Semi-auto vs. Bolt?

The lure of a semi auto always sounds good to me/ After switching several times I end up going back to a bolt rifle with a detachable magazine.
Smaller lighter, quieter, way more comfortable to carry, still accurate.
 
Originally Posted By: dhc-6Buy one now than buy the other later, nothing written that say you can only have one coyote rifle!
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Originally Posted By: dhc-6Buy one now than buy the other later, nothing written that say you can only have one coyote rifle!
I seem to resemble that remark
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I have several very accurate AR's, an R-15 in 223, a Delton lower/DPMS upper in 223, and a very excellent shooting 6.8 SPC. They are all rifles that I have taken coyotes with, and most likely will again. BUT, at least 9 times out of 10, I will be found using a bolt action rifle. I grew up shooting bolt guns, and just prefer them over an AR. I have doubled on coyotes several times, and once killed 3 on a stand, so it can be done with a bolt action. However, where I hunt it is a rare thing to call in more than one. Coyotes are just not as easy to call in and kill than they once were, and I want a rifle in my hand that I know will do the job, and for me it is one of my bolt guns. I would be just as confident using an AR, but I just feel more at home with a bolt action rifle.
 
Originally Posted By: kymailman98I have several very accurate AR's, an R-15 in 223, a Delton lower/DPMS upper in 223, and a very excellent shooting 6.8 SPC. They are all rifles that I have taken coyotes with, and most likely will again. BUT, at least 9 times out of 10, I will be found using a bolt action rifle. I grew up shooting bolt guns, and just prefer them over an AR. I have doubled on coyotes several times, and once killed 3 on a stand, so it can be done with a bolt action. However, where I hunt it is a rare thing to call in more than one. Coyotes are just not as easy to call in and kill than they once were, and I want a rifle in my hand that I know will do the job, and for me it is one of my bolt guns. I would be just as confident using an AR, but I just feel more at home with a bolt action rifle.

I may be as confident using a semi-auto as well, but I definitely feel more at home with a bolt gun. Yes, I'd have several more rifles if I could afford to, but I'm not to that point yet. One or the other for now will most likely be a bolt, and save for something else down the road in a year or so.
 
Originally Posted By: IAyoteHNTRAbsolutely nothing wrong with a bolt gun whatsoever, but when adding in the "fun" factor when practice/fun shooting and the fact that some idiot conservative wanna be politician tells me I "shouldn't" have one because they're dangerous and scary because some nut job used one to kill somebody somewhere, my choice was easy.
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idiot conservative? surely you must be mistaken. idiot liberal yes, though there are a few people out there that claim to be conservative AND be anti-gun, no true conservative is anti-gun.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3The lure of a semi auto always sounds good to me/ After switching several times I end up going back to a bolt rifle with a detachable magazine.
Smaller lighter, quieter, way more comfortable to carry, still accurate.
I'm not so sure about that one. Just some quick specs.
RRA Coyote Carbine 16in bbl, Magpul ACS stock- 33 3/4 long, 9lb 10oz(Leupy Mark AR, loaded 20rd pmag)
Remmy 700 in 243- 46in long, 9lb 5oz(Leupy VXIII, +8rds in a stock band to make the round count more fair, and I didn't feel like taking it off)

Sound wise, same(at least I bet you couldn't tell when shooting at a yote). Size, AR wins collapsed, extended... same. Lighter, I can't tell the difference 5oz makes in the field, can you? Both group sub MOA. Both have taken about the same amount of critters and have been used about the same amount.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just pointing out that the differences are so minor that they're not worth bringing up. They both work, and work very well. Quicker follow up vs making a better first shot... Whatever... That all sound great until you get out there and things that always happen... happen. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE SHOOTERS PREFERANCE, the end. Stick with what you like to use. If you want to try something different, do it. But make sure you give it the same chance you gave what you're used to. If you do that, I bet you'll find the difference isn't worth half a pinch of sh%# dust.
 
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Originally Posted By: mutthunterOriginally Posted By: tripod3The lure of a semi auto always sounds good to me/ After switching several times I end up going back to a bolt rifle with a detachable magazine.
Smaller lighter, quieter, way more comfortable to carry, still accurate.
I'm not so sure about that one. Just some quick specs.
RRA Coyote Carbine 16in bbl, Magpul ACS stock- 33 3/4 long, 9lb 10oz(Leupy Mark AR, loaded 20rd pmag)
Remmy 700 in 243- 46in long, 9lb 5oz(Leupy VXIII, +8rds in a stock band to make the round count more fair, and I didn't feel like taking it off)

Sound wise, same(at least I bet you couldn't tell when shooting at a yote). Size, AR wins collapsed, extended... same. Lighter, I can't tell the difference 5oz makes in the field, can you? Both group sub MOA. Both have taken about the same amount of critters and have been used about the same amount.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just pointing out that the differences are so minor that they're not worth bringing up. They both work, and work very well. Quicker follow up vs making a better first shot... Whatever... That all sound great until you get out there and things that always happen... happen. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE SHOOTERS PREFERANCE, the end. Stick with what you like to use. If you want to try something different, do it. But make sure you give it the same chance you gave what you're used to. If you do that, I bet you'll find the difference isn't worth half a pinch of sh%# dust.

Quote:Remmy 700 in 243- 46in long, 9lb 5oz(Leupy VXIII, +8rds in a stock band to make the round count more fair, and I didn't feel like taking it off)

What a slanted comparison. Really! 9 lb 3 oz. and 46 in. My .300 Win Mag doesnt even come close to that. Most guys around here are packing much shorter and certainly much lighter than that. in fact 2-3 lbs less and many are looking or shaving from that.
I hardly call that Minor. Your specs are skewed and hardly worth considering.
Carrying my bolt rifles are undisputed quieter and and handling mags plus chambering is nearly silent compared to an AR. This is common knowledge. Very hard to say otherwise.
Might try looking up specs on current popular coyote rifles.

Tikka T3 6 3/16 lbs 42 1/2 in. Some guys here cut these down 4", pics have been posted.
http://www.tikka.fi/pdf/specs/Lite.pdf

Ruger American 7.25 lbs 42 in.
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRedfield/models.html

Ruger American Compact 6 lbs 36.75 in
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleAllWeatherCompact/models.html
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3Originally Posted By: mutthunterOriginally Posted By: tripod3The lure of a semi auto always sounds good to me/ After switching several times I end up going back to a bolt rifle with a detachable magazine.
Smaller lighter, quieter, way more comfortable to carry, still accurate.
I'm not so sure about that one. Just some quick specs.
RRA Coyote Carbine 16in bbl, Magpul ACS stock- 33 3/4 long, 9lb 10oz(Leupy Mark AR, loaded 20rd pmag)
Remmy 700 in 243- 46in long, 9lb 5oz(Leupy VXIII, +8rds in a stock band to make the round count more fair, and I didn't feel like taking it off)

Sound wise, same(at least I bet you couldn't tell when shooting at a yote). Size, AR wins collapsed, extended... same. Lighter, I can't tell the difference 5oz makes in the field, can you? Both group sub MOA. Both have taken about the same amount of critters and have been used about the same amount.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just pointing out that the differences are so minor that they're not worth bringing up. They both work, and work very well. Quicker follow up vs making a better first shot... Whatever... That all sound great until you get out there and things that always happen... happen. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE SHOOTERS PREFERANCE, the end. Stick with what you like to use. If you want to try something different, do it. But make sure you give it the same chance you gave what you're used to. If you do that, I bet you'll find the difference isn't worth half a pinch of sh%# dust.

Quote:Remmy 700 in 243- 46in long, 9lb 5oz(Leupy VXIII, +8rds in a stock band to make the round count more fair, and I didn't feel like taking it off)

What a slanted comparison. Really! 9 lb 3 oz. and 46 in. My .300 Win Mag doesnt even come close to that. Most guys around here are packing much shorter and certainly much lighter than that. in fact 2-3 lbs less and many are looking or shaving from that.
I hardly call that Minor. Your specs are skewed and hardly worth considering.
Carrying my bolt rifles are undisputed quieter and and handling mags plus chambering is nearly silent compared to an AR. This is common knowledge. Very hard to say otherwise.
Might try looking up specs on current popular coyote rifles.

Tikka T3 6 3/16 lbs 42 1/2 in. Some guys here cut these down 4", pics have been posted.
http://www.tikka.fi/pdf/specs/Lite.pdf

Ruger American 7.25 lbs 42 in.
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRedfield/models.html

Ruger American Compact 6 lbs 36.75 in
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleAllWeatherCompact/models.html


I was only trying point out that one isn't really any better/worse than the other, I hope my wording didn't upset you, if it did, my apologies. For comparison, I simply grabbed the rifle and AR that were closest to the door of the safe and weighed/measured them. (Comparing 3 of the lightest rifles on the market(empty with no optics) isn't exactly apples to apples either.) ARs can be slimmed down to under 7lbs (scoped and loaded) without much trouble at all, I just figured mine was a purpose built coyote rifle and fairly average in weight/length. As to sound, if you gently pull the charging handle back and slowly move it forward, then use the forward assist to put it in battery, it isn't noticeably louder than a bolt, with a good pmag and a stock with friction lock or an A2, Ace, etc, there's no extra carrying noise either.

Again, my point was never to start an argument, more that the bolt gun and AR platform can be built to just about any specs, it all depends on what a guy wants to put into em. Thus, it doesn't really matter much which one a fella is shooting, what really does matter, is the guy behind it.
 
Bolt VS Auto
If you love rifles you will love both,but in my case I change from one to the other only based on how close my stand is to my truck.
I just hate the AR-15 when making several stops a day and having to reload,get out of the truck drop a round in chamber and then SLAM the bolt close.If a coyote was in the area he sure as [beeep] heard that Slam.When on a stand still hunting for yotes or big game I love the AR-15 as I can make a follow up shot with less movement on my part.
The bolt gun works great when close to the stand,lot less noise to load but follow up shots are a bit tougher only if you are not as smooth to cycle the bolt.
Only down side to a bolt for me is on a follow up shot I have to move a bit more and if the second yote is looking at me he sometimes can pick up that extra movement and hear the extra noise of the rerack.
[beeep] Buy Both-they are great
 
Quote:I was only trying point out that one isn't really any better/worse than the other, I hope my wording didn't upset you, if it did, my apologies. For comparison, I simply grabbed the rifle and AR that were closest to the door of the safe and weighed/measured them. (Comparing 3 of the lightest rifles on the market(empty with no optics) isn't exactly apples to apples either.) ARs can be slimmed down to under 7lbs (scoped and loaded) without much trouble at all, I just figured mine was a purpose built coyote rifle and fairly average in weight/length. As to sound, if you gently pull the charging handle back and slowly move it forward, then use the forward assist to put it in battery, it isn't noticeably louder than a bolt, with a good pmag and a stock with friction lock or an A2, Ace, etc, there's no extra carrying noise either.

Again, my point was never to start an argument, more that the bolt gun and AR platform can be built to just about any specs, it all depends on what a guy wants to put into em. Thus, it doesn't really matter much which one a fella is shooting, what really does matter, is the guy behind it.

I understand your comparison, just didn't like the numbers. I agree that AR's can be trimmed and are often to superlight. Some even omit the forward assist. Some including me have loaded them in the vehicle to limit noise of inserting mag and charging.
Sometimes a misfire occurs from not charging firmly.
Ar's have been less comfortable for me to carry all day.
I listed three of the most popular rifles used around by members here and other sites.
A couple more are the CZ 527 @ 6.5 lbs
and Savage Axis @ 6.5 lbs.
Optics are generally under 1 lb as many choose lighter smaller optics.
In general lightweight guns are prevalent for low recoil coyote hunting calibers. Low purchase and use prices help.
 
If I'm going to be out ALL day with my hunting pack, I take a bolt gun.
If it's mostly short hikes in? AR (Rock River Predator Pursuit 20" upper), but I don't load the mags full and use poly mags because they seem to be quieter.
 
Tripod- I think you've hit on something that we all seem to have missed, that shouldn't be over looked when comparing the two. That's the price to buy and operate the weapon. I hunted for years with my 700 that was given to me by my dad. I used it not by choice, but because it's all I had. It wasn't until I got a bit older (and stopped spending so much of my pay check on beer and girls)that I was able to move up to better rigs.

It's the money involved that gives a true real world advantage to bolt guns. It's clear that I favor my repeater, but even I must admit that a coyote's nightmare of a bolt gun can be had for about $500 with glass, that's just not gonna happen with an AR, and it rules out most lever guns as well. Score one for the bolt gun.
 
yes the economic woes of hunting funds have few boundaries. Even with no limits some inexpensive guns shed worries of banging them up.
Now ammo costs add to the equation.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724
millerjq said:
Then why ask the question if you are already set on a bolt rifle?

^ This...

Why ask, just to argue?

I largely prefer hunting with semiautos (AR's). Have handled a Winchester SX-AR .308win that I thought would make a fantastic deer rifle, not excessively heavy (nice having the weight in a .308 too), and balanced like a bolt gun. Shot prairie dogs to 500yrds with it, hit what I was aiming at.

Semi-autos are like motorcycles. They only go as fast as you want them to go. Guys can be cynical and say "shooting a semiauto at a runner just means you miss faster", but the reality is that if you're disciplined, your second shot is CLOSER with a semiauto by the time you get back on target. You just don't lose the time cycling the bolt, and in a light recoiling round like a .223rem or a compensated 6.8/6.5, you didn't lose the target out of your scope FOV, or were able to scan from one target to the second without breaking your hold. Sure, if you don't have the discipline to make the second shot count, then you're just spraying (a buddy of mine used to tell me that he'd shoot his semiauto shotgun "first shot leading the bird, second shot above, third below, fourth behind, then 5th shot right on". I asked him "why don't you just shoot AT THE BIRD every time?").

But seems like you won't be convinced, so discussion is moot. You won't be significantly disadvantaged with a bolt gun, animals were killed for generations with sticks and strings with pointy things before we ever came up with the repeating rifle, let alone semi-autos.

As far as pricing, sure, a bolt gun can be found cheaper than a semiauto, but that doesn't mean I'd WANT a $300 bolt gun. If I had to choose ONE coyote rifle, it'd either be an accurized AR or a Savage 12. Talking maybe $50-100 difference between the two.
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This is sort of like a ford vs Chevy discussion.

I hunted deer for years with a remington 1100 slug gun. Boom boom boom everytime I saw a deer. (I was young)

Then I bought a TC encore. Bang. Far more dead deer per sightings. I now have a bolt action slug gun. Best of both worlds.

The first couple of coyotes I called were in deep brushy timber. I was hunting with a bolt gun. I found myself really wanting a semi auto.

Bought a semi auto, killed my first and second coyotes on the second shot with it, running follow ups through heavy brush that I would not have had time to take with a bolt gun. (They were running on the first shots too, don't ask)

I don't spray and pray, I simply allow the machine to work as it should, practically no recoil, right hand still on stock, finger never leaving trigger.

If I hunted the wide open plains a bolt gun would be fine. As I hunt in WV, dogs are gone in 2 or three seconds, not ten.
 
Originally Posted By: mutthunterTripod-

It's the money involved that gives a true real world advantage to bolt guns. It's clear that I favor my repeater, but even I must admit that a coyote's nightmare of a bolt gun can be had for about $500 with glass, that's just not gonna happen with an AR, and it rules out most lever guns as well. Score one for the bolt gun.

$500 with glass? i think i will pass on that rifle.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724Originally Posted By: mutthunterTripod-

It's the money involved that gives a true real world advantage to bolt guns. It's clear that I favor my repeater, but even I must admit that a coyote's nightmare of a bolt gun can be had for about $500 with glass, that's just not gonna happen with an AR, and it rules out most lever guns as well. Score one for the bolt gun.

$500 with glass? i think i will pass on that rifle.

rolleyes.gif
You can get a Savage Model 11 with a Nikon scope, Ruger American rifle with a Redfield scope, and a Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500 package for around $500. Almost all of those rifles will shoot sub-moa out of the box, and all of those scopes are plenty to shoot a coyote to 300 yards in enough light. Nothing wrong with a nicer/more accurate/better scoped gun, but the point is a guy can be in the field hunting with confidence in their equipment for $500.
 
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorOriginally Posted By: 6724
millerjq said:
Then why ask the question if you are already set on a bolt rifle?

^ This...

Why ask, just to argue?

I largely prefer hunting with semiautos (AR's). Have handled a Winchester SX-AR .308win that I thought would make a fantastic deer rifle, not excessively heavy (nice having the weight in a .308 too), and balanced like a bolt gun. Shot prairie dogs to 500yrds with it, hit what I was aiming at.

Semi-autos are like motorcycles. They only go as fast as you want them to go. Guys can be cynical and say "shooting a semiauto at a runner just means you miss faster", but the reality is that if you're disciplined, your second shot is CLOSER with a semiauto by the time you get back on target. You just don't lose the time cycling the bolt, and in a light recoiling round like a .223rem or a compensated 6.8/6.5, you didn't lose the target out of your scope FOV, or were able to scan from one target to the second without breaking your hold. Sure, if you don't have the discipline to make the second shot count, then you're just spraying (a buddy of mine used to tell me that he'd shoot his semiauto shotgun "first shot leading the bird, second shot above, third below, fourth behind, then 5th shot right on". I asked him "why don't you just shoot AT THE BIRD every time?").

But seems like you won't be convinced, so discussion is moot. You won't be significantly disadvantaged with a bolt gun, animals were killed for generations with sticks and strings with pointy things before we ever came up with the repeating rifle, let alone semi-autos.

As far as pricing, sure, a bolt gun can be found cheaper than a semiauto, but that doesn't mean I'd WANT a $300 bolt gun. If I had to choose ONE coyote rifle, it'd either be an accurized AR or a Savage 12. Talking maybe $50-100 difference between the two.

I was not asking just to argue. I was asking to get feedback from the semi-auto users. I have always hunted with a bolt or lever action gun. They have been much lighter than any AR I've picked up, including that christesen arms $3,000 one.
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