Safety on or off

I am reading about a lot of careless and unsafe behaviors being exhibited and then using the "safety on" as an excuse for those behaviors being acceptable. Such as muzzles pointed in an unsafe direction, such as towards themselves or others. That is NEVER acceptable even if the safety is on.

I won't criticize someone who wants their safety on until a coyote shows up. To each their own.

As far as chambering a round goes, well, that is one of the more dangerous times. Take the problems with the Remington 700. I love the platform, I have owned them. There seemed to be a problem with certain ones where the firearm would discharge when you closed the bolt regardless of whether the safety was on or not. A woman shot and killed her husband while chambering a round. She closed the bolt it went BANG. Why did her husband get shot? Because her rifle was pointed at him. I personally saw a Remington 700 discharge when the bolt handle was closed at a precision rifle match. But because the competitor had it pointed downrange, no one was injured.

I chamber when I start in the morning. Our state laws allow us to keep them loaded. I know that all states do not do this.

But the issue that some folks have with a chambered firearm are a bit perplexing given that the very same people seem to have no problem walking around with a LOADED and CHAMBERED firearm for concealed carry then have some kind of issue for carrying around a loaded and chambered firearm when they are out hunting.

T.A.B.+1

Treat all firearms like they are loaded
ALWAYS point them in a safe direction
Beware of your target and BEYOND
+1 Keep you finger OFF the trigger until you are ready to fire
 
Originally Posted By: SnowmanMoSafety goes off when we start the stand. A safety is mechanical device that can and will fail. The only safety is the booger hook off the bang switch and the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. When the stand ends and we go to break down the safeties go on, and the muzzles go in a safe direction away from others, whether up or down.

Bingo
 
Originally Posted By: SnowmanMo
As far as chambering a round goes, well, that is one of the more dangerous times. Take the problems with the Remington 700. I love the platform, I have owned them. There seemed to be a problem with certain ones where the firearm would discharge when you closed the bolt regardless of whether the safety was on or not. A woman shot and killed her husband while chambering a round. She closed the bolt it went BANG. Why did her husband get shot? Because her rifle was pointed at him. I personally saw a Remington 700 discharge when the bolt handle was closed at a precision rifle match. But because the competitor had it pointed downrange, no one was injured.

I chamber when I start in the morning. Our state laws allow us to keep them loaded. I know that all states do not do this.

But the issue that some folks have with a chambered firearm are a bit perplexing given that the very same people seem to have no problem walking around with a LOADED and CHAMBERED firearm for concealed carry then have some kind of issue for carrying around a loaded and chambered firearm when they are out hunting.

T.A.B.+1

Treat all firearms like they are loaded
ALWAYS point them in a safe direction[/font]
Beware of your target and BEYOND
+1 Keep you finger OFF the trigger until you are ready to fire

Absolutely, but I would add one more item in support of your A item above, Jason.

T.A.B.+2
+2 Never trust anything mechanical...it WILL fail and supports: (ALWAYS point them in a safe direction)

Not only were the 700's known to fire on bolt closure, often due to dirty or mal-adjusted triggers, they were prone to what Remington called FORS or FIRE ON RELEASE OF SAFETY.

In the mid to late ‘80’s, I purchased a new 40XC Rem. target rifle from a LGS, which I understood at the time to have been built by the Rem. custom shop using the 700 action. My rifle had the bolt lock type safety, making it impossible to open the bolt with the safety locked. The very first round down the tube was an AD, more specifically, using Remington’s acronym, an FORS. The trigger had not been adjusted and, my finger was no where near the trigger, yet the rifle discharged when the safety was pushed forward.

Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: hm1996Originally Posted By: SnowmanMo
As far as chambering a round goes, well, that is one of the more dangerous times. Take the problems with the Remington 700. I love the platform, I have owned them. There seemed to be a problem with certain ones where the firearm would discharge when you closed the bolt regardless of whether the safety was on or not. A woman shot and killed her husband while chambering a round. She closed the bolt it went BANG. Why did her husband get shot? Because her rifle was pointed at him. I personally saw a Remington 700 discharge when the bolt handle was closed at a precision rifle match. But because the competitor had it pointed downrange, no one was injured.

I chamber when I start in the morning. Our state laws allow us to keep them loaded. I know that all states do not do this.

But the issue that some folks have with a chambered firearm are a bit perplexing given that the very same people seem to have no problem walking around with a LOADED and CHAMBERED firearm for concealed carry then have some kind of issue for carrying around a loaded and chambered firearm when they are out hunting.

T.A.B.+1

Treat all firearms like they are loaded
ALWAYS point them in a safe direction[/font]
Beware of your target and BEYOND
+1 Keep you finger OFF the trigger until you are ready to fire

Absolutely, but I would add one more item in support of your A item above, Jason.

T.A.B.+2
+2 Never trust anything mechanical...it WILL fail and supports: (ALWAYS point them in a safe direction)

Not only were the 700's known to fire on bolt closure, often due to dirty or mal-adjusted triggers, they were prone to what Remington called FORS or FIRE ON RELEASE OF SAFETY.

In the mid to late ‘80’s, I purchased a new 40XC Rem. target rifle from a LGS, which I understood at the time to have been built by the Rem. custom shop using the 700 action. My rifle had the bolt lock type safety, making it impossible to open the bolt with the safety locked. The very first round down the tube was an AD, more specifically, using Remington’s acronym, an FORS. The trigger had not been adjusted and, my finger was no where near the trigger, yet the rifle discharged when the safety was pushed forward.

Regards,
hm

Well stated sir, as usual.
 
Originally Posted By: rtaylorSafety on until I have coyote in my scope. I had a buddy I used to dove hunt with that didn't use his safety in the dove field once he got set up. He had his muzzle pointed straight up and while reaching down to get more shells out of his bag his hand hit the trigger and blew his hat off his head. 2 or 3 more inches and it would have been lights out. I've never messed up a stand from a coyote hearing my safety.

Sorry, but that's just stupid. Removing the safety on a calling rifle after you have it in the full ready position for your stand is different than clicking the safety off on a shotgun you're waving around. When bird hunting, part of the shotgun mounting sequence is to disengage the safety. Pretty much the same when shooting a rifle free-hand. But when safely position in your shooting sticks and pointed in a safe direction, the safety can be disengaged.

Here's my sequence - leave truck, walk to stand, find good place to hide, place rifle on ground (bidpod) pointed in safe direction, walk out and place caller, return to hide, set up chair/pad/etc. and get sticks ready, retrieve rifle and place in sticks, get comfy, turn on remote, select first sound and get ready, confirm rifle secure in sticks and pointed in most likely direction, remove safety, start calling. When the stand is over, the very first thing is to re-engage the safety and confirm others have done the same. Then move the rifle and break down the stand.
 
Safety on until the shot presents itself. Finger off the trigger until I am ready to fire. One of the primary commandments of gun safety.

Based on replys about having the safety off I wouldn't hunt with many of you.
 
Normally on but sometimes I will take it off in the middle of the stand if I feel like something is coming, sometimes it works sometimes not.

Casey
 
Originally Posted By: jcs271Originally Posted By: DesertRam Here's my sequence - leave truck, walk to stand, find good place to hide, place rifle on ground (bidpod) pointed in safe direction, walk out and place caller, return to hide, set up chair/pad/etc. and get sticks ready, retrieve rifle and place in sticks, get comfy, turn on remote, select first sound and get ready, confirm rifle secure in sticks and pointed in most likely direction, remove safety, start calling. When the stand is over, the very first thing is to re-engage the safety and confirm others have done the same. Then move the rifle and break down the stand.

Dang Troy, I moved into my first apartment with less effort than that!


Aside from the walking part, it took longer to type it than do it.
smile.gif


My point was that safety is a focus at all times, and there are many steps and moving parts in the process of calling. The only time the safety is disengaged is when the firearm is in the ready position and could be fired at any time. If for any reason I need to give up full control (like if I want to use the binocular, or rangefinder, or check the wind with that little puffer thingy), the gun goes on safe. If I don't have full control, it's on safe. I see that as no different than waiting until Mr. Coyote is staring me in the eyes. When I have full control of the firearm and am not moving, I am comfortable disengaging the safety. If I do not or cannot have full control, or I need to change position, pull the rifle off the sticks, whatever, then the safety is engaged.
 
Originally Posted By: jcs271
DesertRam Here's my sequence - leave truck said:
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Click to expand...

LOL! Yeah, it sounds like a lot when you lay it out on screen, but the reality is that it takes just a matter of minutes. Most of us have a pretty well practiced and well rehearsed pattern.

Having hunted with Troy I can tell you that his set up technique is fluid and 100% safe and I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with him ANY day.

Those folks relying on safeties to keep them safe rather than safe techniques are a real danger to themselves and others.

Safeties don't AUTO set. They still have to be engaged. Relying on the safety and ignoring the other safety rules is more dangerous than disengaging a safety while on a stand and obeying the other safety rules.

Now, assuming that someone is obeying the other rules, TAB+1, then is there any problem with leaving the safety engaged while on stand? Not really. Have I seen coyotes react to the sound of a safety? Yep. Seen them turn and burn at the sound of the click. But you can learn to slide that safety off quietly enough so as not to spook them off. But does that safety engaged mean you are safe? Not necessarily. Having the safety engaged does NOT mean that you can point that firearm at something that you have not identified or that you can point that firearm in an unsafe direction. I have seen hunters behave unsafely because of the idea that a safety is keeping them and others safe.

I know that there are a lot of good hunters in this community. I know that the hunters advocating for keeping the safety disengaged are NOT advocating for unsafe behaviors with firearms. I think that the guys advocating for keeping the safeties on are also advocating for using the other rules for safe firearms handling.

Again I say to each his own. If you want your safety on, fine. If you want it off, fine. But BOTH are going to keep it pointed in a safe direction until they have identified the target or they won't be invited back.
 
Safety always on until ready to shoot. I don't want any surprise discharges from myself or anyone around me, even with muzzle pointed in safe direction. I've tried to pull the trigger on a few animals with safety still on. Still better than an accidental discharge.
 
I hunt by myself 95% of the time but my application never changes either way. My stand sequence is almost identical to Troy's. Only difference is I carry my gun to set out the caller. As stated, muzzle control and being ultra aware of your every move. Safety off for me.
 
Originally Posted By: jcs271[quote=DesertRam Here's my sequence - leave truck, walk to stand, find good place to hide, place rifle on ground (bidpod) pointed in safe direction, walk out and place caller, return to hide, set up chair/pad/etc. and get sticks ready, retrieve rifle and place in sticks, get comfy, turn on remote, select first sound and get ready, confirm rifle secure in sticks and pointed in most likely direction, remove safety, start calling. When the stand is over, the very first thing is to re-engage the safety and confirm others have done the same. Then move the rifle and break down the stand.

Pretty much the same thing for me with this one exception, i carry my rifle when i set up and remove my e-caller.
 
Originally Posted By: GhostmanSafety on until the shot presents itself. Finger off the trigger until I am ready to fire. One of the primary commandments of gun safety.

Based on replys about having the safety off I wouldn't hunt with many of you.

I wouldn’t hunt with someone who relies on a mechanical device (safety) to be safe with a weapon.
 
Originally Posted By: mattman215Originally Posted By: GhostmanSafety on until the shot presents itself. Finger off the trigger until I am ready to fire. One of the primary commandments of gun safety.

Based on replys about having the safety off I wouldn't hunt with many of you.

I wouldn’t hunt with someone who relies on a mechanical device (safety) to be safe with a weapon.

Choosing to leave the safety on until the shot is presented does not really equate to relying on it (the mechanical safety) to be safe. It is simply one more layer in the tool box. Anything mechanical can fail, just as any human can make a mistake, so why not take advantage of every safety option available?

Personally, I will refuse to hunt with anyone who is careless w/muzzle control quicker than whether he/she takes the safety off once settled in a solid shooting position. I do prefer that the safety remain engaged while walking to & from the stand as an added safety measure.

Case in point. Several years ago, I walked a quarter mile from the jeep to a stand while hunting nilgai. When I left the jeep, we had a couple of hours until dark and I failed to change from sun glasses to my progressive clear glasses. (Failure). As it got dark, I broke down the stand, lifting bolt (one more layer) and started back to the jeep. Due to my failure to have proper eyeglasses, I caught my boot toe under a root and did a face plant so quickly that I didn't have time to protect my rifle. I maintained muzzle control as best I could under the circumstances, but hit the ground so hard, with rifle in hand, that a cartridge was ejected and I had a torn ligament in my leg. There was no negligent discharge, but three layers of safety (muzzle control, safety on, bolt lifted), didn't hurt my feelings, or my partner's feelings a bit.

Regards,
hm

 
I have the safety on while on stand. It is second nature for me to slide the safety off before taking a shot. The safety on my rifles don't causes any significant noise. By the time a coyote hears the light click of my shotgun safety, it is too late for him to do anything about it. The most important thing in firearm safety for me is to never point the gun in a direction that could harm somebody. I would rather hunt with a guy that hunts with his safety off and drives around with bullet in the chamber, than the guy that swings an unloaded gun in my direction.
 
Originally Posted By: cmatera Off as soon a setup and pointing in a safe direction. On before I get up to end the stand.

^^^^ This! It's too thick where I go. I need to be able to react very quickly if an opportunity presents itself. The open area where they can come into view... the widest shot opportunity point is 45yds *maybe* 50yds across tops.

Concealed carry? It's a lil Mini-1911, so it's..."Cocked-and-Locked."

Pull it out, and it's "Down-to-Drown" with my thumb.
(Tto borrow an old-school DirtBike phrase regarding choke-lever on a carb)

P.S. - I live in KommieFornia, so have to do a Thorsden stock on my AR, so I can't reach the dang safety with the hand that is holding the stock!
 
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