 gr increments. Once you find a load that shoots decent groups, is it typical that when groups start to open up with larger loads, they will continue to open up relative to the increased charge? Or can they open up for say a couple of increased charges, then start getting tighter again, even though the charge is larger?
I have tried to make this post easy to comprehend, but if I've failed to do this please let me know what is unclear, and I'll do my best to correct that.
I think I'll be very happy with this powder once I get everything dialed in.
I do appreciate all the helpful replies so far, and if I can get a few more answers I'm confident I can put this project to bed.
T.I.A.
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K_Hini
New member
what is everyone using for an oal on these bullets I have a win stealth and this varmint grenade hits my lands at 2.225" which I thought was odd! I loaded them at 2.255" and put it in and closed the bolt the bullet was pushed down to 2.225". I loaded them up at 2.200" for finished product and am going to go shooting tomarrow so let me know if I am doing something wrong!
Hangtime: my book says that you can go up to 26.0gr of the xterminator. that is using the 50gr vlc data (which barnes says that you could use) I would work up to that and see what happens. if you see signs of pressure stop I would give it a shot.
Hangtime: my book says that you can go up to 26.0gr of the xterminator. that is using the 50gr vlc data (which barnes says that you could use) I would work up to that and see what happens. if you see signs of pressure stop I would give it a shot.
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You are not going to be able to shoot the same max loads in an AR they you use in a boltgun! You need to check loading manuals for AR loading not the boltgun loading charts. If you use a max boltgun charge in your AR, you are going to have a problem. Hopefully, not serious.
Hangtime
New member
Quote:
You are not going to be able to shoot the same max loads in an AR they you use in a boltgun! You need to check loading manuals for AR loading not the boltgun loading charts. If you use a max boltgun charge in your AR, you are going to have a problem. Hopefully, not serious.
I fully realize that, and acknowledged same in my other post. It was the large difference in charges between firearms that was my question, and piqued my curiousity.
From my other post:
I'm still a little bit puzzled as this load is still over 2 full gr. short of what todbartell is using with the same bullet, though he's using a different firearm. I'm using an AR 20" HBAR 1/9, with a Wylde chamber. That seems like quite a bit of load difference to me.
So really my only question on this point, asked mostly out of curiousity, is it common to see that large of a charge difference between bolt guns, and AR's of the same caliber using the same powder and bullet?
Also from my other post:
On test loads I load in .2 gr increments. Once you find a load that shoots decent groups, is it typical that when groups start to open up with larger loads, they will continue to open up relative to the increased charge? Or can they open up for say a couple of increased charges, then start getting tighter again, even though the charge is larger?
Again, curious about the answer to this one. I find reloading to be not only a very fascinating, enjoyable subject, but also one full of "quirks", which can often leave me with more questions than I started with. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I just wish I had started reloading when I was a young man, instead of an old one.
So if some of you could answer these two questions, and satisfy my curiousity, I would be grateful to you.
You are not going to be able to shoot the same max loads in an AR they you use in a boltgun! You need to check loading manuals for AR loading not the boltgun loading charts. If you use a max boltgun charge in your AR, you are going to have a problem. Hopefully, not serious.
I fully realize that, and acknowledged same in my other post. It was the large difference in charges between firearms that was my question, and piqued my curiousity.
From my other post:
I'm still a little bit puzzled as this load is still over 2 full gr. short of what todbartell is using with the same bullet, though he's using a different firearm. I'm using an AR 20" HBAR 1/9, with a Wylde chamber. That seems like quite a bit of load difference to me.
So really my only question on this point, asked mostly out of curiousity, is it common to see that large of a charge difference between bolt guns, and AR's of the same caliber using the same powder and bullet?
Also from my other post:
On test loads I load in .2 gr increments. Once you find a load that shoots decent groups, is it typical that when groups start to open up with larger loads, they will continue to open up relative to the increased charge? Or can they open up for say a couple of increased charges, then start getting tighter again, even though the charge is larger?
Again, curious about the answer to this one. I find reloading to be not only a very fascinating, enjoyable subject, but also one full of "quirks", which can often leave me with more questions than I started with. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I just wish I had started reloading when I was a young man, instead of an old one.
So if some of you could answer these two questions, and satisfy my curiousity, I would be grateful to you.
Linefinder
New member
Hangtime,
I don't own an AR platform, so I can't really address your question exactly. But, Quickload internal ballistics software offers some useful information regarding pressure/velocity as it relates to differing water capacities of cases within the same chambering.
For the .223 Rem, the "default" H2O capacity of the .223 Rem (SAAMI) case is 28.8 grains of water. 27 grains of XTerm yields 57,544 psi max pressure and a velocity of 3828 fps with a 40 grain VMax from a 26" barrel.
One of my .223's has an actual H2O capacity of 30.90 grains. The load of 27 grains of XTerm chronos 3705 with a calculated max psi of 48,984. This is actual.
The same powder and same load yields a slightly different MV, and a substantial difference in max psi. In fact, the first example is about 2500 psi over SAAMI recommended max.
Chamber dimensions play a critical role in the end result of a load...as do a myriad of other factors, including throat/bore condition.
I know this didn't really answer your question, but it's an interesting example of differences in performance based simply on case capacity, let alone completely different species of firearms.
Mike
I don't own an AR platform, so I can't really address your question exactly. But, Quickload internal ballistics software offers some useful information regarding pressure/velocity as it relates to differing water capacities of cases within the same chambering.
For the .223 Rem, the "default" H2O capacity of the .223 Rem (SAAMI) case is 28.8 grains of water. 27 grains of XTerm yields 57,544 psi max pressure and a velocity of 3828 fps with a 40 grain VMax from a 26" barrel.
One of my .223's has an actual H2O capacity of 30.90 grains. The load of 27 grains of XTerm chronos 3705 with a calculated max psi of 48,984. This is actual.
The same powder and same load yields a slightly different MV, and a substantial difference in max psi. In fact, the first example is about 2500 psi over SAAMI recommended max.
Chamber dimensions play a critical role in the end result of a load...as do a myriad of other factors, including throat/bore condition.
I know this didn't really answer your question, but it's an interesting example of differences in performance based simply on case capacity, let alone completely different species of firearms.
Mike
Hangtime
New member
Mike,
Thanks for the reply. Very interesting information, and I appreciate you taking the time to post it.
As I said before I find reloading to be such a fascinating subject. And so many variables! I enjoy a challenge, and reloading can certainly present that.
Totally OT, but I may be in Colorado Springs in a few days. Is there a big box firearms / supplies store there? Also, what is the best independently owned store there IYO?
Once again, thank you.
Thanks for the reply. Very interesting information, and I appreciate you taking the time to post it.
As I said before I find reloading to be such a fascinating subject. And so many variables! I enjoy a challenge, and reloading can certainly present that.
Totally OT, but I may be in Colorado Springs in a few days. Is there a big box firearms / supplies store there? Also, what is the best independently owned store there IYO?
Once again, thank you.
Linefinder
New member
There is a Sportsman's Warehouse in CS, located on the north side of Platte Avenue just after you pass Powers Avenue from the east. From the other direction, it would be Circle Avenue from the west. SW on Platte is located almost halfway between Circle and Powers. The firearm selection at SW is pretty decent, though their reloading department has been kinda iffy for the past 3 months.
The Shooter's Den is located on Fillmore Ave, about 2 blocks east of I-25. They have a "fair" selection of new and used firearms, and a "better than average" selection of reloading components.
Specialty Sports is located in the SE part of town, and to be honest, I don't go there much...(I'm not real keen on taking "attitude" from employees who don't know IMR 4350 and H4350 are two different animals... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif). They do, however, have a very large selection of firearms, especially if you're in the market for the latest and greatest "tactical" gizmos. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
Other than those, I'd suggest Gander Mountain in Denver, and of course, MidwayUSA.com is always outstanding.
Mike
The Shooter's Den is located on Fillmore Ave, about 2 blocks east of I-25. They have a "fair" selection of new and used firearms, and a "better than average" selection of reloading components.
Specialty Sports is located in the SE part of town, and to be honest, I don't go there much...(I'm not real keen on taking "attitude" from employees who don't know IMR 4350 and H4350 are two different animals... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif). They do, however, have a very large selection of firearms, especially if you're in the market for the latest and greatest "tactical" gizmos. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
Other than those, I'd suggest Gander Mountain in Denver, and of course, MidwayUSA.com is always outstanding.
Mike