Seeking advice for "starter" varmint rifle

Hey Unk,

Know what you mean about shooting ranges/clubs being open to the public. I miss my many years of living in Virginia; there was a gun store there, Clarke Brothers, with a range out back...free so long as you bought your ammo there. The only two ranges I know of around here to shoot center fire are strictly private. Just a sight in weekend before deer season and a few turkey shoots every year. Ct is not a great state for folks who think a good weekend ends with a bruised shoulder. Shotgunning is OK around here, a fair amount of sporting clays, but at $50 per round and up plus shells it can be an expensive sport and it aggravates me; I really need to take some lessons.

But for rifles, this is a tough state. No target practicing on state land, no center fire on state land for hunting, clubs cost a fortune. I'll do some more checking online on clubs with "open to the public" days, but the 2 that I know of within 1/2 an hours drive don't have open to the public days. CT's gun laws are not the worst in the world, but its really not a "shooter friendly" state. Ah well, one day I'll get back to Virginia or maybe I'll just check it all and move out west. For now though, my elderly mother makes staying here a requirement.

Sympathize with you about the eyes. Mine are not what they used to be. Back in my early 40s they went to he!! in a handbasket and haven't gotten any better since.

I like shooting ARs too. Any semi for that matter. But the laws on "black guns" here are so confusing that even my brother in law (state cop)isn't sure whats legal and whats not. So my AK stays locked up and I haven't gotten to play "rock and roll star" since I left VA. Soon.

Bob, Thank you for the reccommendation of the CZ and the Whittaker site. Price is surely right. Have you bought from them?

Best...Kris
 
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Thank you ALL for the great advice. Given that that this is a "starter" rifle and as well as a trip out west for PD I might have to head over to NY for a crack at yotes, I think I'll go with the .223. Other than ammo costs has anyone got any arguments against the .223?

Duckdog...Your point about ammo costs is well taken. Before I head out west for the PD trip I'll see if I can't pick up an inexpensive .17.

Yoopereh, since you are good with the .223, but warn against the wrong model of rifle, what model would you pick? I'm looking for a starter varmint rifle that will serve well for a trip west for PDs, but also be OK for a stab at yotes here in the east. Given that, what would your choice of model be?

Catshooter....A trip to Hoffman's sounds like its definitely a requirement. You live 10 minutes from there? Its a wonder you're not living in your car and towing a trailer full of guns! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks again all. Look forward to hearing more opinions on what model rifle to go with.

Regards....Kris
 
I have 17 cals (both HMR and 17 Rem) 204, 221 FB, 223 cals and custom barrelled 220 Swift. I dont take my 243 or 25/06 'cause there too much boom and kick for me and I like to see the hits.

So, I have had 2 Savage bolt guns and two CZ bolt guns- all in different calibers. Dollar of dollar and pound for pound I guess it sure be hard to beat a Savage. Both of mine have shot on several occasions 5 shots you can cover with a dime and see nothing but paper. One of my targets is even on display at a Boise gun shop. If you miss a prairie dog with a Savage don't be blaming the gun. You would have missed it with a $3000 rig just as handily.
 
Get a Savage 12FV in .223. You will want to reload, military brass is available in quite a few places for around 7 cents a piece, processed.

I got a Simmons 6-245 scope from Natchez for 75 bucks or so with a mil dot reticle.

That gets you going for less than 600 bucks.

The advantage of the .223 is that you can get the brass.

Use 40 grain bullets and it will run right with the .204.

I have 2 PD guns in .223 and shoot them the most.

HM
 
all good sugestion but i think still if you can go out with some guys and shoot theres brfore buying one, if you come to medford OR.. i will take you out for free and you can shoot all the rifels...BUT AND THERE IS ALWAYS A but you have to help me clean them , LOL good luck bro , god bless . tactical timmy
 
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im with IDBOB on the CZS that sst is wicked my 17 varmint unset is abour 2.4lbs, set it is in the 10-12 ounce range you can buy a cz for a starter rifle and never have to replace it later on they are strong accuarate guns i have 2 of them cz 527 varmint 17 rem, cz 527 american in a hornet i think when czs get there name out there more the big companys will have there hands full. I have a savage 10 204 ruger with the accutrigger it is a very nice trigger for a factory gun but not comparible with the cz sst just my 2 cents either gun you chose will do the job for you
 
Thanks kunas. The CZ SST surely sounds like a right sharp trigger for long range shooting. Anyone else have any thought about Savage VS. CZ for a "starter" varmint rifle? Anybody with a third suggestion?

Thanks
 
I have a BVSS in 223. I took it to Wyoming this year on 2 PD shoots. I will wack'em at long ranges. I have handled the CZ's, they are nice but the BVSS for a bench type rifle cant be beat, plus when you burn out the barrel you can install a new one yourself at home with a barrel wrench and go/nogo gauge, cant do that with a CZ.

As far as other rifles, you said
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As I said I'm looking for a "starter" varmint rifle and I'm not wealthy, so please don't suggest guns that will cost $1,000 +++.



The only other rifles I own that shoot better than my BVSS cost alot more than 1,000
 
There is one more option.

Buy a Savage or Stevens action (new or used) ($200 - 300), an aftermarket barrel (abou $250), and a B & C Duramaxx stock ($125) and build the rifle.

Realistically, $200 + $250 + $125 = $575 for a semi custom rig.
 
If you decide to go 17 HMR, the CZ 453 comes with SST. That will allow you to shoot on public lands as its rimfire and not centerfire. There's got to be groundhogs in CT. I'm lucky and live close to Whittakers but they ship guns all over the country. When I'm there the phone rings off the hook practically. They have a huge selection of CZ center and rim fire. Here's a part of the centerfire offerings:
ultra6a.jpg

They have one of each model out and you can take it if you like the wood or get a boxed one unseen. I think they had trouble with people trying to cherry pick nice wood. I think the CZ 17HMR would be your best bet. I have one in 22lr and love it, I also have a Savage 10 in 223 with Accu-trigger you won't go wrong with either choice. Biggest factor in your case seems to be state laws.

peace.
unloaded
 
first I'll say what I think a varmint rifle is....
I think it is a heavy barreled highly accurate gun to shoot from a bench off a rest or a bipod.....

I first bot a savage fv in 223 with a black plastic stock....
I traded it for a 12 bvss with a laminated stock and stainless steel and stainless barrel.... the bvss is a gun I will never sell it is highly accurate and I liked it a lot better than the FV just for stability of the stock off the bench and for looks....
then I went PD shooting for the first time and shot a 204....

I have since bot 3 204s .... it is flatter shooting than the 223 and less wind drift....... becuz it has more velocity.....
I have a rem xr 100 in 204 and a savage fv in 204.... both are highly accurate...... and I don't burn up the barrel on any one gun...I can rotate the 204 and the 223... I Like the FV as one of my guns..... I didn't like it as much when it was my only gun... I don't know if that makes sense or not just my whimsy....

for a starter gun It would be hard to beat a fv or bvss or vlp savage in 204.... with the accutrigger..... I think you would like the 204 better if you go PD shooting.... I think factory ammo in 204 is all pretty good and accurate.... It will cost a little more for ammo than 223 .... but if you can get some ammo from a manufacturer like one of the guys on this board I think it is buchannan ammor it might not be as much more as you think..... if you do much varmint rifle shooting you might get hooked on reloading

I love the 223 also..... but if all the barrels are cool I will almost always reach for the 204s first if the varmints are 300 yards out there or more....

buy a good scope if you can..... buy the cheaper savage if it helps buya better scope..... I had to work my way up to better scopes....I wish i had bit the bullet on a vxIII or a 4200 b&l to start with....

R
 
For p-doggin my all time favorites now are my savage 12, 204's. A VLP and a BTVSS. A bit heavy for a carry rifle for yotes, but ideal on the bench in a target rich field. They were both under 1/2" right out of the box. The accu-trigger and the heavy stainless barrel were the main selling features for me.
My next 204 purchase will be one in a lighter version. I am leaning towards a CZ-527 varminter or I may just get another savage in a lighter weight model.
 
Gube204....Thanks for the input. If this was going to be strictly a PD gun, I'd definitely go with one of the heavy Savages (although the Savage website doesn't list the VLP....what is that???) but since I also want the flexibility to tote this new rifle for our Eastern coyote,a rifle weighing in at 10 lbs naked seems a little heavy.

I'm getting this decision narrowed down. It'll be a .223-either a Savage or a CZ. Models and prices listed below. Anyone with any strong feeling as to which one I should select?

Savage:
FVSS...heavy stainless 26" fluted BBL, black synthetic stock, 8.75 lbs, around $660.

FV...Same as FVSS but blued unfluted BBL around $535

25 Lt Wt Varmint...Blued 24" fluted BBL, laminate stock, 8.25 lbs, around $600

CZ 527 varmint...Blued 24" "heavy" BBL, laminate stock, 8 lbs, around $655

Prices are for web purchase including delivery and FFL holder transfer fee.

Anyone with any feelings about these. Do I really need a stainless BBL? Is there a huge benefit to a fluted BBL?

CatShooter mentioned there being some issues in scope mounting with the CZ....not being able to use weaver bases makes it tough to set up for real long range. Anyone familiar with this? I checked on this on the CZ forum and saw some mentions of adapters to let the CZ use weaver bases, but my post there has not yeilded any clear answer.

Again, thanks to all for your generous advice. I'm getting this selection narrowed down. I'd appreciate your help in finishing this decision making.

Edit....My first instict is get the FV ($535) and spend the $$$ I save on the best glass I can afford. But that gives up the fluted stainless BBL. The model 25 gives me back the fluting and gets me a laminate stock (pretty!)but now its blued and 2 inches shorter. The FVSS gives me back the 2", stainless and fluting, but its 1/2 lb heavier and cuts $125 out of my glass budget. And at that price I'm at the same price as the CZ. What to do?!?
 
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CatShooter mentioned there being some issues in scope mounting with the CZ....not being able to use weaver bases makes it tough to set up for real long range. Anyone familiar with this? I checked on this on the CZ forum and saw some mentions of adapters to let the CZ use weaver bases, but my post there has not yielded any clear answer.



Let me know what you find - I have a CZ and would LOVE to have a Weaver adapter.


.
 
Hey CatShooter...I've been trying to figure this out on the CZ forum. www.czforumsite.com or perhaps www.czforumsite.info/index.php. I wish I knew how to import my post there to here. I posted on this over there 2 or 3 days ago, but its a fairly quiet site over there and while some people have read my post, no one has responded yet. Anyway, knowing more about rifles and scope mounting than I do, if you want take a look on that forum. On the first page of the "CZ Rifles" section there is a thread "cz-527 scope mount adapters" In it one person suggests www.kalinkaoptics.com, also someone else says that Bsquare makes an adapter. There are also a couple of older threads on this subject. Perhaps with your greater knowledge on this subject you can figure it out. Meantime I'll keep reading and checking my thread over there to see what I can find out.
 
I saw some Howa 1500 packages for sale at Scheels the other day. $469.00 if I remember right. Check around and see if any dealers in your area have them.
If you don't mind a used rifle any heavy barrel bolt action that will group under an inch (preferable under 1/2") at 100 yards. Any 22 centerfire from .222 Remington on up.
As for your cartridge choice, it's just fine. You might want to consider reloading, in the end it doesn't save you anything just lets you do a lot more shooting for the same money.
 
Good praire dog/bench rifles dont make good calling rifles, and vice versa. Scopes are to high in magnifaction, triggers set pretty light, and all around heavyweights. Any of the rifles you mentioned would go 9+ even 10 pounds scoped. Thats alot to haul around, I used to and wont do it anymore. Yea it can be done but I'm just sayin' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

If the main purpose is a bench shooter, then get a bench style gun and use it for that. If you want a calling rifle, get something in the 6lb range, thats light and fast on swing. Have ya got a shotgun you can use for calling in the time being? Yea its more money but down the road you'll be alot more happier with rifles that are purpose specific.
 
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Catshooter.

Check out the Millett line of rings for the CZ.

Chuck



Hey Chuck...


Here's the thing.

When you plunk down your $500+ for a scope and mount it in "anybodies" rings, you get one half of the elevation you paid for.

So if your scope has 40 moa of elevation (which is typical), you will get ~20 moa, might even get 15 moa, cuz the scope is mounted parallel to the barrel.

Burris makes a nifty set of rings called the "Signature" line, and it allows you to mount the scope so the 100yd zero is at the bottom of the elevation adjustment so you have ALL of the up available.

They are available for the Weaver base, but they don't make them for the CZ base /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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