Originally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: SnowmanMoCo-trustee's and successor trustees are not the same thing. Co-trustee is another "responsible person" that administers the trust. ANYONE that is on your trust as a Trustee will submit their prints and photo. A successor is a beneficiary, and as such, is NOT a responsible person or party when the trust is formed. They would not have to provide their prints and paperwork until and unless the trust passes, when you die.
I have had both dealers and ATF notice that I have "beneficiaries" on my trust and try to claim they need to provide prints and photos. Once I point out that they are "beneficiaries" and are NOT "trustees" they back away from their position.
Not everyone in the ATF offices is as up to speed on the laws as they should be to administer them. SNAFU.
not all trusts are identical - and therefore different rules will apply. it depends on the language of your trust.
in some trusts "beneficiaries" ARE responsible persons and would need to submit the required documentation. My trust is one such example.
the difference between a beneficiary and a trustee in my trust is that trustees are the only ones allowed to add/remove property to/from the trust, and beneficiary's are only allowed to utilize trust property. this allows me to manage who can and cannot do what with my trust's property. it gives me a legal vehicle to protect my property within the trust.
if your trust only allows trustee's - you have to be sure that at some indeterminate point in the future that one of those trustee's doesn't decide to sell said trust property. or as an example do so in retribution for some perceived (or real) debt owed to them. as a trustee they would have every right to do so - again at least in my trusts language.
in others they (beneficiaries) are not able to posses trust property until some point in the future - not responsible persons until that change happens - and therefore dont need to submit any documentation.
Very good point.
Here is the definition of a responsible person according to the ATF:
In the case of an unlicensed entity, including any trust, partnership, association, company (including any Limited Liability Company (LLC)), or corporation, any individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the management and polices of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal entity.
In the case of a TRUST, those persons with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust include any person who has the capability to exercise such power and possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust. Image of a gun with a supressor
Examples of who may be considered a responsible person of a trust or legal entity include:
Settlors/Grantors
Trustees
Partners
Members
Officers
Board members
Owners
Beneficiaries – if said beneficiary has the capability to exercise any of the powers or authorities enumerated above.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulation...nsible%20Person
So it's not hard to see why it might take so long since each trust would have to be gone over with a fine tooth comb to verify the exact definitions since trusts can vary so much.