timb
New member
This is kind of a long post, but outlines this lady's conversation with a Greensburg, KS resident of what went on after last May's tornado wiped out the town.
I received this email from a very good friend of mine who is on the Kansas Rifle Association Board with Patricia. She is a very reputable lady, having won the Marion Hammer Award from the NRA.
If this can happen in Western Kansas, we are all in trouble--once again, this is something that was never brought up in the media.
Hope I did not ruin your day. If you would like the original email, send me a PM, and I will get it to you. I am researching the Kansas HB she is referring to to see what it pertains to. I am assuming it has something to do with the Emergency Powers legislation she refers to later in her text.
Regards,
Tim
Well, the hearing was an enlightening day. Jordan and I were able to
> spend a couple hours with a gentleman from Greensburg before the
> hearing and I was shocked by what we were told. As far as the hearing
> itself, it looks like out of the 17 committee members we have 12 in
> favor and 5 against but that is based soley on the 12 saying they will
> "probably" support the bill and they are "A" rated by NRA. We have not
> gotten the vote results yet. After we were done they had another bill
> to hold hearing on and they did not work the bill or vote at that
> time. They will probably work it and vote next week.
> I'll keep you posted on that.
>
> As far as Greensburg, here is the shocking truth. I will simply state
> the facts. First of all, understand that it is not lawful to carry out
> a mandatory evacuation unless martial law has been declared. Martial
> law was NOT declared and folks in the town were told they had to leave
> and some were forced to leave at gun point because they didn't want to
> leave.
> The tornado
> happened at 9:46pm and they were forced to leave within a couple hours
> of it, being given no time to collect themselves or assess the damages
> or even try to pick up anything such as guns and valuables to take
> with them. Ed Klummp, Police Chiefs Association, testified against the
> bill and said the evacuations were so they could search for bodies and
> shut off gas and power.
> This town was locked down tight for 4 days and no one was allowed in
> or out.
> The only people in that town those 4 days were Sheriffs Officers,
> KansasHighway Patrol Officers, ATF, FEMA, National Guard, Police
> Officers from surrounding areas and some volunteers from Ft. Riley.
> They claim no one else was there or could have gotten in and out. Many
> guns and other valuablessuch as jewelry have gone permanently missing
> and have never been recovered.
> There were some houses that were not destroyed and were in tact at one
> end of town. Those folks did not want to leave but were forced to
> leave. When they returned they found their front doors kicked in and
> all of their guns and jewelry missing. Guns and ammo that were
> collected were taken to a trailer (18 wheeler size) and an ATF agent
> manned the trailer.
> When people
> first came to collect their guns they had to fill out a 4473 and get a
> nics approval before they could claim their guns. No one had
> paperwork, receipts,or lists of serial numbers because it had all
> blown away.
> Later into the
> process they quit demanding these items. Apparantly many guns were
> claimedby not the rightful owner. One man had 75 guns that did not
> belong to him, which he was busted for trying to sell. In one of the
> houses they bustedinto they found 5 full auto guns, C-4 explosive,
> grenades and a rocket launcher. This gentleman claimed to be ex
> military and kept them from that time. He was not charged as it was
> determined to be an illegal search and seizure. The people in
> Greensburg are a close, tight knit community, everyone knows everyone
> kind of place. They were very resentful of government coming in and
> telling them what they had to do. They would have preferred to stay
> and help each other locate valuables and guns and not leave their
> property. In one case, in the collection trailer, a gun box was
> claimed by one man who had a very nice gun in it and when he opened
> the undamaged and closed box, not a mark on the box, he found an old
> rusted gun that was not his. Supposedly, 2 police officers from
> Wichita who were part of the task force during the 4 day evacuation
> were fired because they were found to have stolen guns and trying to
> sell them. The comment made to us was that none of the really nice
> guns were found. The main source of this information was a gentleman
> from Greensburg who is an FFL and has a gun shop outside of town and
> he is also a gunsmith. He sold a good portion of those guns to people
> in Greensburg and also has been working to repair many of their guns
> in the aftermath. When he went to claim his guns, from his home, not
> his shop as the shop was in tact, and they did not break in the shop
> and take anything, he said the ATF agent basically told him to take
> anything he wanted. There was no collection list and guns were NOT
> cataloged for location of discovery or anything like that.
>
> Now just a quicky of what my opinion is. The folks in that town had
> their constitutional rights violated from the get go. I am appalled at
> what happened there and can tell you I would never leave my property
> under those circumstances. I guess those over zealous government
> agents would have to shoot me which was a close case almost scenario
> in Greensburg but the citizens gave in. I would not give in. The
> people in that town who werealready traumatized by the tornado were
> further traumatized by governmentofficials. If there were no civilians
> and no looters then where are all the missing guns. Funny how all the
> missing guns are the nicest, most expensiveguns. Also funny how there
> was no media coverage of any of this and it was kept very hush, hush
> but then we all know the media and what cxxp they espouse to.
>
> As this bill moves through the process the entire population of KS
> needs to raise it's voice in the loudest manner to see to it the bill
> gets passed.Once it passes out of the House committee it will go to
> the Senatecommittee. People need to educate themselves on what their
> rights are in times of disaster. The folks in Greensburg thought they
> didn't have a choice about leaving because that's what they were told
> and that was a lie.
>
> PEOPLE NEED TO GET INVOLVED!!! Yes, I just shouted that. I was shocked
> by the fact that only 3 people turned out to attend the hearing to
> support our side, other than those of us who testified. The NRA sent
> an alert out to its members in KS, I sent an alert out to my 2000
> member database urging them to come in support and 3 people show up.
> There is power in numbers.
> When a
> hearing room is full of proponents, legislators take notice.
>
> I was terribly angered by what I found out Thursday and feel very bad
> for the people of Greensburg. It literally made me sick to hear all
> this and wish I had been told when it was happening. There had been a
> few rumors but the rumors were vague with no actual evidence or proof
> and were not first hand detailed accounts. The people of Greensburg
> will never be the same.Emergency Powers Legislation has been passed in
> 22 other states and is actively going through the process of being
> enacted in several other states.
> The NRA has made it a priority to see to it that it gets passed in all
> 50 states. We need to support the NRA in this effort.
>
> If this doesn't give us all a wake up call, I don't know what will.
> __________________
>
> Patricia A. Stoneking
I received this email from a very good friend of mine who is on the Kansas Rifle Association Board with Patricia. She is a very reputable lady, having won the Marion Hammer Award from the NRA.
If this can happen in Western Kansas, we are all in trouble--once again, this is something that was never brought up in the media.
Hope I did not ruin your day. If you would like the original email, send me a PM, and I will get it to you. I am researching the Kansas HB she is referring to to see what it pertains to. I am assuming it has something to do with the Emergency Powers legislation she refers to later in her text.
Regards,
Tim
Well, the hearing was an enlightening day. Jordan and I were able to
> spend a couple hours with a gentleman from Greensburg before the
> hearing and I was shocked by what we were told. As far as the hearing
> itself, it looks like out of the 17 committee members we have 12 in
> favor and 5 against but that is based soley on the 12 saying they will
> "probably" support the bill and they are "A" rated by NRA. We have not
> gotten the vote results yet. After we were done they had another bill
> to hold hearing on and they did not work the bill or vote at that
> time. They will probably work it and vote next week.
> I'll keep you posted on that.
>
> As far as Greensburg, here is the shocking truth. I will simply state
> the facts. First of all, understand that it is not lawful to carry out
> a mandatory evacuation unless martial law has been declared. Martial
> law was NOT declared and folks in the town were told they had to leave
> and some were forced to leave at gun point because they didn't want to
> leave.
> The tornado
> happened at 9:46pm and they were forced to leave within a couple hours
> of it, being given no time to collect themselves or assess the damages
> or even try to pick up anything such as guns and valuables to take
> with them. Ed Klummp, Police Chiefs Association, testified against the
> bill and said the evacuations were so they could search for bodies and
> shut off gas and power.
> This town was locked down tight for 4 days and no one was allowed in
> or out.
> The only people in that town those 4 days were Sheriffs Officers,
> KansasHighway Patrol Officers, ATF, FEMA, National Guard, Police
> Officers from surrounding areas and some volunteers from Ft. Riley.
> They claim no one else was there or could have gotten in and out. Many
> guns and other valuablessuch as jewelry have gone permanently missing
> and have never been recovered.
> There were some houses that were not destroyed and were in tact at one
> end of town. Those folks did not want to leave but were forced to
> leave. When they returned they found their front doors kicked in and
> all of their guns and jewelry missing. Guns and ammo that were
> collected were taken to a trailer (18 wheeler size) and an ATF agent
> manned the trailer.
> When people
> first came to collect their guns they had to fill out a 4473 and get a
> nics approval before they could claim their guns. No one had
> paperwork, receipts,or lists of serial numbers because it had all
> blown away.
> Later into the
> process they quit demanding these items. Apparantly many guns were
> claimedby not the rightful owner. One man had 75 guns that did not
> belong to him, which he was busted for trying to sell. In one of the
> houses they bustedinto they found 5 full auto guns, C-4 explosive,
> grenades and a rocket launcher. This gentleman claimed to be ex
> military and kept them from that time. He was not charged as it was
> determined to be an illegal search and seizure. The people in
> Greensburg are a close, tight knit community, everyone knows everyone
> kind of place. They were very resentful of government coming in and
> telling them what they had to do. They would have preferred to stay
> and help each other locate valuables and guns and not leave their
> property. In one case, in the collection trailer, a gun box was
> claimed by one man who had a very nice gun in it and when he opened
> the undamaged and closed box, not a mark on the box, he found an old
> rusted gun that was not his. Supposedly, 2 police officers from
> Wichita who were part of the task force during the 4 day evacuation
> were fired because they were found to have stolen guns and trying to
> sell them. The comment made to us was that none of the really nice
> guns were found. The main source of this information was a gentleman
> from Greensburg who is an FFL and has a gun shop outside of town and
> he is also a gunsmith. He sold a good portion of those guns to people
> in Greensburg and also has been working to repair many of their guns
> in the aftermath. When he went to claim his guns, from his home, not
> his shop as the shop was in tact, and they did not break in the shop
> and take anything, he said the ATF agent basically told him to take
> anything he wanted. There was no collection list and guns were NOT
> cataloged for location of discovery or anything like that.
>
> Now just a quicky of what my opinion is. The folks in that town had
> their constitutional rights violated from the get go. I am appalled at
> what happened there and can tell you I would never leave my property
> under those circumstances. I guess those over zealous government
> agents would have to shoot me which was a close case almost scenario
> in Greensburg but the citizens gave in. I would not give in. The
> people in that town who werealready traumatized by the tornado were
> further traumatized by governmentofficials. If there were no civilians
> and no looters then where are all the missing guns. Funny how all the
> missing guns are the nicest, most expensiveguns. Also funny how there
> was no media coverage of any of this and it was kept very hush, hush
> but then we all know the media and what cxxp they espouse to.
>
> As this bill moves through the process the entire population of KS
> needs to raise it's voice in the loudest manner to see to it the bill
> gets passed.Once it passes out of the House committee it will go to
> the Senatecommittee. People need to educate themselves on what their
> rights are in times of disaster. The folks in Greensburg thought they
> didn't have a choice about leaving because that's what they were told
> and that was a lie.
>
> PEOPLE NEED TO GET INVOLVED!!! Yes, I just shouted that. I was shocked
> by the fact that only 3 people turned out to attend the hearing to
> support our side, other than those of us who testified. The NRA sent
> an alert out to its members in KS, I sent an alert out to my 2000
> member database urging them to come in support and 3 people show up.
> There is power in numbers.
> When a
> hearing room is full of proponents, legislators take notice.
>
> I was terribly angered by what I found out Thursday and feel very bad
> for the people of Greensburg. It literally made me sick to hear all
> this and wish I had been told when it was happening. There had been a
> few rumors but the rumors were vague with no actual evidence or proof
> and were not first hand detailed accounts. The people of Greensburg
> will never be the same.Emergency Powers Legislation has been passed in
> 22 other states and is actively going through the process of being
> enacted in several other states.
> The NRA has made it a priority to see to it that it gets passed in all
> 50 states. We need to support the NRA in this effort.
>
> If this doesn't give us all a wake up call, I don't know what will.
> __________________
>
> Patricia A. Stoneking
