Ron Paul is NOT out of the race

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I agree with you guys, in that I personally find the idea very distasteful. If I were walking through a mall and saw two guys necking, of course I would find it very disturbing. I also find it disturbing when I see two teens of opposite sexes doing the same thing in public. I also agree with you guys about the over the top, and in your face approach that these groups seem to embrace with their parades and what not. I guess the bottom line, and what keeps me from calling myself an "ultra conservative", is that I accept that these people are still human beings, and as such, deserve the same "rights" as any other human beings. I sure don't believe that homosexuals, either men or women, deserve anything more. As far as the whole gay marriage thing, I first viewed it as an abomination as well. In the religion that I was born into, that's exactly what it was, ironic that as time went on,a widespread occurence of holy men forcing themselves on choirboys would become such a front running topic in my religion. Don't get me wrong, I'm still not pro gay marriage in a religious sense, but I do believe that should they want to form some type of union in a legal sense that would allow them to share in each others benifits; insurance, death benifits, taxes, then it's not up to me, or the govt. to tell them they can't. Just because it's against the laws of the hypocritical religion I was born to, there are plenty of churches out there that will marry them. Either way, it's no skin off my scrotum.
I'm a live and let live, turn the other cheek, kind of guy. I took it as my personal responsibility to raise my son to the best of my abilities. I'd like to think that I taught him tolerance and understanding, regardless of my own personal dislikes. I suppose I could have swept less desireable aspects of life under the carpet, like homosexuality,drug abuse,crooked politicians,racial injustices and a long list of other things, I guess I just thought that to do that would somehow make me less of a man, and less of a father.
I hope if there is a God, that he/she doesn't view my way of dealing with others as equals,my efforts to remain tolerant of others beliefs and values, even when they're complete opposites of my own,and my refusal to adopt a religion that promotes hatred toward any living people, regardless of their beliefs, as being a weakness.Once again, I'm not knocking anyone's personal religious beliefs, if it works for you, go with it. I'd just prefer to wander through life wearing my blinders, and believing that if Jesus Christ did exist, he was probably a pretty tolerant, turn the other cheek, kind of guy.




Mick,

Other than my comments about Phelps my post wasn't from a religious perspective, but from a common sense and historical one. These people are not after equal rights, but special rights. They claim not to have equal rights because they can't marry. They can't marry because the definition of the word would have to be changed to suit them. They aren't being discriminated against here. I don't have the "right" to marry another man and neither do they. We therefore DO have equal rights, correct? Does that mean they aren't human? Of course not. What they do does make them aberrant, to say the least. I don't hate the queers and I don't believe anyone else here does either, but hatred and intolerance of what they do does not make me or anyone else wrong. If Jesus Christ was a tolerant, turn the cheek kind of guy please explain Matthew 7:23 to us- "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
 
Dawg,
I don't fault anyone for their beliefs, and in most cases I agree with everything you guys have said. From a personal viewpoint, I find that lifestyle unnatural and disgusting, but I don't happen to believe that it's up to me,Phelps, or anyone else to determine that "they" or their supporters, will burn in he11 and face eternal damnation is all. I'm not a supporter of gay marriage at all. Despite my own current views towards most religious organizations, I still believe that "marriage" is a religious union, and thus agree with you 100% where the same sexes are concerned. Although I still find their actions abnormal, it would not be an issue to me if they were granted the right to some type of "legal union". For someone to suggest that the homos will all go to he11 is bad enough, but to suggest that I too will land in he11, simply because I didn't fight hard enough to change the homos, is just beyond absurd in my eyes. As far as how it would affect my voting for a candidate, it simply wouldn't, either way. There are far too many important issues for me to consider, before putting too much thought into what the homosexual crowd does or doesn't get.
As far as explaining any part of the Bible, I'm the wrong guy for that. Having been born catholic, after 47 years, I've yet been able to explain most of it to myself. I'll just continue to take my chances, be the best man I can be, treat others the way I like to be treated,stick my nose in where it doesn't belong when I encounter an injustice that doesn't concern me,and in the end, just accept where the chips fall.
 
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Phelps is a great person to bring up in this context.

He claims to be a christian, though I don't recognize him as such. He claims to know what God wants, but I find the christians I know & talk to about him aren't buying that, either.

How would you like him writing your laws? I'd just as soon shoot him.

Bruce you keep tossing up the attacks on our gun rights as if that was somehow relevant to this discussion. I don't see how it is & so far you have not made any sort of case why it is.

My rights to own a gun do not depend on anything in scripture. No one is trotting up to the govt with a bible in hand saying "we have to ban guns cause that's what God wants, it says so right here."

So I have no idea what you're on about with that excpet making a straw man arguement.

pancakebunny.jpg



God gave us domain over the animals to use as food and clothing.Unless you shoot yours only with a bow I also shoot mine with a gun.Kind of hard to shoot critters with a gun to use for food and clothing if they are outlawed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
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Dawg,
I don't fault anyone for their beliefs, and in most cases I agree with everything you guys have said. From a personal viewpoint, I find that lifestyle unnatural and disgusting, but I don't happen to believe that it's up to me,Phelps, or anyone else to determine that "they" or their supporters, will burn in he11 and face eternal damnation is all. I'm not a supporter of gay marriage at all. Despite my own current views towards most religious organizations, I still believe that "marriage" is a religious union, and thus agree with you 100% where the same sexes are concerned. Although I still find their actions abnormal, it would not be an issue to me if they were granted the right to some type of "legal union". For someone to suggest that the homos will all go to he11 is bad enough, but to suggest that I too will land in he11, simply because I didn't fight hard enough to change the homos, is just beyond absurd in my eyes. As far as how it would affect my voting for a candidate, it simply wouldn't, either way. There are far too many important issues for me to consider, before putting too much thought into what the homosexual crowd does or doesn't get.
As far as explaining any part of the Bible, I'm the wrong guy for that. Having been born catholic, after 47 years, I've yet been able to explain most of it to myself. I'll just continue to take my chances, be the best man I can be, treat others the way I like to be treated,stick my nose in where it doesn't belong when I encounter an injustice that doesn't concern me,and in the end, just accept where the chips fall.


believe it or not its the truth.States that clearly in the bible.You said you was born a catholic.With your ideas you certainly are not one now.
 
I'm not one to tell you you're going to hell Mick. While some view marriage as a religious union, it is also a legal one and has gone back many generations. If the law is changed to recognize "civil unions" for queers, it will fly in the face of centuries of LEGAL precedent. If you look at where these arrangements are being recognized- NJ, Mass.,Vt.- it becomes obvious that it is part of the liberal agenda. I also wouldn't vote or not vote for a particular candidate based solely on their position on the subject. That said, any candidate that does support civil unions will almost without fail be in opposition to my positions on issues that I do consider of great importance. The stability of our society rests on having standards of behaviour. Accepting and normalizing homosexuality does nothing to reinforce that stability, but absolutely damages it, turning it into a free for all of all sorts of unnatural behaviour on public display for us and our children to witness. If my opinions make me intolerant then so be it. All this can be argued without bringing in a religious context. Sorry to hijack, I guess we need to get back to R.P.
 
"You said you was born a catholic.With your ideas you certainly are not one now."

Bruce, you're absolutely correct on that point. That's my personal views however. I won't apologize for the fact that I have a hard time supporting a religion that on one hand condemns homos,while on the other hand has it running rampant in it's own ranks,but hidden behind closed doors. In the case of ANY organized religion that sets as it's rules that I must condemn others based on their own personal beliefs, simply because I don't agree with them, then I'll choose to politely step aside. If a church teaches me that I must teach my children to view others with with contempt and hatred, because their actions are not in line with my own, then once again, I'll politely decline and step aside. While I would never attack you based on your personal religious beliefs, nor would I ever attack Christianity as a whole,I would also never forget that more wars have been fought, and more blood spilled, in it's name, than the sum of all modern wars. If you choose to follow a specific religion and it's teachings that's great, just as I'll choose to believe the way I wish, and worship in the way I see most fitting. No amount of "agnostics" or "bible thumpers" are going to change my personal beliefs. Once again,the whole homosexuality thing is not my cup of tea at all,I just happen to find discrimination and bigotry directed at any group of people whether it's based on sexual orientation, race or religious beliefs, to be the greater sin.
 
again, [beeep] does the concept of outlawing guns have to do with using religious beliefs as the sole basis for writing laws?

Iran does exactly what you want. Their laws are based on Islam, period. You want to live there? I sure don't.

The spanish Inquisition, perhaps you remember reading about that in history? There was a nice little example of making laws based on what God wants. They had an insane catholic priest named Torquemada, I think it was, who knew exactly what God wanted & he set up torture chambers & killed untold numbers of people to make sure everyone got it.

Be careful what you ask for, you just may get it.

I have no desire to live in any form of theocracy, religious dictatorship, or anything else that describes it. I will fight to the death to prevent that from happening here.
 
Dawg,
Once again, I agree with most of what you have to say.I completely agree with your statement "The stability of our society rests on having standards of behaviour".
I also believe that our society alone determines those standards, and as society changes, so does it's standards. I dang sure don't agree with every change I've seen come about since growing up through the sixties and seventies,yet many, I've forced myself to accept. As far as the queers go, there have been homos throughout all of history, and I just accept the fact that nothing either you or I do, is going to change that.
As far as fighting for their rights or anything, Count me out,lol.
 
I see your point Mick. I do choose to fight against the changes for the worse simply out of love for my children and country. It may not make much of a difference, but any difference I do make will be worth it.
 
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Be careful what you ask for, you just may get it.

I have no desire to live in any form of theocracy, religious dictatorship, or anything else that describes it. I will fight to the death to prevent that from happening here.



Yep, and our Constitution was written to prevent that very thing. Thats the reason the Pilgrims packed up came across the ocean.
 
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"You said you was born a catholic.With your ideas you certainly are not one now."

Bruce, you're absolutely correct on that point. That's my personal views however. I won't apologize for the fact that I have a hard time supporting a religion that on one hand condemns homos,while on the other hand has it running rampant in it's own ranks,but hidden behind closed doors. In the case of ANY organized religion that sets as it's rules that I must condemn others based on their own personal beliefs, simply because I don't agree with them, then I'll choose to politely step aside. If a church teaches me that I must teach my children to view others with with contempt and hatred, because their actions are not in line with my own, then once again, I'll politely decline and step aside. While I would never attack you based on your personal religious beliefs, nor would I ever attack Christianity as a whole,I would also never forget that more wars have been fought, and more blood spilled, in it's name, than the sum of all modern wars. If you choose to follow a specific religion and it's teachings that's great, just as I'll choose to believe the way I wish, and worship in the way I see most fitting. No amount of "agnostics" or "bible thumpers" are going to change my personal beliefs. Once again,the whole homosexuality thing is not my cup of tea at all,I just happen to find discrimination and bigotry directed at any group of people whether it's based on sexual orientation, race or religious beliefs, to be the greater sin.


The truth is usually not easy.Its the way things are.God is against people having sex with the same sex.God don't hate anyone.He hates the crime itself.As for some priests being gay is a bad thing and they must answer to god themselves.I would hate to be in their shoes as they would be held more accountable for it as they are suppose to be teaching others about God.You can't blame God for these bad apples as God gives everybody free will.Call me bible thumper or what ever you want.I'm just simply stating the truth.What you or anyone else does with the information is up to you or anyone else.Everyone will have to answer to God.Theres no getting away from that and Gods laws are there whether you like them or don't agree with them.
 
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again, [beeep] does the concept of outlawing guns have to do with using religious beliefs as the sole basis for writing laws?

1.You have to have laws to stop murder,rape,outlawing guns,stoping hunting,fishing,trapping, and eating meat.These are all religous beliefs.Its right in the bible.

Iran does exactly what you want. Their laws are based on Islam, period. You want to live there? I sure don't.

2.I would rather live under the laws of The one and only true God through Jesus Christ our lord and savior.

The spanish Inquisition, perhaps you remember reading about that in history? There was a nice little example of making laws based on what God wants. They had an insane catholic priest named Torquemada, I think it was, who knew exactly what God wanted & he set up torture chambers & killed untold numbers of people to make sure everyone got it.

3.He was another that did not like what is written in the bible and split from the Catholic religion starting his own.Just like Jesus clearly states once you have changed one word in his bible you are no longer with the church built upon a rock and are now manmade

Be careful what you ask for, you just may get it.

I have no desire to live in any form of theocracy, religious dictatorship, or anything else that describes it. I will fight to the death to prevent that from happening here.



4.And I will also fight the good fight and stand up for what is right to the death also.
 
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legislating based on your religion is not.



Sometimes maybe. For example, we have laws making murder or theft illegal, those laws have their roots in "Thou shalt not commit murder" or "Thou shalt not steal".
 
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living your life by what you believe is right. legislating based on your religion is not.


So legislating our god given rights such as domain over animals for food and clothing is not right?I can't agree.The only way these wacos are going to be stopped is by legislation.
 
yanno, you people are just friggin dense.

Greg, I addressed that LONG ago in this thread. Those laws can easily be justified without turning to cripture & I'm damned if I'm going to type it up all over again.

Bruce, people who do not believe as you do none the less have -and have had through history- the right to kill & eat critters. Yes, legislation will stop these people. No, it does not need to be based on your religious beliefs.

I think you're arguing just bc you want to. I'm tired of it. Don't come godding at me, I know where to go for salvation & it is not the government, nor is it people I don't even know on the internet.

Rest assured, what I said is what I stand & fight by. Keep religion out of my laws. I'll fight like a buzz saw to retain my freedom to not have another's choice of faith shoved down my throat. You have no idea how much.

My faith is my business. Not the govts and damned sure not yours.
 
Don't wanta be a wet blanket here guys, but while ya all are busy fight'n about religion and homosexuals, Obama (according to Fox News) now has the lead in delegates and is the probable nomanee of the demacrapy party.

Besides, I thought that this'n was suppose ta bee the "Ron Paul" thred? McCane and Huck both got more delegates last night. Nobody on Fox even mentioned Ron Paul. Does anybody know how he did?

--------------------
"we must all hang together, or we will surely hang seperatly ---Ben franklin
 
Stu, appreciate a voice of reason.

Bruce, I'm not calling you a "bible thumper".... I'm saying that my thoughts and beliefs are my own..... and will not be influenced by either "bible thumper's" or "agnostic's". My use of the words thumper and agnostic, is only ment to imply that I won't allow myself to be influenced by anyone, at either end of the religious belief spectrum.
As I said, it's not my style to persecute anybody, whether it's for their religious beliefs,political beliefs,sexual orientation, race or whatever. If you're happy disliking people based on how and who they choose to pray to, or for what they choose to do behind closed doors, or even their race or nationality, then God bless you. I'll choose to go on about my business, and attempt to treat all my fellow man with the same respect, until they've given me reason not to.
 
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yanno, you people are just friggin dense.

Greg, I addressed that LONG ago in this thread. Those laws can easily be justified without turning to cripture & I'm damned if I'm going to type it up all over again.

Bruce, people who do not believe as you do none the less have -and have had through history- the right to kill & eat critters. Yes, legislation will stop these people. No, it does not need to be based on your religious beliefs.

I think you're arguing just bc you want to. I'm tired of it. Don't come godding at me, I know where to go for salvation & it is not the government, nor is it people I don't even know on the internet.

Rest assured, what I said is what I stand & fight by. Keep religion out of my laws. I'll fight like a buzz saw to retain my freedom to not have another's choice of faith shoved down my throat. You have no idea how much.

My faith is my business. Not the govts and damned sure not yours.



Forget it stu. They want a religious dictatorship. They want religious persecution, as long as it is CHRISTIAN its ok.
 
I absolutely love the bunny with a pancake on it's head.

I also thought I was the only one who uses the phrase "no skin off my scrotum".

I'm having more fun reading this thread than if I participated in it.

I'm logging out and going to bed.

G'night.
 
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