Reloading 22-250 having trouble bad performance

L

Lange

New member
Hello all,

Got a new T/C Venture Predator in 22-250 and started reloading for it with disappointing results. At first thought may be the gun because I've tried higher charges of h-4985 with poor velocities in a 50 gr Imax and charges of 34-35 grain and only 3300-3400 fps. I tried 35.2 grain today and chronoed 3300 fps. I tried a full charge of 4064 at a book recommended max of 36 grain and was even worse both accuracy and velocity wise (like 3300). Around 3 inch group with the 4064. Also 55 gr PPU was only 3400 range as well...for testing factory loads. 1.5-2.5 moa as well.

Best I've gotten with the 4895 is slightly above moa working in increments . After trying the 33-34 grain range in increments with the 4895 I didn't with the 4064 because wanted a idea of the velocity at a max charge but ended up being worse as mentioned...

Also using new Hornady brass and CCI primers so you all know if that's any factor at all...

I tried some factory Remington 45 grain HPs and chronoed 3750 range and around moa accuracy which told me maybe not the gun. Was about the send into T/C to look at but I may hold off and try a bit more with loads. Yes I know the gun has a 22" barrel which does hurt a bit of velocity in the 22-250 but shouldn't be near this drastic....

Any ideas what I can try? What powder I can try? Thank you
 
Last edited:
My first question....have you broke in your barrel? That can account for a lot of the MOA issues. I have tried a boat load of powders in mine, (AA2015, CFE223, H335, IMR-4350, H4350 and IMR-4895). I've got good results with IMR-4895, 38gr under a 40gr V-Max, Hornady brass, Win LR primers, 36gr with a 50gr Sierra Blitz. I haven't ran these through the V-3 yet, but they are probably around 3900fsp and 3600fsp respectively. A load doesn't have to be super fast to be accurate. You could try to stretch out your COAL, that will usually tighten up your groups. Guns are like women, no two are alike.


Here Kitty Kitty
 
Originally Posted By: Mark204My first question....have you broke in your barrel? That can account for a lot of the MOA issues. I have tried a boat load of powders in mine, (AA2015, CFE223, H335, IMR-4350, H4350 and IMR-4895). I've got good results with IMR-4895, 38gr under a 40gr V-Max, Hornady brass, Win LR primers, 36gr with a 50gr Sierra Blitz. I haven't ran these through the V-3 yet, but they are probably around 3900fsp and 3600fsp respectively. A load doesn't have to be super fast to be accurate. You could try to stretch out your COAL, that will usually tighten up your groups. Guns are like women, no two are alike.


Here Kitty Kitty

H-4895 is the same as IMR right? At least close enough to not make much difference between the two in my case. Yes I understand doesn't need to be fast to work decent and I don't plan on pushing mine too fast for barrel life etc (3600-3800 generally with my loads) however 200-300 fps slower than what's listed in the manual and other data for my charges is excessively slower?

How many rounds does a barrel break in take generally? I've shot about 30 I'd say. Also I've been loading standard OALs but I can measure the throat have a Hornady OAL gauge and a 22-250 modified case and see what that is and try maybe .20 from the lands approximately unless you have another suggestion?

Thanks for the reply and trying to help me.

Also T/C claims no break in period is needed but who knows honestly still could help....
 
Last edited:
First let me start by saying that H4895 and IMR 4895 are definitely NOT the same thing. I have loaded both those pwders in my 250s with great success. H4895, in my experience, is much "hotter" and produces higher pressures than IMR 4895.

What model T/C rifle do you have? I have the standard Venture and it has proven to be extremely accurate with my handloads, as well as living up to the factory moa guarantee of being sub moa with most factory loads.

You asked "How many rounds does it take to break in the barrel?". The answer to that is anyone's guess and there are many different schools of thought on that. Google that subject and you will get so many different answers that your head will spin. I can't give you the magic answer but i can tell what i did with my particular rifle. I cleaned the barrel thoroughly out of the box. I fired 1 round and cleaned thoroughly for 10 rounds. I then shot a 3 shot group and cleaned thoroughly for the remainder of the box of ammo. With the next box of ammo, i fired 5 shot groups cleaning thoroughly after each group. Not sure this did anything but give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside, but the barrel progressively fouled less as i went. That tells me that i was smoothing out some of the imperfections that may have been in the bore.

As far as loads and velocities go......are you sure that you chrono is giving you accurate readings?

Every rifle and load is different but it seems to me that you don't have enough barrel length to burn all of the powder that you had listed in some of your loads. In fact, from my own experience, I can't believe that you weren't seeing excessive pressure signs in some of them.

I would clean you barrel thoroughly to make sure all of the copper and carbon fouling is gone. Buy several different quality factory loads and shoot some groups with them to see if you particular rifle lives up to T/Cs factory moa guarantee. That will give you a baseline of what the barrel is like and then you can start load development with your preferred bullet.

Also......pay no attention to published velocities for loads.They are only a general guideline to give a basic idea of what you could expect. Most of them were measured with a 24 or 26" inch barrel......and more importantly......a rifle and barrel that's not yours. 200-300 fps variance is nothing and actually very common.

P.S. I never put too much stock in the results i get from "new" brass. Seems like things don't settle down and show some consistency until they have been fired and resized once or twice.
 
Last edited:
Yes, they are listed at 72 and 73 in the Lyman book, H being faster. I'm shooting a 23 year old Ruger V/T which I bought new. My break-ins consist of a barrel cleaning after every shot for the first 10 shots and then a cleaning after every 5 shots till I get to 50. Its time consuming but it seems to help IMO. I shoot 5 different bullets out of my 22-250 and I set them all 5 thousandths off the lands. I do like T/C's, I have an Encore in 7-08 Rem with a 15" barrel, reloading for that is still a work in progress, but a lot of fun. I hope this was of some help to you.


Here Kitty Kitty
 
Originally Posted By: LangeOriginally Posted By: Mark204My first question....have you broke in your barrel? That can account for a lot of the MOA issues. I have tried a boat load of powders in mine, (AA2015, CFE223, H335, IMR-4350, H4350 and IMR-4895). I've got good results with IMR-4895, 38gr under a 40gr V-Max, Hornady brass, Win LR primers, 36gr with a 50gr Sierra Blitz. I haven't ran these through the V-3 yet, but they are probably around 3900fsp and 3600fsp respectively. A load doesn't have to be super fast to be accurate. You could try to stretch out your COAL, that will usually tighten up your groups. Guns are like women, no two are alike.


Here Kitty Kitty

H-4895 is the same as IMR right? At least close enough to not make much difference between the two in my case. Yes I understand doesn't need to be fast to work decent and I don't plan on pushing mine too fast for barrel life etc (3600-3800 generally with my loads) however 200-300 fps slower than what's listed in the manual and other data for my charges is excessively slower?

How many rounds does a barrel break in take generally? I've shot about 30 I'd say. Also I've been loading standard OALs but I can measure the throat have a Hornady OAL gauge and a 22-250 modified case and see what that is and try maybe .20 from the lands approximately unless you have another suggestion?

Thanks for the reply and trying to help me.

Also T/C claims no break in period is needed but who knows honestly still could help....

IMR 4895 is not the same as H4895. If you have only fired 30 rounds through the barrel, you haven't fired enough to even find a load that will shoot good, you couldn't have shot many loads of the same load and cover the range of loads you have said.
 
Originally Posted By: Bowhunt...clean you barrel thoroughly to make sure all of the copper and carbon fouling is gone.
Buy several different quality factory loads and shoot some groups with them to see if you particular rifle lives up to T/Cs factory moa guarantee...
+1

my T/C Venture loves these 55 gr VarX and prints submoa with these.
It does so well with them I stopped looking for a better handload.
 
My Howa 22-250 with a 1:12 twist loves 38.5gr of H4350 pushing a Sierra 60gr HP. I'm getting sub MOA groups.

I'm getting even better groups with my reduced loads using 13.5gr of Blue Dot pushing a Speer 55gr SP. My group on Sunday was 0.1845.

As for velocity, I don't have a chronograph so I don't know.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Bob_Atl
Bowhunt said:
...clean you barrel thoroughly to make sure all of the copper and carbon fouling is gone.
Buy several different quality factory loads and shoot some groups with them to see if you particular rifle lives up to T/Cs factory moa guarantee...
+1

X 2 on this
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: BowhuntFirst let me start by saying that H4895 and IMR 4895 are definitely NOT the same thing. I have loaded both those pwders in my 250s with great success. H4895, in my experience, is much "hotter" and produces higher pressures than IMR 4895.

What model T/C rifle do you have? I have the standard Venture and it has proven to be extremely accurate with my handloads, as well as living up to the factory moa guarantee of being sub moa with most factory loads.

You asked "How many rounds does it take to break in the barrel?". The answer to that is anyone's guess and there are many different schools of thought on that. Google that subject and you will get so many different answers that your head will spin. I can't give you the magic answer but i can tell what i did with my particular rifle. I cleaned the barrel thoroughly out of the box. I fired 1 round and cleaned thoroughly for 10 rounds. I then shot a 3 shot group and cleaned thoroughly for the remainder of the box of ammo. With the next box of ammo, i fired 5 shot groups cleaning thoroughly after each group. Not sure this did anything but give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside, but the barrel progressively fouled less as i went. That tells me that i was smoothing out some of the imperfections that may have been in the bore.

As far as loads and velocities go......are you sure that you chrono is giving you accurate readings?

Every rifle and load is different but it seems to me that you don't have enough barrel length to burn all of the powder that you had listed in some of your loads. In fact, from my own experience, I can't believe that you weren't seeing excessive pressure signs in some of them.

I would clean you barrel thoroughly to make sure all of the copper and carbon fouling is gone. Buy several different quality factory loads and shoot some groups with them to see if you particular rifle lives up to T/Cs factory moa guarantee. That will give you a baseline of what the barrel is like and then you can start load development with your preferred bullet.

Also......pay no attention to published velocities for loads.They are only a general guideline to give a basic idea of what you could expect. Most of them were measured with a 24 or 26" inch barrel......and more importantly......a rifle and barrel that's not yours. 200-300 fps variance is nothing and actually very common.

P.S. I never put too much stock in the results i get from "new" brass. Seems like things don't settle down and show some consistency until they have been fired and resized once or twice.


It is a T/C Venture Predator and thanks for all the other info gives me a lot that I may not exactly been aware of and to consider.

Originally Posted By: Mark204Yes, they are listed at 72 and 73 in the Lyman book, H being faster. I'm shooting a 23 year old Ruger V/T which I bought new. My break-ins consist of a barrel cleaning after every shot for the first 10 shots and then a cleaning after every 5 shots till I get to 50. Its time consuming but it seems to help IMO. I shoot 5 different bullets out of my 22-250 and I set them all 5 thousandths off the lands. I do like T/C's, I have an Encore in 7-08 Rem with a 15" barrel, reloading for that is still a work in progress, but a lot of fun. I hope this was of some help to you.


Here Kitty Kitty

It was thanks.

Originally Posted By: reb8600
IMR 4895 is not the same as H4895. If you have only fired 30 rounds through the barrel, you haven't fired enough to even find a load that will shoot good, you couldn't have shot many loads of the same load and cover the range of loads you have said. Originally Posted By: Bob_Atl

Originally Posted By: Bowhunt...clean you barrel thoroughly to make sure all of the copper and carbon fouling is gone.
Buy several different quality factory loads and shoot some groups with them to see if you particular rifle lives up to T/Cs factory moa guarantee...
+1



my T/C Venture loves these 55 gr VarX and prints submoa with these.
It does so well with them I stopped looking for a better handload. Originally Posted By: Handi20438 gr H380 55 gr Berger or like bullet all I have to say.
Handi204

I see thanks.

Originally Posted By: TheBig1My Howa 22-250 with a 1:12 twist loves 38.5gr of H4350 pushing a Sierra 60gr HP. I'm getting sub MOA groups.

I'm getting even better groups with my reduced loads using 13.5gr of Blue Dot pushing a Speer 55gr SP. My group on Sunday was 0.1845.

As for velocity, I don't have a chronograph so I don't know.

May try those thanks.

Originally Posted By: yotekiller47Try some H380 with some Nosler 50 ge BT's. Or some Hornady V Max. My 22-250 shoots them extremely well with that powder and CCI primers.

Gotcha that is one powder I was considering.

Also I want to make a point that is also going on that may help also towards determining what may be going on. The barrel is copper fouling atrociously. Like I've never seen so much copper fouling in my life. After shooting like 20 rounds at a range session none over 3500 fps so far other than I shot 6 hollow points the barrel is extremely fouled with copper. I don't have a bore scope but I have a bore light and look down it and wow it's absolutely coated with tons of copper.

I've never had a rifle do this and I had the same rifle in .204 at one point(had to sell this one in 22-250 is to get it back and replace it but I decided on a different caliber.) That rifle didn't foul anywhere close to this one ever. I know every rifle is different and yes faster speeds etc can cause fouling etc but what I've gathered this seems excessive. Could be a possible bore roughness or imperfection, some other issue that's also hindering the accuracy and such of my loads.

I've done two range sessions of 10-20 rounds and using lots of sweets, hoppes 9, even some JBs both times don't get all the copper out and been a huge hassle.

I already contacted T/C/S&W and set up a support ticket but ill either be calling them or using their live chat tomorrow. Just try and see what they have to say about the fouling and such.

Thanks all for the insights and definitely helps a lot. If this all turns out the rifle is okay ill certainly from now on try as you've all suggested but is difficult is it's not functioning correctly. I just didn't want to assume that and blame the rifle when could be me.
 
Last edited:
My buddy and I shoot both tc venture predators with same load. 36 gr of Varget,55gr Nosler bt,2.375 col. Both under 1 moa,we would clean them if the groups open up,just have not seen it in normal winter season(50-100 rounds hunting).
 
Lange: Go to varmint Als and make one of his electric barrel cleaners. It will clean All of the fouling from your barrel in a couple of hours. As for the 22-250 loads I use 43 Grains of H380 behind 50 grain bullets.They shoot under 1" at a hundred and runs 3915 over a chrono graph set 15" feet from muzzle. I use Remington Bench Rest primers and have a 24" barrel. This is a max load so work up and watch for pressure signs.
 
Well Lange, it sounds like your barrel is in rough shape if it is coppering up that fast. Looks like a good lapping is needed.

I have been loading for the 22-250 since 1975 and I have settled on using just two powders;
For 52gr HP bullets - RL15
For 55gr Vmax bullets - H4895

These are the only two loads that I have ever used for hunting in the last 41 years.
 
What chrono are you using? 3300 and 50 gr bullets doesnt sound right accept for maybe starting loads. How have you shot 30 rounds through the rifle and tried two max loads and know it doesn't shoot? Have you tried a well known factory ammo with a 50 gr bullet over a chrono? Out of a 22" barrel the hornady superformace shouldn't be less than 3650-3700. If it is you have a barrel problem, if isnt you have a reloading problem..
 
yotekiller47:I used to be friends with an old gentleman that worked for DuPont powder company making gun powder.He taught me to reload for the 22-250 as that was what he shot coyotes with. It has worked well for me for 35 years and I've never changed it. One of my reloading manuals lists 42 grains so it isn't too hot.
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top