Running shot coyote lead distance

The lead formula works the same whether you're stationary or swinging with the animal. The bullet doesn't care if you're using follow-through or not. No difference.

Show me the physics of your difference between 14-15 ft. of lead and 6" - 1 1/2 ft, cause you lost me there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Swinging with the target and maintaining the correct lead is, of course, the correct way to do it with a full or semi-auto weapon, there's no argument there, but the amount of lead is derived from time of bullet flight and target speed only, not slew rate of the barrel.
 
The old master Gerry Blair had stated (para-phrasing here) after it all worked out he would lead a coyote by 9 or 10' when they are between 200-300 yards. Hard to remember his exact writing as the was back in the 80's. While to his hunting partner (Is Chuck still around?) he wouldn't ever admit to it, he always accounted for a bit of luck with it in his articles.

That lead has worked well for me on coyotes out there aways. For 100 yards I generally just pull the trigger when I see the crosshairs over the boiler room. The only reason I can see this working is because my gun is usually coming up on the coyote from behind (trying to catch up) on these "snap" shots and by the time my brain talks my finger into pulling the trigger, my follow thru has gotten ahead of the coyote.

I don't know if there is a correct answer to your question. Your shooting style, follow thru, and/or bad habits will effect how much you lead put on a dog. The math can be worked out but other things effect the lead.

CB
 
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...because my gun is usually coming up on the coyote from behind (trying to catch up) on these "snap" shots and by the time my brain talks my finger into pulling the trigger, my follow thru has gotten ahead of the coyote.



Good explanation. I prefer to establish a lead and maintain it, but I still tend to shoot behind them if they're moving fast.
 
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but the amount of lead is derived from time of bullet flight and target speed only, not slew rate of the barrel


My point exactly, if the barrel is moveing in same direction as coyote the lead willbe reduced.

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Show me the physics of your difference between 14-15 ft. of lead and 6" - 1 1/2 ft, cause you lost me there.


I can't do that, but i can show you a bunch of dead coyotes that says i'm right.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

The formula that you posted requires you to swing past the coyote and stop swing at 15 ft in front and then pull the trigger..

When swinging the barrel and fireing as you go past the nose of coyote you are matching the speed of the coyote what has tobe allowed for is time of bullet flight and lock time. This will determin how much lead is needed.
So you need to convert the coyotes speed to FPS and then time of flight for the bullet to reach coyote and then add a second for lock time..You should come up with 15" or less depending on bullet speed..
 
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The math can be worked out but other things effect the lead.



You are correct there.
I'll touch on another subject that has helped me to increase my odds on running shots.
Lock-time: time it takes the gun to fire when trigger is pulled.
I use rifles with a Sako style stock, they have a little higher comb and more area on the cheek piece to weld youre face to so you can be more consistant with off hand shots.
next is a good crisp trigger set at 2 pounds or little more.
Next is the fireing pin and spring. You want to check and make sure they are not hitting the sides inside the bolt.
You can clean them up with some emory cloth or do like i did on a few rifles and go to a David Tubb fireing pin and spring. What you are trying to do is reduce youre lock time so when you put the cross hair on target and pull the trigger the bullet hits where you are aiming.
Take youre time on youre shots if you have the coyote running in a open area...
 
Wait for them to stop... range it... dial it... and hammer dog! I never shoot at running dogs... way too low percentage shot, and besides they almost always stop for a look before ducking into cover. I'd rather have a 450 yard shot on a stationary dog... than a 100 yard shot on a running dog. But hey, I practice shooting at a long range... I can't practice shots on moving targets.

If you're talking about a coyote that's running because you missed with the first shot... it ain't gonna stop. In that case... make a better shot to begin with.
 
Is it just me, or are some folks here trying to suggest you can throw a "curve ball" with your bullet by swinging the barrel in the same direction as the coyote is running?

That's crazy. The bullet flies straight once it leaves the barrel whether you're swinging the barrel or not.
 
I am talking about the second or third dog that runs as soon as his buddy gets the whack. Some times they stop but alot of times they don't even if you chnage sounds to try to stop them. This discussion is great I am learning alot.
 
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Is it just me, or are some folks here trying to suggest you can throw a "curve ball" with your bullet by swinging the barrel in the same direction as the coyote is running?

That's crazy. The bullet flies straight once it leaves the barrel whether you're swinging the barrel or not.



Ya think? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The lock time argument has some merit, that's why I establish a lead and maintain it. Then lock time is moot.

I was a mintenance technician on F-4 Weapons Control Systems in the 70's and I remember the inputs required to compute lead by the Lead-computing optical sight on the Vulcan 20mm. Range, range rate, antenna slew rate, relation to horizon, air speed and air density.

Since we're not shooting coyotes at 450 mph in a 6-g turn at 25,000 feet, you can ignore everything but range and slew rate. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Stiff neck LOL's
The bullet is going to strike pretty close to where you are pointing youre gun, but since youre target is moveing the bullet is going to hit far back or miss completely.
With the 15 ft. lead the coyote is going to run into the path of the bullet and hopefuly they both connect.

With the follow through shot you are elimiting the movement of the coyote, cause the rifle is moveing with the coyote, now you just have to compensate for the lock time and bullet flight..
Thats about the best i can exsplain it. if you don't get it or don't think it works then thats not my problem..
 
Lets say a coyote is running @ 25 mph, broadside. 25 x 5280=
132000/60min=2200 feet per min. 2200/60 sec equals close to 36 feet per sec (yes they run that fast). A 55 grain bullet @ 3200 fps has a time of flight to the target @ 200 yards of .214 sec. Now take 36 fps times .214= 7.7 feet. So by the time the bullet travels the distance from muzzle to the 200 yard mark the animal will be at least 7.7 feet from where is was when you pulled the trigger. Food for thought.
 
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Most of the time, at least for me, there aint time to mathmatically figure out distance, angle, speed etc. and come out with some kind of equation. Even if there was time I don't know if it would help. For me it's just a sight picture I've learned to recognize from years of jump shooting Jackrabbits. After shooting a few running jacks I've had people ask me "how far did you lead it?", I never have a solid answer. Throughout the course of a season I shoot quite a few coyotes that are moving...if they are within called ranges like a 100 yards or less and in terrain that supports a shot, I've never thought they were too tough a shot. Especially after a day of jump shooting jacks.
 
This would take a mathamatician because your bullet is going to slow down with distance. Every foot it is going slower and slower. Is the coyote running 20 mph or 30mph which is 33% faster unless you carry a radar gun I don`t think you could use a formula. Also I know very few people who can judge 175 yards from 200 yards at a glance. Like others have stated pratice might help but its a [beeep] Mary at best in my opinion. Plus unless your one of the guys in open - open country its a dangerous situation because of knowing whats behind your target when you pull that trigger because all you concentrations on the target.
 
I am in open county it doesn't get much more open than North Dakota. Also I think a person has about a 2.5 foot margin of error (lenght of a coyote) I just want to get one in them, I will finish the deal after that.
 
Many good points & opinions. My rule of thumb is 1-coyote length per 100yrds broadside. The rest is gut instinct & being comfortable with my rifle & a specific bullet.
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Many yrs ago, we used sighthounds to run Red Fox & coyote. Some of our fast dogs we clocked their top end, along side of our vehicle down the gravel road.

A rare flat-out stretched coyote is capable of top end of 50mph. Regular [joe blow coyote] stretched flat-out, low 40's top end.

I figure a fast lope around 20mph.

Then throw in wind speed & wind direction in the mix. If a coyote is running broadside from you & INTO the wind = more lead yet.
 
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"My rule of thumb is 1-coyote length per 100yrds broadside. The rest is gut instinct & being comfortable with my rifle & a specific bullet."

Very good rule of thumb and will work better than most.

Jack
 
Many good points & opinions. My rule of thumb is 1-coyote length per 100yrds broadside. The rest is gut instinct & being comfortable with my rifle & a specific bullet.
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Same here!

We hunt mostly snow covered farm ground. I tell anyone that's with me ......Check you back drop for houses, people ,ect... If clear start shootin! My motto is.. Just put a hole in'em! They are easier too track ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


I shot a red fox last winter ,full run quartering away @ just under 300 yards! I have 2 guys too back it up.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I'd rather be lucky than good! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tim
 
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