Reloading for the Long Term, only answer if your .....REPLY was Posted


If you TRULY want ULTIMATE HANDLOADS "true accuracy" (very different from "reloads") you will go full bench rest type components.

The top names, PERIOD are Foster, Redding, Sinclaire, and Wilson.

If you TRULY want HANDLOADS, you don't mind it taking
hours(s) to make 10 PERFECT rounds. Why hours give or take?

With the utmost criticism and quality control you will:

1. You will weigh and measure every bullet

2.weigh every case and only keep those that weigh within a half grain of the lot's average, and consider the rest unworthy to be sling shot ammo.

3. You will uniform every primer cup, as consistently as you can, with the best uniformer you can afford, prior to every reloading. You will debur every flash hole in the same manner, but only the first time you prep the case.

4. You will measure the actual chamber length of YOUR chamber, and trim your brass to .005" less than that and ignore what the load manual says the trim to length is.

5. You will neck turn the neck of every case, to a perfect dimension in relation to the neck diameter in YOUR chamber.

6. You will hand weigh each and every powder charge and make them precise as you humanly can.

7. You will seat every bullet half way, then turn it 180 degrees and finish seating it to help get the most bullet to case cocentricity. you will also measure the concentricity (run-out) of every bullet/case finished assembly.

8. You will measure the overall length of the loaded round with a comparator off the ogive, and not the meplat.

9. You will set your c.o.a.l. (cartridge over all length) to where the loaded round's bullet will be resting .005" or so off the lands, depending on waht YOUR rifle prefers.

10. You will uniform the meplats of every bullet.

11. You will buy as many primers as can at a time to get as many as you can in the same production run, known as the lot number. The same with powder.

12. You will diregard (lower) velocity numbers in exchange for accuracy/consistency.

And in this level of handlaoding, using a rock chucker (a fine average press!)is like a gunsmith trying to build a rifle using no other tool than a chain saw. (No offence to single stage users, I'm one too. Were speaking of UTMOST accuracy here.) To attempt to use a Dillion progressive at this level of handloading is like said gunsmith trying to build said rifle with nothing other than a rock. (No offense to the Dillion Crowd: Dillion is by far the finest progressive metallic cartridge loadoing press in the world. I had a 550, sold it, and consider it to be in the top 10 of my life's mistakes.)

You will use "hand dies" that require the use of a mini arbor press. See Wilson brand dies.

You might, maybe, possibly get away with using a forster co-ax single stage press.The most accurate single stage press in the world.

etc. etc.

I'm sure I forgot to add some critical steps....

It's cool to see another budding accuracy fiend.

Truly accurate loads and rifles are those that you would swear it looks as though one single bullet passed through the paper, even though it was five.

The best I ever got was a .097" group out of a box stock Rruger number 1 .243 with handloads. It looked like one hole from one bullet, but if you looked close you could see the hole was not round but just slightly oval. And in bechrest matches, they would laugh at that.

I emply as many of the above techniques that I can afford etc. It pays off. I have my homemade "frakenstien" (assembled from many manufactueres parts) cheap ar-15 16" carbine shooting .8" groups @ 200 yards.

Do you really want utmost accuracy?

If not, you can make very accurate loads with more conventioanl gear like some of the items previously posted, but utmost accuracy is utmost accuracy!

I know LITTLE of the concept of "truly accurate."

Have fun!!! and make them as perfect as you can with whatever you can afford.

13 year precision machinist/ 20+ year handloader. Too poor to be an F class (1000 yard) bench rest competitor.
 
I think I saw somewhere that RCBS is making the Jr. press again. I started with a Jr about 40 yrs ago and it never gave me the first problem. A lie, I started with a Lee hand die then the first press was the Jr. An ex-wife sold my stuff in my absence once and I'd bet someone is still using that Jr. today.

I have had two Dillons, both inherited. One I sold and the other collects dust in my son's garage. I use a Rockchucker. Not because it's better than several other single stage press's but because I got a good deal on it. You'll not find as many things to break or go wrong on a single stage press as a turret. As for accuracy, Nosler uses Dillons for their testing so if your into mechanics and speed they would probally work.

I strongly suggest you don't get caught up in the voodoo magic and start out with a good single stage press. You could well decide that you never have a need for anything else but, if it doesn't do it for you, your not out near the money when you switch. The idea is to produce good ammunition for just your rifle and there is no a lot of magic in that.
 
Original post ask for "The top two"

You ask a question... then added a couple of stipulations that limit the total number of possible answers.

Two Turret presses that I would consider the best "high tech" (whatever that is)

Redding T-7
RCBS turret press

two best dies

Wilson
Forester


two best accessories

Sinclair
RCBS (because of the customer service)

It is very doubtful you will find that a turret press is significantly faster to load on than a standard single stage press. Unless you switch cartridges often. A turret press allows you to preset dies ahead of the actual time you will use them and have them ready to use on demand. The number of pulls on the handle does not change one bit.

35 plus years of handloading..............
 
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I am with Idaho Bob single stages aren't are a great thing not as many moving parts and simple and very accurate. It may be the slightest bit more work but I can reload 100 rounds in a little less than an hour on a single stage and I produce fabulous groups for the .223 I shoot and the .308 also.
 
I can only recommend a single stage press, RCBS or Redding for a beginner. You really cannot afford the distractions a progressive or a turret will aford you as a beginner. This is one hobby in which simpler is better until you learn the ropes. If you feel a single stage will be too slow and just a "pain in the butt", maybe you lack the patience this hobby requires.

High tech is not necessarily the way to go in the beginning, as the technology circumvents a great deal of the learning process. For example, just because a first grader can be taught to add & subtract on a calculator, it doesn't mean he understands the concept. To this many will respond that the concept doesn't matter as long as the kid gets the answer. To this I respond: Great! but what happens when the calculator battery dies and no replacement is available? Again, if you lack the patience to learn the process and the concepts, try golf.
 
Reloading 32+ years-

Same thing tresmon said, also don't forget to make sure that the throat on your barrel is concentric to the bore/chamber and that the groove/throat diameter is no more than .0001 over the actual bullet diameter.

My picks for top two die makers are Wilson and Redding but I also own dies from Hornady, RCBS, Pacific, Forester, Lachmiller, Lyman, Lee and maybe a couple others all of them will load good ammo.

If you want top quality precision ammo don't plan on speed being part of the process.

Also you will not get the best accuracy from hunting bullets even sorting with an internal concentricity comparator will only go so far with hunting type bullets.

JMO, Bob
 
Quote:
I can only recommend a single stage press, RCBS or Redding for a beginner. You really cannot afford the distractions a progressive or a turret will aford you as a beginner. This is one hobby in which simpler is better until you learn the ropes. If you feel a single stage will be too slow and just a "pain in the butt", maybe you lack the patience this hobby requires.

High tech is not necessarily the way to go in the beginning, as the technology circumvents a great deal of the learning process. For example, just because a first grader can be taught to add & subtract on a calculator, it doesn't mean he understands the concept. To this many will respond that the concept doesn't matter as long as the kid gets the answer. To this I respond: Great! but what happens when the calculator battery dies and no replacement is available? Again, if you lack the patience to learn the process and the concepts, try golf.


Have to say 'AMEN' to that. Been loading on single stage for over 25 yrs. No regrets.
 
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And in this level of handlaoding, using a rock chucker (a fine average press!)is like a gunsmith trying to build a rifle using no other tool than a chain saw.




Tresmon, you cut me deep! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif



Any one know where to get a chainsaw file that will fit my Rockchucker?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 


GRUNTER,

Bro! I had to sell all my reloading gear a few years back, and then finally got the span-culas to start over. I don't even have a press nearly as good as a Chucker now!

(applying pressure to grunters wound...)
 
I've reloaded for 40+ years. Shot bench rest competion,years too. You need to start out with the basics! Single stage press,ect. Then,if you want, go to a progressive press. Want to guess what my target loads are loaded on? A old Lyman Orange Crusher, with Redding dies,and competion bullet seater. A pickup truck couldn't hold the rounds that press has loaded. Buy the best equipment you can afford,take your time. If there are any other reloaders in your area, (older,experenced one's) listen to what they say about reloading,and ask questions. Most will be glad to help out.
 
Allgrainbeer,

Asides the contradictions in your original post, I believe your massage imply you want to load for the best accuracy that you can possibly get. If that’s the case, Tersmon’s post gave you a pretty good idea what precision reloading really is. Personally, I won’t have any other way. However, before you bite in to this hook, lines and sinker, I would first evaluate your rifles and see if you can truly benefit with this type of setup. It makes no sense buying an Indy cart if all you are doing is delivering U.S. mail.
 
I don't see where a single stage press is all that slower than a turrent, except for setting up the dies. I use one for my pistols, but for the rifles I use a single stage. A forster press just snaps dies in and out, would be as fast as the turrent. Thats what I would buy for a single stage. For dies I like the redding button dies, and the forster seaters. For hunting big game you don't need hand dies or custom dies like came with my benchrest rifle. Like was mentioned, you couldn't go wrong with the rcbs kit either. By the way, started reloading in 1970 when I got out of the US Army, using a rcbs jr press and loaded some fine ammo with it. I think the biggest advancement is in the components we now have, esp. the bullets and selection.
Barry
 
Quote:
Quote:
And in this level of handlaoding, using a rock chucker (a fine average press!)is like a gunsmith trying to build a rifle using no other tool than a chain saw.




Tresmon, you cut me deep! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif



Any one know where to get a chainsaw file that will fit my Rockchucker?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



Guess i had better get one too.... the groups I posted where loaded with my RCBS ROCKCHUCKER..... good thing the bullets didn't know that.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
 
I started handloading with a Dillon RL-550. After 3 years, I sold it cheap and "upgraded" to a RockChucker. Between it, a few Redding Competition dies, and a few other tweaks, a 500 yard pdogs best chance is a very heavy wind.

Mike
 
I am more than a little curious if when you ask someone for directions, do you first ask them if they have been driving for 5 years or more?
 
AGB,
Wow, there's a lot of people here trying to help you out. I would go with RCBS kit to start out. You gotta crawl before you walk. I would give you my reloading stats, but I don't want to toot my horn. Sorry guys somebody had too.
 
Quote:
Allgrainbeer,

Asides the contradictions in your original post, I believe your massage imply you want to load for the best accuracy that you can possibly get. If that’s the case, Tersmon’s post gave you a pretty good idea what precision reloading really is. Personally, I won’t have any other way. However, before you bite in to this hook, lines and sinker, I would first evaluate your rifles and see if you can truly benefit with this type of setup. It makes no sense buying an Indy cart if all you are doing is delivering U.S. mail.



i sent him a pm saying the same thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 


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