I watched the show and the engineer who designed it back in 1946 said he thought it needed to be changed back then. I didn't see it as anti gun as the fellow who lost his son said he was againt any gun control by the goverment. I myself own savage and mauser and have never had any problems. It would really upset me if I had a buck of a life time come in and have a rifle go off and ruin my hunt. I like gear I can depend on 100 percent of the time, wether I'm fishing or hunting. I work hard at it and don't want to have to worry about equipment failure.
Remington 700 on CNBC
- Thread starter Wallbass45
- Start date
Jeepdude1987
New member
I've spent a half hour trying to replicate this kind of problem when I adjusted my trigger. I have no fear in my Remington 700 going off unless I put about 5lbs of pressure on the trigger.
Rost-SD
New member
I watched this last night. Couple thoughts I have...
First, I won't argue that people have not had issues in the past with the 700. Anytime you produce 5 million products, you are going to have issues to a degree. And I find it interesting that I personally have owned 700's (along with almost all of my hunting buddies) and up until last night, I have never even heard about this potential issue. Then I jump on the web today, and it seems like EVERYONE can remember a certain instance when their wife, buddy, or themself had a remington misfire. Where were you people when I was researching the purchase of my last Remington 700? I searched "Remington 700" on almost every website forum known to man and never once did I hear people chirping about how often they fire without pulling the trigger... Again, i am not questioning you folks that say this happened, I just find it odd the everyone is coming out of the woodwork on this.
While the information cnbc presented on the program was compelling (especially to the average non gun owner), I truely believe there was a definate agenda in mind. The last 5 minutes of the program talked about how the Gun Manufacturers in the US are not regulated due to the 2nd ammendment. I believe they sensationalized the crap out of the first 50 minutes, then dropped the bomb at the end. This makes the average liberal say, "What? The gun industry is not regulated?"- Two weeks before the elections... perfect timing eh? And what a perfect candidate to pick on, The Green Monster- Americas Largest Gunmaker.
As we all very well know, the media can take a goat, and write a report to make people think it's a cow. The sad part is that most simply believe everything they hear.
As gun owners, I believe it would be best to stick together on this whether you like Remington or not. I honestly don't believe this program was an attack on Remington, I believe it was an attack on guns period.
First, I won't argue that people have not had issues in the past with the 700. Anytime you produce 5 million products, you are going to have issues to a degree. And I find it interesting that I personally have owned 700's (along with almost all of my hunting buddies) and up until last night, I have never even heard about this potential issue. Then I jump on the web today, and it seems like EVERYONE can remember a certain instance when their wife, buddy, or themself had a remington misfire. Where were you people when I was researching the purchase of my last Remington 700? I searched "Remington 700" on almost every website forum known to man and never once did I hear people chirping about how often they fire without pulling the trigger... Again, i am not questioning you folks that say this happened, I just find it odd the everyone is coming out of the woodwork on this.
While the information cnbc presented on the program was compelling (especially to the average non gun owner), I truely believe there was a definate agenda in mind. The last 5 minutes of the program talked about how the Gun Manufacturers in the US are not regulated due to the 2nd ammendment. I believe they sensationalized the crap out of the first 50 minutes, then dropped the bomb at the end. This makes the average liberal say, "What? The gun industry is not regulated?"- Two weeks before the elections... perfect timing eh? And what a perfect candidate to pick on, The Green Monster- Americas Largest Gunmaker.
As we all very well know, the media can take a goat, and write a report to make people think it's a cow. The sad part is that most simply believe everything they hear.
As gun owners, I believe it would be best to stick together on this whether you like Remington or not. I honestly don't believe this program was an attack on Remington, I believe it was an attack on guns period.
Originally Posted By: RONINFLAG interesting that the army and marine corps both use remington 700 rifles and remington 700 TRIGGERS on their sniper rifles. the army uses a long action which is not neccesary for a 308 with an h-s stock. the marines use a short action with mcmillian stock. seems the armed forces trusts them.
I watched the CNBC program and felt that it was more pro-safety than anti-gun. I realize that PM members are by far better informed than most, but too many in the shooting community have never heard of the mod. 700 (and other models using the Walker trigger) tendency to FRS (Remington's acronym for "fire on release of safety"). Mr. Walker, the trigger designer, expressed his own reservations as to the safety of his trigger and recommended a modification early on, with which Remington did not concur.
As for the military using the 700's, they are well aware of the "safety" issue as was well documented by the video clips made by various LEO agencies and the military of rifles experiencing FRS aired on the CNBC program. For these agencies to be able to video these malfunctions indicates the frequency of such occurances to me.
I first heard of a Rem. FRS in the early '50s while working part time with a gunsmith while attending highschool, so this is not just a recent occurance. I wrote earlier of my new 40XC target rifle which experienced an FRS on the very first round out of the box. Trigger had never been adjusted and my finger was no where near the trigger! While it was an extremely accurate rifle and very well suited for NRA XTC competition, it was replaced with a mod. 70. I no longer own any CF bolt guns w/o 3 position safety, preferably one that blocks the firing pin, not the sear.
Someone once said, "To be forewarned is to be forearmed." FRS can, do and will happen ! One can choose to ignore the issue or learn from other's experience. Please, be safe and watch yer muzzle!
Regards,
hm
I watched the CNBC program and felt that it was more pro-safety than anti-gun. I realize that PM members are by far better informed than most, but too many in the shooting community have never heard of the mod. 700 (and other models using the Walker trigger) tendency to FRS (Remington's acronym for "fire on release of safety"). Mr. Walker, the trigger designer, expressed his own reservations as to the safety of his trigger and recommended a modification early on, with which Remington did not concur.
As for the military using the 700's, they are well aware of the "safety" issue as was well documented by the video clips made by various LEO agencies and the military of rifles experiencing FRS aired on the CNBC program. For these agencies to be able to video these malfunctions indicates the frequency of such occurances to me.
I first heard of a Rem. FRS in the early '50s while working part time with a gunsmith while attending highschool, so this is not just a recent occurance. I wrote earlier of my new 40XC target rifle which experienced an FRS on the very first round out of the box. Trigger had never been adjusted and my finger was no where near the trigger! While it was an extremely accurate rifle and very well suited for NRA XTC competition, it was replaced with a mod. 70. I no longer own any CF bolt guns w/o 3 position safety, preferably one that blocks the firing pin, not the sear.
Someone once said, "To be forewarned is to be forearmed." FRS can, do and will happen ! One can choose to ignore the issue or learn from other's experience. Please, be safe and watch yer muzzle!
Regards,
hm
Rost-sd
Amen, you saw the same show i did. is there really a problem, maybe maybe not. I do believe this was an anti gun thing. I am not one to think every time that a gun issue comes up its the antis at it again. but this show stunk of it. I have a few 700 and wish this show didn't stink of anti BS as I for one would like to know if I should put different triggers in them. They did not sell me one way or the other. I also liked the way they pointed out how remington Now send the ten commandments with there new gun. I really liked the way they pointed out rule #3 never trust a saftey as it is just a mechanical deviced and can fail. if they would have pointed out the rest of the commandments and they were followed no one would have been shot.
so if gun company's are protected by the 2nd amendment maybe we need to get rid of the 2nd amendment so we can regulate them. thats the message I got from this show.
Cracker
Amen, you saw the same show i did. is there really a problem, maybe maybe not. I do believe this was an anti gun thing. I am not one to think every time that a gun issue comes up its the antis at it again. but this show stunk of it. I have a few 700 and wish this show didn't stink of anti BS as I for one would like to know if I should put different triggers in them. They did not sell me one way or the other. I also liked the way they pointed out how remington Now send the ten commandments with there new gun. I really liked the way they pointed out rule #3 never trust a saftey as it is just a mechanical deviced and can fail. if they would have pointed out the rest of the commandments and they were followed no one would have been shot.
so if gun company's are protected by the 2nd amendment maybe we need to get rid of the 2nd amendment so we can regulate them. thats the message I got from this show.
Cracker
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NcWhitetail
New member
Originally Posted By: dmpowderWait a minute....... you guys are trying to tell me I actually have to watch what I'm doing with a firearm even though it has a safety?????
Sorry but I have to call BS on this one!
Well this AIN'T BS. I had it happen to me as I was preparing to unload to lower my rifle from my deer stand. No, the trigger had not been adjusted.
After this episode the trigger was adjusted properly. Now the trigger is better and SAFE.
Sorry but I have to call BS on this one!
Well this AIN'T BS. I had it happen to me as I was preparing to unload to lower my rifle from my deer stand. No, the trigger had not been adjusted.
After this episode the trigger was adjusted properly. Now the trigger is better and SAFE.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Welcome to the board Luckytrey!
Jack
Jack
tripod3
New member
There is plenty of information on this subject all over the internet from way back when.
Lawsuits have turned up Remington internal memos and testimony. Their own tests showed about 1% or estimates at that time of about 20,000 guns could be "tricked into firing without touching the trigger.
Quote:The proper position of the connector under the sear is an overlap of only 25/1000ths of an inch, but because the connector is not bound to the trigger, the connector separates from the trigger body when the rifle is fired and creates a gap between the two parts. Any dirt, debris or manufacturing scrap can then become lodged in the space created between the connector and the trigger, preventing the connector from returning to its original position.
Lawsuits have turned up Remington internal memos and testimony. Their own tests showed about 1% or estimates at that time of about 20,000 guns could be "tricked into firing without touching the trigger.
Quote:The proper position of the connector under the sear is an overlap of only 25/1000ths of an inch, but because the connector is not bound to the trigger, the connector separates from the trigger body when the rifle is fired and creates a gap between the two parts. Any dirt, debris or manufacturing scrap can then become lodged in the space created between the connector and the trigger, preventing the connector from returning to its original position.
Originally Posted By: BIBSMACHINE1957As most of us know never chamber a loaded round untill you a ready to shoot your target.
I hope you're talking about sighting in or shooting at the range. If you are hunting and rack the bolt near most animals, it will be long gone before you chamber the round and aim. Don
I hope you're talking about sighting in or shooting at the range. If you are hunting and rack the bolt near most animals, it will be long gone before you chamber the round and aim. Don
Bloody_Tailgate
New member
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: RubenatorHate to kick you Remington boys while your down, but you should have bought a Savage.
That's some pretty funny stuff right there!
Want funny? The time Remington was making the "questionable" triggers Savage couldn't make a rifle that could hit a barn...from the inside!
That's some pretty funny stuff right there!
Want funny? The time Remington was making the "questionable" triggers Savage couldn't make a rifle that could hit a barn...from the inside!
nightcaller
Active member
i thought the program was a little misleading. e.g., they showed a military sniper who's rifle was going off without him touching it. i'm not an authority on snipers but i highly doubt that's a stock trigger at factory settings. i'm sure that it "has" happened but i doubt it's as prevelant as they claim. i'd guess many people had their fingers on the trigger or they'd lightened their pull too far (i've done that before and it wasnt the guns fault that it slam fired it was mine.)
dcp25
New member
This is the first I've heard of it. I have 2 700's and I adjusted both triggers. While adjusting the trigger I would open and close the bolt many many .... many times and the same with flipping the safety on and off. It took multiple times for me to get the adjustment the way I wanted AND have the gun not fire when the bolt closed or the safety flipped. These were the first trigger adjustments I attempted and am always aware that I performed the work on the trigger myself and never close the bolt or flip the safety with the gun pointed anywhere but where I'm planning on firing. I've had 12 gauge shotguns that I truste3d less however. Muzzle control is the only issue here.
Originally Posted By: Bloody_TailgateOriginally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: RubenatorHate to kick you Remington boys while your down, but you should have bought a Savage.
That's some pretty funny stuff right there!
Want funny? The time Remington was making the "questionable" triggers Savage couldn't make a rifle that could hit a barn...from the inside!
Ohhhhh I dont know about that since my gramps barn had a lot of holes in it when I bought my 1st savage..........
That's some pretty funny stuff right there!
Want funny? The time Remington was making the "questionable" triggers Savage couldn't make a rifle that could hit a barn...from the inside!
Ohhhhh I dont know about that since my gramps barn had a lot of holes in it when I bought my 1st savage..........
I don't know bout the old savage rifles but I know that the new ones or newer ones will slam fire with the trigger too light . They will also shoot the handles on the barn door from a long way off
I am not a remmy fan but I own two that I have not had any trouble out of , my dad's 7oo BDL in 30.06 slam fired a couple times when I was working the trigger got it right checked it many times put a little clear nail polish ( that I stole from my mom at the time ) and it was fixed . I am a die hard brother of the barrel nut and will be for a long time .
bigwheeler
New member
Well, after reading the link on the design, the times remington almost
recalled them all, the fact the designer wanted to fix the problem before
it was released for pennies a gun, and that now remington has changed it,
and that I have had it happen once... I am changing the trigger in my gun.
It's bs on remingtons part and now that I understand it can happen at any
time without the users knowledge or wrong doing it kinda [beeep] me off.
And I have been a remington fan all my life.
recalled them all, the fact the designer wanted to fix the problem before
it was released for pennies a gun, and that now remington has changed it,
and that I have had it happen once... I am changing the trigger in my gun.
It's bs on remingtons part and now that I understand it can happen at any
time without the users knowledge or wrong doing it kinda [beeep] me off.
And I have been a remington fan all my life.
kdad73
New member
All i know is that the guy that was making the complaint that the gun was unsafe and the it killed his son was shown shooting a Remington action rifle at the end they look like custom guns. Now my thought was if he is shooting custom guns did the 700 that shot his son have the trigger adjusted and did he do the adjustment. It seems to me like he was just trying to win the Remington Lottery.