I've been trying out a used pre-accutrigger Savage 10 youth model in excellent shape, with a sporter type barrel in .223 rem, and I believe a 1 in 9 twist...I de-coppered and cleaned the bore, mounted a scope and took it to the backyard to center it up. It took me maybe 6-8 shots. Then I tried a couple of groups @ 25 yds. The first 3 shots went into one .35 caliber hole, and then the next two groups of 3 opened up to about .63-.65"(using Federal Valu-Pak ammo from Wally World, 50 gr BTHPs w/ a "ball" type powder). I took it to the sand pit today for some longer range(about 85-90 yds, with about a 5 mph head wind). At this range the groups opened up to a best of 1.25-1.75"... Does this sound about right for this type of rifle and factory ammo? I do handload, but haven't put anything together for it yet. Shouldn't I be able to better these groups fairly easily with some good reloads? I'd like to see sub-MOA. Am I asking too much of it? Is the first 20 rounds I put through enough to copper the rifling up again so that accuracy would suffer? I did run a bore snake through, just to swab out the loose mung and that seemed to help a little. I have until tomorrow to bring it back and swap for a NEF Ultra Varmint in .22-250 that is like new, but I have never really liked the NEFs. Never had one other than a shotgun, but they just don't appeal to me like a bolt gun does. I have my doubts if it would do any better than the Savage, and would be pretty bummed if I did swap and found out the NEF was no better or even worse. HOWEVER, if I thought the NEF would be a better shooter, I'd go with it anyway, prejudices or no. Sorry for all the questions...I'm not looking for somebody to make my decision for me, just looking for input, shared experiences and opinions. Thanks.
Savage Model 10 accuracy issues?...
- Thread starter Bdawg
- Start date
Okiedigger
New member
I'd try some different ammo to start with. Check the action screws,make sure the barrel is floated, check the scope bases and rings. No way in HE77 would I recommend trading the savage for an NEF of any kind. IMHO of course /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Quote:
Forget the NEF! I also would not judge how your rifle shoots on one kind of factory ammo.
Yes, your barrel could copper foul on 20 rounds and the bore snake is not worth a hoot on getting out copper fouling.
Yeah, I only use the "snake" for a quick swab of the loose stuff...I've been using a foaming bore cleaner with patches and then a brush with solvent to get rid of copper. I was kind of in a hurry today and couldn't take time to go the whole route whilst at the pit. I pretty much expected those opinions on the NEF, and truthfully don't want to go that route. I have heard reports of the NEFs being pretty accurate for some folks, but those are usually few and far between. I guess for factory ammo and a fouled bore, maybe those groups weren't so bad then. I'll de-copper again and roll up some custom loads and see what it gets me. Thanks for the quick replys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Forget the NEF! I also would not judge how your rifle shoots on one kind of factory ammo.
Yes, your barrel could copper foul on 20 rounds and the bore snake is not worth a hoot on getting out copper fouling.
Yeah, I only use the "snake" for a quick swab of the loose stuff...I've been using a foaming bore cleaner with patches and then a brush with solvent to get rid of copper. I was kind of in a hurry today and couldn't take time to go the whole route whilst at the pit. I pretty much expected those opinions on the NEF, and truthfully don't want to go that route. I have heard reports of the NEFs being pretty accurate for some folks, but those are usually few and far between. I guess for factory ammo and a fouled bore, maybe those groups weren't so bad then. I'll de-copper again and roll up some custom loads and see what it gets me. Thanks for the quick replys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
jagrdawger
New member
I have not seen a savage yet that would not shoot 1 ragged hole with the right handload. I have not fired a factory centerfire load since the early eighties so I cannot judge factory ammo. Free floating the barrel and making sure there is no binding anywhere in the action is key. Ensure the tang (the area around the safety) is free floated as well since any touching there can definitely cause accuracy problems and even binding in the bolt.
Rustydust
Active member
Bdawg
If you trade that wonderful Savage back in on that NEF (Not Exceptional Firearm) see if the dealer will let you have an old rifle stock on the deal as well that you can use to beat yourself on and about the head with when you realize what a boneheaded thing that you did.
That NEF will never be nor can it be made into the gun that the Savage is right now. Keep it and find a load (easy!) that the gun likes. You will not be sorry that you did.
If you trade that wonderful Savage back in on that NEF (Not Exceptional Firearm) see if the dealer will let you have an old rifle stock on the deal as well that you can use to beat yourself on and about the head with when you realize what a boneheaded thing that you did.
That NEF will never be nor can it be made into the gun that the Savage is right now. Keep it and find a load (easy!) that the gun likes. You will not be sorry that you did.
Quote:
Bdawg
If you trade that wonderful Savage back in on that NEF (Not Exceptional Firearm) see if the dealer will let you have an old rifle stock on the deal as well that you can use to beat yourself on and about the head with when you realize what a boneheaded thing that you did.
That NEF will never be nor can it be made into the gun that the Savage is right now. Keep it and find a load (easy!) that the gun likes. You will not be sorry that you did.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif...I figured that I would probably be dissapointed with the NEF, but sometimes it's nice to hear other folks say it too...I think. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, Thanks again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Jagrdawger, it's floated, I can fit a dollar bill all the way back, but havent had the stock off of it yet. I'll check out the rest of it today probably. Thanks.
Bdawg
If you trade that wonderful Savage back in on that NEF (Not Exceptional Firearm) see if the dealer will let you have an old rifle stock on the deal as well that you can use to beat yourself on and about the head with when you realize what a boneheaded thing that you did.
That NEF will never be nor can it be made into the gun that the Savage is right now. Keep it and find a load (easy!) that the gun likes. You will not be sorry that you did.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif...I figured that I would probably be dissapointed with the NEF, but sometimes it's nice to hear other folks say it too...I think. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, Thanks again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Jagrdawger, it's floated, I can fit a dollar bill all the way back, but havent had the stock off of it yet. I'll check out the rest of it today probably. Thanks.
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dan newberry
New member
Federal Valu-Pak ammo from Wally World, 50 gr BTHPs...
That ammunition, if you can call it ammunition, was "aimed" (loosely speaking here, of course) at a niche market, that being the Ruger Mini 14 association of LA (lower Alabama) here hold my beer and watch this cuz I got two thutty round clips taped tuh-gethur yuk yuk blam blam blam blam jam %$#!$ blam blam blam blam blam blam yuk yuk blam blam blam blam I dun kilt that Budweiser box dedder-n-hell d'jew see that $#!T Billy Bob??!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Again, it's a niche market that Federal was thinking of when they created that junk...
So don't feed a quality rifle with yuk yuk fodder. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Dan
That ammunition, if you can call it ammunition, was "aimed" (loosely speaking here, of course) at a niche market, that being the Ruger Mini 14 association of LA (lower Alabama) here hold my beer and watch this cuz I got two thutty round clips taped tuh-gethur yuk yuk blam blam blam blam jam %$#!$ blam blam blam blam blam blam yuk yuk blam blam blam blam I dun kilt that Budweiser box dedder-n-hell d'jew see that $#!T Billy Bob??!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Again, it's a niche market that Federal was thinking of when they created that junk...
So don't feed a quality rifle with yuk yuk fodder. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Dan
TwoSeventy
New member
Seeing the bashing that the NEF is getting, I have to come to it's defense. The NEF rifles can be great shooting rifles. They generally are not that way out of the box, but with a little work they can really be a good economical firearm.
The NEF factory triggers are really bad. Mine was about 7lbs. Cleaning up the trigger and bringing it down to 2 or 3 pounds is THE most important part of getting them to shoot good. Mine will consistently shoot a cold bore shot into a spot the size of a nickel at 100 yds. Don't need any more accruacy than that in a hunting rifle.
That said, If I had my pick between a NEF or a Savage model 10, I would no doubt take the Savage.
The NEF factory triggers are really bad. Mine was about 7lbs. Cleaning up the trigger and bringing it down to 2 or 3 pounds is THE most important part of getting them to shoot good. Mine will consistently shoot a cold bore shot into a spot the size of a nickel at 100 yds. Don't need any more accruacy than that in a hunting rifle.
That said, If I had my pick between a NEF or a Savage model 10, I would no doubt take the Savage.
Okiedigger
New member
Quote:
That ammunition, if you can call it ammunition, was "aimed" (loosely speaking here, of course) at a niche market, that being the Ruger Mini 14 association of LA (lower Alabama) here hold my beer and watch this cuz I got two thutty round clips taped tuh-gethur yuk yuk blam blam blam blam jam %$#!$ blam blam blam blam blam blam yuk yuk blam blam blam blam I dun kilt that Budweiser box dedder-n-hell d'jew see that $#!T Billy Bob??!!
Easy now, I resemble that remark. I gots kin-folk in LA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
That ammunition, if you can call it ammunition, was "aimed" (loosely speaking here, of course) at a niche market, that being the Ruger Mini 14 association of LA (lower Alabama) here hold my beer and watch this cuz I got two thutty round clips taped tuh-gethur yuk yuk blam blam blam blam jam %$#!$ blam blam blam blam blam blam yuk yuk blam blam blam blam I dun kilt that Budweiser box dedder-n-hell d'jew see that $#!T Billy Bob??!!
Easy now, I resemble that remark. I gots kin-folk in LA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
blinddog
New member
You want to especially check the action screws on that Savage I have the same model in 270WSM it was shooting .5" groups @100 Yards on a regular basis, then opened up to 1.5" I found the action screw had backed out to the point it was not even finger tight. I find that Savage rifles tend to copper foul when real new. You might try lapping the barrel. Or just shoot and clean several hundred rounds to smooth things out. That rifle was most likely never broke in properly and that is why the barrel fouls so fast.
NEF is ok is you need a cnaoe paddle or somthing to bounce around behind and under the seat of your Pick up and maybe shoot once in a while. But if you want a rifle that will acctualy hit what you shoot at, keep the Savage. It can be made a lot better with a small but of time and work
NEF is ok is you need a cnaoe paddle or somthing to bounce around behind and under the seat of your Pick up and maybe shoot once in a while. But if you want a rifle that will acctualy hit what you shoot at, keep the Savage. It can be made a lot better with a small but of time and work
Quote:
1)I've been trying out a used pre-accutrigger Savage
2)The first 3 shots went into one .35 caliber hole, and then the next two groups of 3 opened up to about .63-.65"(using Federal Valu-Pak ammo from Wally World, 50 gr BTHPs w/ a "ball" type powder).
3)I took it to the sand pit today for some longer range(about 85-90 yds, with about a 5 mph head wind). At this range the groups opened up to a best of 1.25-1.75"... Does this sound about right for this type of rifle and factory ammo?
4)I do handload, but haven't put anything together for it yet. Shouldn't I be able to better these groups fairly easily with some good reloads? I'd like to see sub-MOA. Am I asking too much of it? Is the first 20 rounds I put through enough to copper the rifling up again so that accuracy would suffer?
1) You seem to have checked the obvious (scope tight, action screws tight, barrel free floated, etc.). How is the trigger? Pre-accutriggers can be made quite acceptable by a good smith. If trigger is rough and/or heavy, very difficult to shoot bug hole groups even with good ammo.
2) Have to agree w/Dan on the WWorld bulk ammo. Some rifles shoot anything you feed them, others are a bit more cantankerous. My FP10 shoots everything I tried in it well under an inch @ 100 (didn't try the WW bulk /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif). It really likes the 55 gr. Nos. BT's in front of H335 powder @ 3300 fps (a hot load but no pressure signs in my rifle). Usual precautions apply.
3) What type of rest are you using? Naturally, accuracy will not be as good off the tailgate of a truck as it can be off of a solid bench/rest. 1.25" may not be too bad over the hood or tailgate, but I would expect a bit better from a good rest.
4) Factory ammo has improved a great deal in recent years, but it is hard to beat a quality crafted handload tailored for your rifle. Most Savage rifles that I have had the opportunity to shoot will do moa or better w/good ammo.
How many rounds do you think the rifle has through it? The FP10 is the only Savage that I purchased new and, while it shot sub moa from the very start w/quality ammo (even w/Winchester white box /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif), the barrel was a bit rough and copper fouled pretty badly for the first 100 rounds or so.
As stated, it did not seem to hurt the accuracy, but I usually only shot 20-30 rounds between cleaning. After 100 rounds or so, it slicked up and now cleans very easily.
If your rifle has low round count, you may be picking up enough copper to affect accuracy.
For what it's worth, I don't think you have determined that the rifle is not a shooter. Give it a chance with several different factory loads (or better yet, work up a good handload) before giving up on it. JMHO.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
Regards,
hm
1)I've been trying out a used pre-accutrigger Savage
2)The first 3 shots went into one .35 caliber hole, and then the next two groups of 3 opened up to about .63-.65"(using Federal Valu-Pak ammo from Wally World, 50 gr BTHPs w/ a "ball" type powder).
3)I took it to the sand pit today for some longer range(about 85-90 yds, with about a 5 mph head wind). At this range the groups opened up to a best of 1.25-1.75"... Does this sound about right for this type of rifle and factory ammo?
4)I do handload, but haven't put anything together for it yet. Shouldn't I be able to better these groups fairly easily with some good reloads? I'd like to see sub-MOA. Am I asking too much of it? Is the first 20 rounds I put through enough to copper the rifling up again so that accuracy would suffer?
1) You seem to have checked the obvious (scope tight, action screws tight, barrel free floated, etc.). How is the trigger? Pre-accutriggers can be made quite acceptable by a good smith. If trigger is rough and/or heavy, very difficult to shoot bug hole groups even with good ammo.
2) Have to agree w/Dan on the WWorld bulk ammo. Some rifles shoot anything you feed them, others are a bit more cantankerous. My FP10 shoots everything I tried in it well under an inch @ 100 (didn't try the WW bulk /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif). It really likes the 55 gr. Nos. BT's in front of H335 powder @ 3300 fps (a hot load but no pressure signs in my rifle). Usual precautions apply.
3) What type of rest are you using? Naturally, accuracy will not be as good off the tailgate of a truck as it can be off of a solid bench/rest. 1.25" may not be too bad over the hood or tailgate, but I would expect a bit better from a good rest.
4) Factory ammo has improved a great deal in recent years, but it is hard to beat a quality crafted handload tailored for your rifle. Most Savage rifles that I have had the opportunity to shoot will do moa or better w/good ammo.
How many rounds do you think the rifle has through it? The FP10 is the only Savage that I purchased new and, while it shot sub moa from the very start w/quality ammo (even w/Winchester white box /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif), the barrel was a bit rough and copper fouled pretty badly for the first 100 rounds or so.
As stated, it did not seem to hurt the accuracy, but I usually only shot 20-30 rounds between cleaning. After 100 rounds or so, it slicked up and now cleans very easily.
If your rifle has low round count, you may be picking up enough copper to affect accuracy.
For what it's worth, I don't think you have determined that the rifle is not a shooter. Give it a chance with several different factory loads (or better yet, work up a good handload) before giving up on it. JMHO.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
Regards,
hm
Quote:
...3) What type of rest are you using? Naturally, accuracy will not be as good off the tailgate of a truck as it can be off of a solid bench/rest. 1.25" may not be too bad over the hood or tailgate, but I would expect a bit better from a good rest...
...How many rounds do you think the rifle has through it? The FP10 is the only Savage that I purchased new and, while it shot sub moa from the very start w/quality ammo (even w/Winchester white box /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif), the barrel was a bit rough and copper fouled pretty badly for the first 100 rounds or so.
As stated, it did not seem to hurt the accuracy, but I usually only shot 20-30 rounds between cleaning. After 100 rounds or so, it slicked up and now cleans very easily.
If your rifle has low round count, you may be picking up enough copper to affect accuracy.
For what it's worth, I don't think you have determined that the rifle is not a shooter. Give it a chance with several different factory loads (or better yet, work up a good handload) before giving up on it. JMHO.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
Regards,
hm
Ummm yep...on bags both times, but a fairly solid bench at home, and on the hood of the Jeep at the pit...another good point /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif ...I have no clue about the round count, but would not be suprised if it is low. I guess we'll just hafta let her eat for a while and see what she likes.
...3) What type of rest are you using? Naturally, accuracy will not be as good off the tailgate of a truck as it can be off of a solid bench/rest. 1.25" may not be too bad over the hood or tailgate, but I would expect a bit better from a good rest...
...How many rounds do you think the rifle has through it? The FP10 is the only Savage that I purchased new and, while it shot sub moa from the very start w/quality ammo (even w/Winchester white box /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif), the barrel was a bit rough and copper fouled pretty badly for the first 100 rounds or so.
As stated, it did not seem to hurt the accuracy, but I usually only shot 20-30 rounds between cleaning. After 100 rounds or so, it slicked up and now cleans very easily.
If your rifle has low round count, you may be picking up enough copper to affect accuracy.
For what it's worth, I don't think you have determined that the rifle is not a shooter. Give it a chance with several different factory loads (or better yet, work up a good handload) before giving up on it. JMHO.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
Regards,
hm
Ummm yep...on bags both times, but a fairly solid bench at home, and on the hood of the Jeep at the pit...another good point /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif ...I have no clue about the round count, but would not be suprised if it is low. I guess we'll just hafta let her eat for a while and see what she likes.
KaiserNorton
New member
Regarding cheapo factory ammo. I've tried it all in my .223s - Federal American Eagle, Remington/UMC, Winchester/USA- the Winchester white box has it all over the others. By far the most accurate. Scary accurate in my Kimber- almost pointless to reload. Plus, it is decent brass when you are done. That is what I call a Win/Win. No pun intended.
Kaiser Norton
Kaiser Norton
Chupathingy
New member
Quote:
Regarding cheapo factory ammo. I've tried it all in my .223s - Federal American Eagle, Remington/UMC, Winchester/USA- the Winchester white box has it all over the others. By far the most accurate. Scary accurate in my Kimber- almost pointless to reload. Plus, it is decent brass when you are done. That is what I call a Win/Win. No pun intended.
Kaiser Norton
I use the 52gr. Blackhills match ammo for hunting yote's, But the Federal American Eagle's have shot bug holes out of my Savage and have even dropped a few yote's too. I'm all for using the best ammo you can afford, but I have NO complaints with the Federal's at all. Now if I knew anything about hand loading I would probably never use factory stuff again except maybe for breaking in a barrel.
Regarding cheapo factory ammo. I've tried it all in my .223s - Federal American Eagle, Remington/UMC, Winchester/USA- the Winchester white box has it all over the others. By far the most accurate. Scary accurate in my Kimber- almost pointless to reload. Plus, it is decent brass when you are done. That is what I call a Win/Win. No pun intended.
Kaiser Norton
I use the 52gr. Blackhills match ammo for hunting yote's, But the Federal American Eagle's have shot bug holes out of my Savage and have even dropped a few yote's too. I'm all for using the best ammo you can afford, but I have NO complaints with the Federal's at all. Now if I knew anything about hand loading I would probably never use factory stuff again except maybe for breaking in a barrel.