Setting sizing die?
- Thread starter Sqeak'em
- Start date
huntsman22
New member
Nah. Cat can handle himself, bleep slapper boy.
huntsman22
New member
frickin' rollin' here over THAT one....
EJ Reichenbach
New member
I dont see where people can tell its only partialy resizing your brass when its just touching the shell holder, i have a set of RCBS dies for a 257wby that i have adjusted a quarter turn into the shell holder and it only sets the shoulder back .002, I would have no idea if it werent for the headspace gauge, cuz the next die will in the same spot will bump the shoulder back .010, that is why I love the headspace gauge. Anymore I just decided to set all my dies to full length size everytime except my 22-250ai, I get great accuracy and my bolt never has any resistance so its good for me
Originally Posted By: CastOriginally Posted By: huntsman22Nah. Cat can handle himself, bleep slapper boy.
Nice hat! Walmart have a sale? It's [beeep], not 'bleep'.
Really? Thats your comeback? The dudes hat? I asked a simple question and got the answers I was looking for. Since Catshooter is a MUCH more credible name on this site I am going to take his advise and hopefully ask him a few questions as I progress on.
Nice hat! Walmart have a sale? It's [beeep], not 'bleep'.
Really? Thats your comeback? The dudes hat? I asked a simple question and got the answers I was looking for. Since Catshooter is a MUCH more credible name on this site I am going to take his advise and hopefully ask him a few questions as I progress on.
Cast
New member
Originally Posted By: Sqeak'emOriginally Posted By: CastOriginally Posted By: huntsman22Nah. Cat can handle himself, bleep slapper boy.
Nice hat! Walmart have a sale? It's [beeep], not 'bleep'.
Really? Thats your comeback? The dudes hat? I asked a simple question and got the answers I was looking for. Since Catshooter is a MUCH more credible name on this site I am going to take his advise and hopefully ask him a few questions as I progress on.
Go ahead man, your call. You are getting bad info though. A ammo manufacturer is not a hand loader. That's why we hand load, because we can do better when we taylor the ammo to the gun. If you're ever in Texas, holler and I'll show you how to do it.
Nice hat! Walmart have a sale? It's [beeep], not 'bleep'.
Really? Thats your comeback? The dudes hat? I asked a simple question and got the answers I was looking for. Since Catshooter is a MUCH more credible name on this site I am going to take his advise and hopefully ask him a few questions as I progress on.
Go ahead man, your call. You are getting bad info though. A ammo manufacturer is not a hand loader. That's why we hand load, because we can do better when we taylor the ammo to the gun. If you're ever in Texas, holler and I'll show you how to do it.
EJ Reichenbach
New member
Originally Posted By: big37dogOn the original topic
will new brass expand to the dimensions of the guns chamber on a single firing or would it be wise to neck size a number of times to make sure the cartridge is the size of the chamber before you bump it. ?
I think it will vary between guns but I could be wrong seems like I get a couple of firings on my brass before I get my load fixed up.
will new brass expand to the dimensions of the guns chamber on a single firing or would it be wise to neck size a number of times to make sure the cartridge is the size of the chamber before you bump it. ?
I think it will vary between guns but I could be wrong seems like I get a couple of firings on my brass before I get my load fixed up.
EJ Reichenbach
New member
Originally Posted By: CastOriginally Posted By: Sqeak'emOriginally Posted By: CastOriginally Posted By: huntsman22Nah. Cat can handle himself, bleep slapper boy.
Nice hat! Walmart have a sale? It's [beeep], not 'bleep'.
Really? Thats your comeback? The dudes hat? I asked a simple question and got the answers I was looking for. Since Catshooter is a MUCH more credible name on this site I am going to take his advise and hopefully ask him a few questions as I progress on.
Go ahead man, your call. You are getting bad info though. A ammo manufacturer is not a hand loader. That's why we hand load, because we can do better when we taylor the ammo to the gun. If you're ever in Texas, holler and I'll show you how to do it.
Looks like another one of those everything is bigger and better in Texas.
Nice hat! Walmart have a sale? It's [beeep], not 'bleep'.
Really? Thats your comeback? The dudes hat? I asked a simple question and got the answers I was looking for. Since Catshooter is a MUCH more credible name on this site I am going to take his advise and hopefully ask him a few questions as I progress on.
Go ahead man, your call. You are getting bad info though. A ammo manufacturer is not a hand loader. That's why we hand load, because we can do better when we taylor the ammo to the gun. If you're ever in Texas, holler and I'll show you how to do it.
Looks like another one of those everything is bigger and better in Texas.
huntsman22
New member
Watch it, fella. Those be beeep-slappin words.....
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: big37dogOn the original topic
will new brass expand to the dimensions of the guns chamber on a single firing or would it be wise to neck size a number of times to make sure the cartridge is the size of the chamber before you bump it. ?
Normally, the first time fired brass will not fully fill the chamber - you will have 0.003" to 0.004" of head space and the body will also have about 0.002" thou of total clearance.
If it is a good bolt gun with fully contacting lugs on both sides, you will probably never get to the point where there is difficulty closing the bolt, because there is always a tiny bit of spring back, and with solid lock-up, the brass can only expand just so much.
But if the action doesn't lock up tightly, or only one lug has full contact, then the case might get to the point of being minus 1 thou headspace, which means that you will have some tightness in the final stage of lock-up.
When setting a FL die, you want to size the case the least you can (especially in the shoulder/headspace dimension), and still have the rifle function fully - any more sizing is just wasted case life, because it will lead to head separations.
So, anyway... yes, it is wise to neck-size and fire the case several times to make sure it has filled the chamber as much as it is going to...
... before setting up your FL die.
.
will new brass expand to the dimensions of the guns chamber on a single firing or would it be wise to neck size a number of times to make sure the cartridge is the size of the chamber before you bump it. ?
Normally, the first time fired brass will not fully fill the chamber - you will have 0.003" to 0.004" of head space and the body will also have about 0.002" thou of total clearance.
If it is a good bolt gun with fully contacting lugs on both sides, you will probably never get to the point where there is difficulty closing the bolt, because there is always a tiny bit of spring back, and with solid lock-up, the brass can only expand just so much.
But if the action doesn't lock up tightly, or only one lug has full contact, then the case might get to the point of being minus 1 thou headspace, which means that you will have some tightness in the final stage of lock-up.
When setting a FL die, you want to size the case the least you can (especially in the shoulder/headspace dimension), and still have the rifle function fully - any more sizing is just wasted case life, because it will lead to head separations.
So, anyway... yes, it is wise to neck-size and fire the case several times to make sure it has filled the chamber as much as it is going to...
... before setting up your FL die.
.
CatShooter
New member
It seems like every few weeks, some toad drops in and thinks everyone here is some kinda rube and he can straighten us all out with his wisdom that he got from reading the internet and then passing on information that he never understood in the first place.
Seems like "Mr. Cast" is out newest toad.
-----
The toad said...
Originally Posted By: CastTo start with, raise the ram (with shell holder installed) all the way up and screw in the FL resizing die until it touches the top of the ram and then about a quarter turn more so that the handle cams over slightly when you pull it down. That sets you up for FL sizing and will work fine.
From here, it's all about the rifle. If you want to custom size the brass for your fine bolt action rifle, you need to figure out what it wants. The simple way is just to slowly and carefully close the bolt on a piece of FL sized brass. The bolt should become more difficult to close just before it locks down if the brass is sized correctly for the rifle. The snug part is the brass being sized by the chamber, pushing the shoulder back as the bolt locks down. If your brass does not feel this way, you need to raise your die in the press by just a little, maybe a quarter turn, and lock it down with the locknut. Size a fresh piece and try the bolt feel test again. It it's too hard to close the bolt, turn the die back in just a bit to move the shoulder back and resize that brass again. Keep at it until you can feel the bolt settling in with just a bit of effort. Now, your die is custom built for that rifle, so label it so and buy another die if you have another gun to build custom brass for. If you're shooting semi auto, don't worry about this step, just FL sizing should be enough for now.
What is wrong with what the toad said is this.
1 - In a modern bolt action rifle (like a M70, a M-700, or even a 98 Mauser), there is not enough linear expansion of the case to make closing the bolt on a case hard to do.
I have a bunch of bolt guns that have been loaded for for years, and never even used a FL die on any of the cases, because they don't expand longer than the chamber.
So when Mr. toad says that you close the bolt and the case is being sized by the chamber, he is making it up - or his rifle is in need of some serious repairs. The bolt in a properly functioning rifle NEVER sizes the case. If that WERE the situation, you would not be able to remove fired cases without straining.
The purpose of being careful when setting up a FL die is that you can OVER size the case if the die has a shorter headspace than the chamber - when that combination happens (more often than you might think), then you stretch out the case shoulder when you fire it, and then size it back each time you FL size it, and eventually the case head will fall off (usually on a critical second shot in a match or on game, and it leaves the front of the case still stuck in the chamber
)
But no matter how lousy your rifle is, if you follow Mr. toad's instructions, and you set a FL die so it hits the shell holder and cams over, then you will NOT ever feel any resistance when closing the bolt, cuz the case is now shorter than the chamber... that is what FL dies do.
Mr. toad says...
Originally Posted By: Cast
Oh, and CS, the piece of 308 brass was still too short after you resized it 28 times huh? Try using a fresh piece of brass for the next 27 tries next time.
Wrong... it did not shorten the case - the case stayed the same length (which is why people use neck-sizing dies), and I still have the case.
Originally Posted By: Cast
Some guys will tell you to use a small neck sizing die on an AR, but I have never needed it. Here is a Chuck Hawk written article explaining the basics.
There is no such die as a "small neck sizing die".
Originally Posted By: CastOriginally Posted By: huntsman22oooooooohh...... another innernet tuff guy. Time to un-wad the big boy panties. They seem to be cutting off your circulation....
Not a tough guy at all, I haven't swung on anybody for many years. Some things are just over the line, and if CS is as good as he thinks, he would know that I know what I am talking about. Where did you come from anyhow? Did Cat Boy call you in for help with the tough guy?
"Tough guy? You gotta be kidding... your a [beeep] (cat), and a BS artist.
Toad, you are a disgrace to the fine state of Texas (I was born in Ft. Worth, and grew some in Shiro, and worked in the Spindletop fields).
Like many, you read junk on the internet, and then regurgitate it, thinking it will make you look smart...
... you run your mouth like a keyboard cowboy, but you don't understand what you are talking about.
.
Seems like "Mr. Cast" is out newest toad.
-----
The toad said...
Originally Posted By: CastTo start with, raise the ram (with shell holder installed) all the way up and screw in the FL resizing die until it touches the top of the ram and then about a quarter turn more so that the handle cams over slightly when you pull it down. That sets you up for FL sizing and will work fine.
From here, it's all about the rifle. If you want to custom size the brass for your fine bolt action rifle, you need to figure out what it wants. The simple way is just to slowly and carefully close the bolt on a piece of FL sized brass. The bolt should become more difficult to close just before it locks down if the brass is sized correctly for the rifle. The snug part is the brass being sized by the chamber, pushing the shoulder back as the bolt locks down. If your brass does not feel this way, you need to raise your die in the press by just a little, maybe a quarter turn, and lock it down with the locknut. Size a fresh piece and try the bolt feel test again. It it's too hard to close the bolt, turn the die back in just a bit to move the shoulder back and resize that brass again. Keep at it until you can feel the bolt settling in with just a bit of effort. Now, your die is custom built for that rifle, so label it so and buy another die if you have another gun to build custom brass for. If you're shooting semi auto, don't worry about this step, just FL sizing should be enough for now.
What is wrong with what the toad said is this.
1 - In a modern bolt action rifle (like a M70, a M-700, or even a 98 Mauser), there is not enough linear expansion of the case to make closing the bolt on a case hard to do.
I have a bunch of bolt guns that have been loaded for for years, and never even used a FL die on any of the cases, because they don't expand longer than the chamber.
So when Mr. toad says that you close the bolt and the case is being sized by the chamber, he is making it up - or his rifle is in need of some serious repairs. The bolt in a properly functioning rifle NEVER sizes the case. If that WERE the situation, you would not be able to remove fired cases without straining.
The purpose of being careful when setting up a FL die is that you can OVER size the case if the die has a shorter headspace than the chamber - when that combination happens (more often than you might think), then you stretch out the case shoulder when you fire it, and then size it back each time you FL size it, and eventually the case head will fall off (usually on a critical second shot in a match or on game, and it leaves the front of the case still stuck in the chamber
But no matter how lousy your rifle is, if you follow Mr. toad's instructions, and you set a FL die so it hits the shell holder and cams over, then you will NOT ever feel any resistance when closing the bolt, cuz the case is now shorter than the chamber... that is what FL dies do.
Mr. toad says...
Originally Posted By: Cast
Oh, and CS, the piece of 308 brass was still too short after you resized it 28 times huh? Try using a fresh piece of brass for the next 27 tries next time.
Wrong... it did not shorten the case - the case stayed the same length (which is why people use neck-sizing dies), and I still have the case.
Originally Posted By: Cast
Some guys will tell you to use a small neck sizing die on an AR, but I have never needed it. Here is a Chuck Hawk written article explaining the basics.
There is no such die as a "small neck sizing die".
Originally Posted By: CastOriginally Posted By: huntsman22oooooooohh...... another innernet tuff guy. Time to un-wad the big boy panties. They seem to be cutting off your circulation....
Not a tough guy at all, I haven't swung on anybody for many years. Some things are just over the line, and if CS is as good as he thinks, he would know that I know what I am talking about. Where did you come from anyhow? Did Cat Boy call you in for help with the tough guy?
"Tough guy? You gotta be kidding... your a [beeep] (cat), and a BS artist.
Toad, you are a disgrace to the fine state of Texas (I was born in Ft. Worth, and grew some in Shiro, and worked in the Spindletop fields).
Like many, you read junk on the internet, and then regurgitate it, thinking it will make you look smart...
... you run your mouth like a keyboard cowboy, but you don't understand what you are talking about.
.
EJ Reichenbach
New member
The Sh!at has hit the fan
Tim Neitzke
New member
Holy BEEP ! I'm laff'n my BEEP'n BEEP ! off !
Wait ! What was the BEEP'n question again ?
Wait ! What was the BEEP'n question again ?
RTLOF18918B
New member
If it were me, I would take Catshooters advise and go from there. What works for him may not work for you, but his advise would be the best place to start. We all learn something every day.
Just my opinion and mine alone,
Tony
Just my opinion and mine alone,
Tony
RiverRider
New member
When a FL die is used, the shoulder of a fire formed case WILL move forward slightly before it contacts the die shoulder and is bumped back. You can verify this yourself by taking a fire formed case and chambering it in your rifle, taking note of how it feels when the bolt is closed. Then run the case up into the die until the shell holder is a few thousandths from contacting the die. Wipe off your lube and chamber the case again and you should notice more resistance upon closing. Repeat this process turning the die in just a tiny bit each time until you can feel the resistance to closing ease up just a bit and tighten the lock ring at that point. This is one way to set up without the use of gadgets and gauges.