Seeking advice for "starter" varmint rifle

2

2few

New member
Hi all,

Looking for advice on a "starter" varmint rifle. I'm stuck here in CT where there is not much varmint hunting available. Several years ago I went to visit a childhood buddy who now lives in Bozeman, MT. We fished, camped, saw some of the parks, but most importantly, went on a "gopher safari". Not a full scale PD shoot, just drove around for a day "wacking and stacking" with .22s. But it got me HOOKED! Now that I'm single and don't have to support a shoe collector, I want to get into the varmint game a bit. So I'm looking for a rifle for a hoped for trip west next spring/summer. I surely could use some advice from some of you PROS. As I said I'm looking for a "starter" varmint rifle and I'm not wealthy, so please don't suggest guns that will cost $1,000 +++.

I've done some homework (probably not enough) and am leaning towards a .223-probably a Savage. I'm hoping to get out West once or twice a year for PD/Yote/Jacks. I know the .223 doesn't really have the LOOOOOOONG range authority, but the ammo is cheap (I don't reload)and this is a starter gun. What do you all think about the .223?

My reading suggests the Savage guns with the accu trigger are reasonably priced and pretty darn good shooters "out of the box". I've got to say though, I'm a little confused by Savage's "alphabet soup" of varmint rifles. On the whole, though, they seem to have two levels...a basic "varmint" gun with black synthetic stock and medium weight running $500-$600 and a more specialized varmint gun with laminate stock and HEAVY bbl running $800-$900.

I'd be grateful for your thoughts on this subject. If you reccommend one of the Savage guns, could you please give me your opinion if the difference between the two Savage levels is worth the $300 to $400 difference. Thanks.

Thank you to all who take the time to respond to this post
 
i love the savage line get the acutriger it is a must for good hunting , you can ajust the triger your self in minutes, i use a hmr 17 for small groung diggers up to 200 yards with out haveing to hold off, the 223 is great for everything elts but i personly like the savage and marlin for the first gun , cheep and good , you can spend a hole lot more if you want , tactial timmy
 
Thanks, Rock...Tacital,

Since you both feel Savage makes a good "starter" gun, do either of you have any strong feelings about their basic "varmint" gun VS. heavy bbl synthetic stock (I think its the 12 series).

What about the .223? Loved it in the M-16, back in the early 80s....is it the right cartridge to start out with for western varmints?
 
223 is very good round for pdogs and gofers. I had a 223 and had no complaints. For a first varmint rifle you can't go wrong. I shoot the 204R because it shoots flater like a 22-250 with out the recoil, can see the hits. I work with a guy that has a 223 Savage and loves it. If you are planing on shooting pdogs I say get the fat barrel. They don't heat up as fast as a skinny barrel.

Good luck on your quest!
 
I have a Savage M10 FP.

Similar to the model 12, but has a 24" bbl, vs a 26" barrel.
It's also matte finished.
I like it. Very accurate.

Yes, it's a .223..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Lots of good advice from the guys above. I also shoot a 204, but I reload. for a non-reloader the 223 is probably the best way to go.

As far as rifle choice Savage makes an excellent rifle and lots of folks like the Accu-trigger. Another you might look at is the CZ 527 Varmint. That's what I have in 204 and it's available in 223 also.

The good points about the CZ is the wonderful single set trigger. Mine is set on 6 ounces in the set mode and 3 pounds unset. Just push the trigger forward about 1/4 inch when your ready to shoot and you have a trigger in the ounce range instead of the pound range. Another plus about the CZ is the Varmint model weighs 7/2 pounds naked and that makes it a versatile gun both for coyote sets and PD fields.

Both the CZ and the Savage deliver excellent accuracy. Here's a place to look at pricing on the CZ's.

http://www.whittakerguns.com/

Here is a place to look at the CZ guns.

http://www.cz-usa.com/
 
Thanks Bob, for the advice and websites. That set trigger on the CZ sounds like a GREAT feature! I haven't had the opportunity to try either the CZ SST or the Accu-trigger, and here in CT we lack for places where I could go and get a chance to try each out. So my decision making is pretty much limited to info I can gather here on the web.

Can anyone out there give me any thoughts on the advantages/disadvantages of the Savage Accu-trigger VS. the CZ SST?

So far no one seems to feel that the .223 is the wrong choice for a "starter" varmint rifle for a non-reloader. Anyone with arguments against?
 
i dont know about the accu trigger or the cz
but i have a stevens mod 200 .223(savage) it doesnt have the accu trigger but you can adjust it on your own
i am shooting dime sized grps(5-shot) at 100 yds it shoots very well i hand load but with the factory black hills i was getting dime and nickle sized gps at 100
the stevens is 280 bucks on their

that leave you some money for nice scope, rangefinder, and a must gun cleaning kit if you dont already have one
thats just my opinion
i use mine from woodchucks to deer


josh
 
Here are some of my thoughts.
1. The .223 is a great choice for a first or last varmint rifle. Good accuracy and great barrel life. Great choice of off the shelf ammunition and it's priced well.
2. Rifles. Savage is a great choice and they have many models to choose from. The 12FV is blued with the synthetic stock. The 12FVSS is stainless with a fluted barrel and has a synthetic stock. The 12BVSS has a nice wood laminate stock and a stainless fluted barrel. The 12VLP is a "slimmed down" wood laminate stock with a stainless fluted barrel.
I have the 12FVSS and love it. I took off the factory original stock and replaced it with a $100 Bell and Carlson Duramx stock and that was a big improvement. In my opinion if this rifle is just going to be used for prairie dogs I would get the 12BVSS. I really like the feel of the stock as it is heavy and seems to ride shooting bags nicely. The only reason why I chose the FVSS is because it is a little lighter and I also use it for coyotes. I also believe the 12FV would be a great first varmint gun but I would also probably replace the factory stock with a stock that has a wider forend. Hope all of this helps.
BP
 
Thanks Bob, for the advice and websites. That SST on the CZ sounds like a GREAT feature! I haven't had the opportunity to try either the CZ SST or the Accu-trigger, and here in CT we lack for places where I could go and try each out (heck, its hard to even find other shooters around here). So my decision making is pretty much limited to info I can gather here on the web.

Can anyone out there give me any thoughts on the advantages/disadvantages of the Savage Accu-trigger VS. the CZ SST?

So far no one seems to feel that the .223 is the wrong choice for a "starter" varmint rifle for a non-reloader. Anyone with arguments against the .223?
 
Well, you won't ever forget to SET the AccuTrigger. I have both and a toss-up for me..excellent triggers, IMHO. I had several .223's before I got back to PD shooting..good cartridge..I use both .223's and .204's on colony varmints..do not hunt coyotes in FL yet but seeing more in the last few years.
 
Both are good systems for fire control on a rifle. Savage introduced a new Varmint accu-trigger a while ago that adjusts down to 1.5 pounds I believe.

The CZ trigger is a true set trigger and can be adjusted to the ounce range and still used as a standard trigger. The CZ American weighs just over 6 pounds naked and my Varmint model 7.2 pounds. That makes both light enough for a walk around rifle.

One advantage of the CZ 527 is the whole rifle was designed around the 223 sized case which makes it more compact than the Savage which uses an action basically designed around the 308 sized case making for a heavier more bulky rifle.

Don't get me wrong both the Savage and the CZ are excellent rifles and both exhibit great out of the box accuracy. I personally feel the single set trigger is an advantage, but I've friends shooting the accu-trigger and are extremely happy with that system also.

Bottom line is you really need to get into a gun store where you can shoulder and fondle both rifles and see what feels more comfortable to you. You simply can't go wrong with either in this case.
 
Unk, Thank you! Evidently you have experience with both the Savage Accu-trigger AND the CZ SST. I wish I could get a chance to try them both out as has been suggested. Regrettably, CT is NOT! a state that is friendly to shooters. Few ranges, few clubs, few shooters. Here in CT joining a club would be expensive ($1000+ initiation fee), take a long time (waiting list) and frankly, I'm not the kind of guy they want in gun clubs around here. My clothes aren't "country casual" and I'd rather have 10 $1,000 guns than 1 $10,000 gun. Guess I'm just a peasant.

Given your experience with both the Savage Accu-trigger and the CZ SST, if you were going to buy a "starter" varmint rifle, which way would you go....? Savage or CZ? In a way, it doesn't matter whish way I go-either gun will probably shoot better than my capabilities, but if YOU were going to spend less than $900 on a PD/varmint/yote rifle which way would you lean....CZ or Savage?

Thanks for the advice....Kris
 
Actually, I am really a closet AR shooter[RRA EOP .223] but if I were buying a starter bolt rifle for PD/varmints for a son it'd be the CZ 527 in .223.

Trust me you really have a win-win choice.

I feel your pain on your range/gun club situation...but do you have to join to shoot? In my area, and at my club,[West Central FL] we welcome the public as day shooters. At my club for example you would find guys like me that would be glad to let a responsible shooter try a rifle or two. Example I whining to a couple of friends about two(2) carry handle ARs that I can no longer shoot well[aging eyes] and saying I thought I'd buy a RRA EOP 16" upper..before I knew it I had a scoped Bushmaster and another flat top upper pushed on me to play with...rough to have friends like that..NOT.

Best wishes with whatever you choose.
 
i know the best rifle for you !!! go out with friends and shoot theres you can find what you want for free and dont have to worie what one to buy but rember to help buy ammo..
i personaly like the hmr 17 with wood stock and bull baroll
for small game , why ,, it is heavy and acurate , and you can see through the scope as it hits the target , now that is COOL !!! i also have a savage p10 308 bull baroll love it to but never get to see it hit the target like my small bore, but trying to find the best gun is like the best fishing pole , that can go on for ever,,,LOL,,,
so go out and try your friend guns, oh one more important thing i love my ar 15 ,, but hate to clean it , my hmr 17 takes 1 forth the time to clean, and when you find the gun you like see if you can aford the ammo , good luck my brother, tactical timmy
 
Your thoughts on the .223 are right on but you might not be looking at the big picture. I love my .223, it will flat detonate a prairie dog and is about as accurate a rifle as i'll probably ever own. I shot more praire dogs this spring with this rifle than any other rifle. Definately the workhorse of my set up. Now, having said that, you might want to price factory ammo. If you're planning any kind of trip to go shoot varmints, this could get real expensive. Tactical Timmy suggested the .17 HMR and this could be exactly what you want. I wouldn't recomend this if you had mentioned coyotes or anything else for that matter but for ground squirrels and prairie dogs, this caliber really shines. I bought a case of .17 HMR ammo for prairie dogs for $114.90, that's 500 cartridges, and my son shot every one of them in two days time. Now, go and price 500 rounds of descent .223 Rem ammo and see what you come up with. Even Black Hills remanufactured ammo is $30-$45 a box of 50. If you liked shooting prairie rats with the old .22lr, you'll love the little .17 hummer. You can pick up a Savage or Marlin .17 HMR, both great rifles, for around $200. The CZ .17 is more in the ballpark of $400 and I'm pretty sure they don't use the SST on the .17 but it would still be a SWEET rifle. Now, in case none of the above helped, and you're still bent on the .223, get the CZ. You'll love it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
The 223 will be around longer than any of the rimfires AND they will shoot long range.

I have four model 12 Savage rifles in 223 and one that I chambered in 223 AI. The Savage rifles have 1:9 twist barrels, long range is not a problem. Longest confirmed kill this year - 688 yards. Longest confirmed kill last year - 848 yards.

At this time, it would be an excellent time to learn or start reloading. I use Mid South Varmint Nightmare 55 gr SP bullets (Hornady soft point bullets) - they sell for $149/2000 (7.5 cents per bullet). 8 pounds of powder for $132 (25 gr/round = 6.6 cents per round). Primers - 25/1000 (2.5 cents per round). 1x fired brass - $50-$70/1000 (5 cents per round).

At most, you will have 7.5 + 6.6 + 2.5 + 7 = 23.6 cents per round or $236 per 1000 rounds.
 
2few...

If you wanna see the rifles, go to Hoffman's Guns on the Berlin turnpike in Newington. They have anything you want to look at. They just bought a new building (a BIG building)... they are one of the biggest gunshops in all of new New England with several hundred guns on display at all times, and a bunch in the back, and about 45 minutes from you.

You could probably get some dummy to buy you a cheeseburger while you are down there.

They are ten minutes from me. (It's like being on the twelve step program and living next door to a liqueur store /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif ).

There are some issues with the CZ. The receiver can't take standard Weaver style rings, and the ones from CZ are...well, limited.

When you set up a riffle for loooong range PDs, you want all the elevation you can get - and that means you set up the scope so the 100yd zero is at the BOTTOM of the elevation turrets travel - then you have all up, cuz you will need it.

You can't do that with the CZ.


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