Scopes that actually hold zero

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varminter .223

Well-known member
Who actually has a scope that consistently will hold a good enough zero to be truly .5 moa. Im not talking about 3 shot groups and accidental groups. Anything will do that now and again. I mean true .5 moa or better set ups that will repeat day in and day out. If you have one, what kind is it?
 
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every scope i have will do that. but i dont have any barska, simmons, nc star, blister pack bushnells or other crap china made scopes.

edit to add, i have leopolds, upper level bushnells and some older made nikons from when they were still made decent.
 
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Can the shooter hold .5 MOA day in and day out? There are a lot of other outside variables that play with .5 moa groups. You cant put all the blame on the scope.
 
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Originally Posted By: Lefty SRHCan the shooter hold .5 MOA day in and day out? There are a lot of other outside variables that play with .5 moa groups. You cant put all the blame on the scope.

I assure you if your scope won't hold zero the rest of the equation doesn't matter. I have several weavers and a zeiss that aren't holding that are going to get sent in. I want to know what people have had good luck with so I know what to get. I am plagued with bad scopes that are of the decent variety. As much as I wonder if or hope that it is something else I know it isn't. I can dry fire the rifles from the bench and watch the reticle shift when the hammer falls or firing pin drops. Very ironic that my poi shift is exactly the same direction, frequency and degree to which the reticles are shifting.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Who actually has a scope that consistently will hold a good enough zero to be truly .5 moa. Im not talking about 3 shot groups and accidental groups. Anything will do that now and again. I mean true .5 moa or better set ups that will repeat day in and day out. If you have one, what kind is it?


Schmidt & Bender
All day long if I do my part.
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Indont feel like any of my Nighhtforce scopes shift that much. Just asking, no feathers ruffled, what bases and rings are you using and are they properly mounted and torqued?
Factory ammo or hand rolled ammo?
Theres still tons of other factors. Is your brass annealed?
Bullet jumps consistant?
 
Originally Posted By: Lefty SRHIndont feel like any of my Nighhtforce scopes shift that much. Just asking, no feathers ruffled, what bases and rings are you using and are they properly mounted and torqued?
Factory ammo or hand rolled ammo?
Theres still tons of other factors. Is your brass annealed?
Bullet jumps consistant?

I have taken too many steps to list to assure accuracy. When I noticed 2 distinct groups and two different rifles doing the exact same thing with the same scope I then I decided to check my scopes and bingo reticles shift up hammer fall. I am not going to ruin any more of my life trying to shoot half moa with scope that have reticles that shift 1.5 moa. When you get that kind of reticle shift on an AR 15 hammer fall imagine what recoil does. I am not determining my scope have issues by bullet poi. I am watching as the rifle is dryfired.
 
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Many kinds of rifles, many kinds of rings and bases both lapped and unlapped, many chamberings, many handloads lol. AR wild cats are my thing these days. Scopes are junk.....not my loads and not my rifles and not my shooting. A rifle shouldn't print loads at .5" then the group moves, then a flyer then back to the original hole. Then you dryfire the rifle while watching the reticle and allbderned movin just like my groups
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I don't need a single grain of propellant to see if a scope is not holding.
4 v16s
1 3-9 conquest MC
1 Brunton Eterna ..........................all won't hold on an AR hammerfall!
These scopes are not adjusted beyond the usable range of their adjustments per the manufacturer either.
 
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I guess just about every scope I have holds zero. I have scopes by Leupolds, Bausch & Lomb, Bushnell, Nikon, Burris, Alpen optics, Weaver, Mueller, Hensoldt, and a Hertel & Ruess, all hold zero. In the past I've even had a Tasco target scope that worked very well.

I tend to think you have other problems, or very bad luck in scope purchases.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Many kinds of rifles, many kinds of rings and bases both lapped and unlapped, many chamberings, many handloads lol. AR wild cats are my thing these days. Scopes are junk.....not my loads and not my rifles and not my shooting. A rifle shouldn't print loads at .5" then the group moves, then a flyer then back to the original hole. Then you dryfire the rifle while watching the reticle and allbderned movin just like my groups
scared.gif


I don't need a single grain of propellant to see if a scope is not holding.
4 v16s
1 3-9 conquest MC
1 Brunton Eterna ..........................all won't hold on an AR hammerfall!
These scopes are not adjusted beyond the usable range of their adjustments per the manufacturer either.

I can't help but believe there are some other problems involved here too. I know it is very frustrating and gets worse the longer it persists.
I will say Zeiss has quit repairing the Conquest for bad erectors failing to hold zero. I sent one in and they sent me a new Conquest HD which is a completely different very nice scope.
I have a Leupold that has held the POI for decades on a large bore magnum.
About 11 V series weavers have faithfully held and one V-16 was on the infamous scope killer air rifle while holding .3 groups. As is known air rifles are more brutal on scopes than a large bore rifle. Once fried a brand new Redfield in one shot on this rifle.
 
Whatever you do don't get a magnetic grid boresighter, stick it on the muzzle of your gun, and watch what happens when you change magnification and/or parallax with many optics/mounting systems. You'll wonder how you hit anything over the years.
 
I know no one wants to do it but buying nice bases, rings, mounts etc from the get go can eliminate lots of issues. All my rifles have high end bases with either seekins/nightforce/arc rings. All Ar's use bobro mounts with the exception of one.

For scopes, ever since I've stuck with mid-high end German or Japanese made units I haven't had a problem. In fact I don't think I've had to send a scope in for 6 or 7 years now. Life is too short to have equipment that isn't trustworthy or can't produce the best accuracy possible.
 
Originally Posted By: Lefty SRHOk, I think its best to send them in and have them checked. That will rule out the scopes for sure.

Maybe maybe not. I have seen scopes come back claiming no problem, but still don't make the grade. Over on the bench rest forum every once in a while there will be a discussion about this very thing, some of the best reputation companies have the most complaints
 
To answer your question which scopes hold zero. You didn't mention a price range but the ones I have found that work for me and I know will hit where you aim every time are: Atholon Ares Btr ($879), Atholon Argos Btr ($379), Burris Droptine ($259), and Burris Verocity ($799) I know there are better ones out there for sure and probably better in the price range but I pretty well stick with those because none of them have failed me. The Atholons are a relatively new purchase and each one has maybe 250-300 [beeep] on them but they hold zero and track very well. The Verocity is just a decent all around scope, and the Droptine I have 4 and 2 track great 1 is purdy darn close and one well don't crank the knob cuz it ain't gonna track but will hold zero perfectly. If the Atholons hold up they will definitely be repeat purchases.
 
I've had all sorts of scopes from bubble pack Bushnells, a Barska, package rifle Nikons, up to $1000-1200 Nikon Tactical, high end Bushnell, Burris XTR IIs, and an even more pricey Vortex Golden Eagle.

Across these dozens of scopes I have had exactly two that would not hold zero. One was a high end Bushnell that likely got weak springs controlling the erector after years of use on a heavy recoiling rifle (Bushnell repaired). The other was a Barska Tactical that crapped out after actually being a good value in both holding zero and tracking true dialing for range for ~4 years on my primary hunting muzzleloader.

IMHO you are going down the wrong rabbit hole. If you are "plagued by bad high end scopes" smart money says it isn't the scopes at the root of it.

Are you messing with the action screws on these rifles? More details needed.

In my experience, once a scope craps out, it doesn't just move small groups around the target. It doesn't shoot small groups anymore. If you can fire the gun and see the crosshairs move on the target, your erector would need to be incredibly sloppy inside the tube to allow that to happen. I've never seen or heard of anything like that. Something else in your setup or technique is likely behind this.
 
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I have to ask this, do you wear contact lenses? I have had cataract surgery with implanted lenses and if I get to the edge of my lens the reticle will appear to jump and yes the group will move, not enough to ruin a shot on a coyote and at the bench it is easy to keep the image centered.
 
Either a scope moves and is unacceptable, or it does not move and works properly...I am not sure what you mean by "holding .5 MOA"????? Moving .5" at 100 yards is not acceptable and not a good scope. Movement, no matter how much, is not acceptable.
As far as which scope holds zero, I have had several Leupold Mark4 M1 10x fixed power scopes and none of them ever moved. Back when people first started to shoot shoulder fired 50 cal weapons this was the only scope out there for a good while that would hold zero and not sustain damage from the repeated heavy recoil. Not the best optics in the world, but it wont break or mess up. I would say that the Burris Posi-Loc wont move either.
Not defending anyone's scopes, as any of them can and will fail to maintain zero, but in 40 years of shooting rifles and shotguns with scopes I have only seen 2 that factually failed. I have seen close to 100 that were unjustly blamed for it though....just sayin'
I think what you might be seeing is the upper and lower receivers move in relation to each other when you are dropping the hammer. Very little felt movement between the receivers can really look like a big deal thru a scope, especially if it is turned up in power. Unless you have some kind of "anti movement" device, set screws, {even an Accu-wedge is better than nothing} there will be movement.
What do these scopes look like if you put them on a long action bolt gun and do this dry fire thing?????
 


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