RCBS M1000

[Rock Knocker]

My GemPro is 16 years old and I damaged the cord, thats been my excuse for not reloading lately. I was just at the store and I bought a RCBS M1000 for $170, right beside it was the RCBS $40 digital scale. I liked the idea of simplicity and no cords or batteries, thats why I got the balance beam. Taking it out of the box and messing around calibrating and playing with it a bit, im not the happiest with my discission, I could return this and get the $40 scale. They also had a $170 digital Hornady scale with 0.1gr resolution, im used to the GemPro 0.02gr resolution...

How many of you use one of these balance beam scales? Even when I made 0.1gr adjustments on the scale it was hard for me to notice much change. I started out loading Fclass and I load my .40 s&w the same way, I dont need that accuracy anymore but Im picky. Way back with my first reloading kit I got a super cheap Lee balance beam scale, it doesnt look to me like the M1000 is a whole lot better, I dont think its worth $170.

I havent tried it on powder yet but I question what kind of repeatability I can get with 25gr 223 charges and 7grs of powder for the .40.

 

[hm1996]

IDK, but looks like a lot of frills and doubt very seriously if it will do anything that the old style RCBS, Redding, Lyman balance beam scales would do. Used this old Redding since 1958; 100% reliable and only two weights to fool with.

also use this old RCBS which works equally well

If I could return the $170 scale, I'd personally pick up the current version of the above and buy powder with the $100 left over, but that's just me.

 

[crapshoot]

Used a lee beam scale for a while, then switched to a dillon electronic scale for a long time. Got tired of having to recalibrate all the time and switched back to an rcbs beam scale. Now using an rcbs charge master scale/dispenser.

 

[hm1996]

I understand the newer powder dispensers are much better than the first ones out. I had one of the first balance beam automatic dispensers that came out and found it was about as quick to trickle into my old balance beam scales on my long range loads. The early tricklers would often overshoot set charge, especially with long grain stick powders and I could control charges more accurately by hand.
That being said, found little value in weighing charges for ammo to be used out to 300 yards, and not sure that the advantage @ 600 and beyond might very well have been the mental confidence in the loads rather than an actual advantage once the accuracy node was identified on the loads since
I could throw +/- .1 gr with the measure.

 

[Rock Knocker]

Im sure its accurate enough but I dont think this 1000gr scale is going to be ideal for 25.x gr. And beside that, its pure Chinesium, I fumbled the pan a bit while calibrating and I squeezed a bit harder and bent the pan with my finger tips, its clearly made from the cheapest stamped and pot metals, the stamped calibration weight area has stamped threads on it I think I already started to strip threads while i put it back together after calibration. It certainly isnt $170 in build quality.

 

[Rock Knocker]

The GemPro 250s are discontinued, i see they have a GemPro 300 but I dont see any for sale. A couple months ago I found a website that had GemPro 250s for $165, I waited a few days, I didnt even close the web tab, when I checked back they were sold out.

I dont know what is so hard to repoduce about those. I see Hornady now has a lab type scale with .02gr res if I remember correct for $400ish, thats not bad if the electronic are anything like the GemPro and Hornady put some build quality into it. The GemPro 250 was built like a chinese toy but the electronics were worthy of a $550 lab scale.

Performance on this M1000 isnt so bad, I did more testing with all the bullets I could find, down to 50gr. I havent tried powder yet of even lower grain weights but it seemed to work better in the 50gr-140gr range than it did with the 694.6gr check weight, I was worried it would perform worse at its lowest range. The calibration at 694.6gr was off today by .4gr, I spent a good bit of time last night and had it spot on, now that I think of it all the bullets were .4gr heavy also, so thats probably a good sign of consistancy if I get that calibration figured out. I do think the price is a bit of a scam but with a home upgrade or two I should be able to get .1gr accuracy or better.

 

[Polock]

I've been using a 505 RCBS for so long it's amazing. Actually think any beam scale will work as well as I will! Problem with humans is they are always looking for the best product and there is no best. Just the products we like the best! Which, BTW, in someone else's opinion might be the worst!

 

[Rock Knocker]

I've been using a 505 RCBS for so long it's amazing. Actually think any beam scale will work as well as I will! Problem with humans is they are always looking for the best product and there is no best. Just the products we like the best! Which, BTW, in someone else's opinion might be the worst!

Yeah, Ive heard a lot of good things about RCBS balance beams, and I want one. I havent had one before, 505 would be more suitable fore me, its the quality that bothers me a bit, for the price and size and what you're actually getting I figured it would be a little nicer. Its quite Chinese, its a better scale than a $40 Lee saftey scale for sure but it looks like it was made in the same factory.

 

[Rock Knocker]

I looked at the scale today to make a final decision because I will be in town and can get a refund. Today, the Grain to Gram conversion table they put on the scale is a cheap sticker that the corners have already rolled up on now that temps inside have dropped below 50 degrees.

This is a scam, not a $170 product. Multiple things have failed or had problems before I even loaded a round, this is not a nice product that will last a lifetime.

 

[hm1996]

Seems to be "gadgety" to me, but that is just my opinion. I picked up a used RCBS 505 Scale at a club swap meet years ago and have been very happy with it. You might look around for a used one somewhere. Above link for reference only but gives you an idea what might be out there.

 

[Rock Knocker]

Seems to be "gadgety" to me, but that is just my opinion. I picked up a used RCBS 505 Scale at a club swap meet years ago and have been very happy with it. You might look around for a used one somewhere. Above link for reference only but gives you an idea what might be out there.

Thats my plan. I will get a cheap digital scale for 0.1gr accuracy and then look for a used 505. I wouldnt quite call this "gadgety" its pretty simple and I dont have a problem with how its set up but its just obviously made by the cheapest chinese bidder, no attempt at all to make a quality product. They used their name and reputation to squeeze every cent they could out of me on this.

 

[hm1996]

Let me clairfy my use of word "gadgety". I purchased this old Redding powder measure in 1958 and it has served me well ever since. It is fool proof, with only two adjustments; the larger counter weight (left) selects 0-300 grains in 5 grain increments and the smaller one (right) range is 0-5 in .1 gr increments. It is accurate to .1 gr.

The early model 505 measure (pictured in my first post above), I got in a trade many years later, & has a 500 gr. range with similar increments. Unless you are loading some very dangerous game calibers, either one will do the job nicely. The one advantage to the 505 is that it is magnetically dampened which speeds up the process slightly.

The M 1000's single advantage (IMO) would be the 1000 gr. capacity, which would only be an advantage if you are loading for something larger than a 375 h&h., which I have done even with the old Redding.
The disadvantage (to me) would be the main beam (0-1000 gr) in 20 gr. increments, top right weight range 0-20 gr. range, adjustable in 1 grain increments, and the third weight (lower) range of 0-1 grain in .1 grain increments. Just one more value to set to get the desired weight.

Midway catalog: Featuring a proven two-poise design that lets you weigh up to 1000 grains with +/-0.1-grain accuracy, the M1000 also offers RCBS’ magnetic damping system for fast readings, and maintenance-free movement. RCBS M1000 Balance Beam Mechanical Powder Scale 1000 Grain Capacity

 

[Rock Knocker]

Yeah the main beam 20gr increments was different, that didnt bother me, it just meant I had to double check my math when setting it. The biggest problem to me was that the pan was stamped out of tin foil and the "sight needle?" had no hash marks leading to dead on, it was just stamped from a recycled soup can and rounded. The two parts I was going to use most were amazing trash, every load im going to put my eye ball up to that soup can sighter and every load im going to pick up the tin foil pan. The pan is aluminum or tin foil, thick foil but this isnt sheet metal, it even crackles when it flexes in my finger tips, the cheap digital RCBS came with the same pan but this scale doesnt give me a chinese scam flavor.

 

[hm1996]

Yeah the main beam 20gr increments was different, that didnt bother me, it just meant I had to double check my math when setting it.

Yeah, I think that was an unnecessary frill intended as a selling point rather than an actual benefit to the reloader. IMO, it just adds one more obstacle where a mistake in math or setting could be a problem.

Actually, IMO, weighing every powder charge is a waste of time if accuracy is the objective and shots are less than 350 yards. Careful load development, finding the accuracy node for a powder/bullet combination eliminates the advantage of weighing every charge, especially at normal hunting ranges (300-350 yards). This can be done without a chronograph, but it is easier with one. The ladder method of loading will reveal the load for your chosen combination by group size and the chronograph provides supporting evidence.

I shot HP competition for years, started weighing every charge, but soon abandoned that step on all but my long range ammo (600-1000 yd). I firmly believe the only advantage of weighing the LR ammo was more mental (confidence in the ammo) than an actual improvement in the quality, but I did throw charges for all 200-300 yd ammo.

 

[Rock Knocker]

I agree, Im not that worried about it now. With the GemPro it was too easy to do that you just had to do it, it would register every 1 to 2 kernels of H4831sc and every 2 or 3 kernels of Benchmark size stick powder. And it would do that plenty quick even on the shooting bench out in the open, i had 1g, 10g and 20g check weights it was always spot on to the .02gr if the electric hook up was good and no major temperature changes. Ive only shot over a chronograph one time and that was with 3 223 rounds. With the 260AI I would do ladder tests and when i got the groups I wanted I would shoot at different ranges measuring drops, then, knowing the BC of the bullet and all other inputs, I would change the velocity in multiple ballistic calculators until I got a chart that matched what my bullet was shooting at 100-600yards then I would know what to do at 900+yards. This worked, I still have the rifle, its shot some 3 shot groups that a dime will cover at 300 yards. And the data verified to 1200 yards to under 1MOA accuracy and under 1MOA groups. I would carry a 1.5'x2' cardboard box with a bright target on it out somewhere I could shoot 1000+yards on the calmest days, my laser rangefinder couldnt read the box so I would triangulate my position based off google earth measurements I made before and use a WWII Brunton hand transit in the field. My best day was 1200yards with 1mph wind blowing right to left, my rifle had that same spin drift to the right so i didnt adjust for windage at all and hit both shots i made, cold bore and a second, one was high 6inch and 2inch to the right, the other was high 8inch and 2 inch to the left. I couldnt see bullets holes and I didnt want to be making clear misses without knowing so thats what I would do, set up, take less than 6 shots and hike back to see what I hit. Ive made all sorts of collapsable target stands and foldable fabric back sheets just for large targets I could carry over a mile each trip along with the huge artillery size rifle and large enough target to hit reliably.

 

[hm1996]

I never used an electronic scale. Was tempted a few times, but all the reports of interference from fluorescent lighting, etc. just stuck w/the balance beam scales. The automatic dispenser I tried used a balance beam and worked reasonably well, but, especially with stick powders, the powder would continue flowing after trickler had shut down, resulting in an overcharge that had to be discarded.

The GemPro 250s are discontinued,

Amazon shows the GemPro 250 in stock. If I were still reloading, I would sure give one of those a try based on your experience with them. Sure can't beat the price.

 

[AWS]

I'm a beam guy. You can't tell if something is haywire with an electric and I can't fix it. Beam scale is all there in front of you. I started with oil dampend, would even mix my oil to get a swift smooth reading. I've gone through a few different ones and keep them as back ups. I set up a light system that would make a shadow from m the point on the lined part. Now I have a pair of RCBS 510s mounted at eye level.

Scales at eye level makes them easy to read

 

[Rock Knocker]

Dang hm1996, I should get that, I dont have an amazon account, Ive never used amazon. Now Ive got all that money tied up in a Fleet Farm gift card, I purchased the M1000 partially with a gift card so the full refund went into a gift card..... And Ive spend around $400 on shotgun loading stuff the last two weeks....

AWS, I like the idea of using a shadow on the beam, I didnt think of that. I was going to find a cat wisker, trim and glue that on with half a drop of CA. I have also seen online with the new high tech stuff, you can buy a cheap micro USB camera and mount it right in front of the beam and plug it into your computer or monitor and have a steady zoomed in view from all angles. The GemPro was easy to see when things were weird, it would drift with temperature change or with a bad connection with their cheap cable. I had 3 check weights and the pan functioned as a check weight, it was easy to check. The GemPro was cheap junk too, it wasnt a nice product that will last a lifetime ether but its dead nuts accuracy was worth the price for 15years of service.

 

[hm1996]

Dang hm1996, I should get that, I dont have an amazon account, Ive never used amazon. Now Ive got all that money tied up in a Fleet Farm gift card, I purchased the M1000 partially with a gift card so the full refund went into a gift card..... And Ive spend around $400 on shotgun loading stuff the last two weeks....

Don't think you have to have an account to order from Amazon using either credit or debit card for payment, but not sure.

 

[Rock Knocker]

Don't think you have to have an account to order from Amazon using either credit or debit card for payment, but not sure.

I have heard that before, I avoid amazon and buy at smaller shops at all costs but I have tried ordering a time or two and I always got hung up with accounts and passwords. I could try harder.