Shooting Down from a Tree?

Rooster_Feather

Rooster_Feather

Member
I have not field tested this yet, but is this true?

My Brother-in-law who hunts everything that walks, squawks, runs or swims, told me that "When shooting at close range (15 yards) from a tree stand with rifle, you need to aim high." Now I understand the whole thing with a bow, but with a gun?

I was telling him about a bobcat that I shot a week ago and lost. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif He said that if I put it right on him that I probably hit him way low. Actually the cat was squatting down scratching his ear when I shot him. My brother-in-law said that I probably shot him in the leg or foot.

One more thing, I am shooting with a scope that is very close to the barrel. (I do not have see thru sights.)

I guess that I will have to test this, but I haven't been out in the last few days. I has been cold and blowing like crazy.


So do any of you know the answer to bullet trajectory from 12' high shooting 10-15 yards away? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Rooster
 
I haven't tested it yet myself, but I have heard the same thing. I heard that it applies with bows and guns. The idea is that when you sight in at 100 yds. You are actually shooting in an arch, but not as pronounced of one as a bow. So you would still get the same effect with a gun. On something larger such as a deer or bear the impact difference shouldn't be enough to miss the vitals, but something smaller like a bobcat will have a smaller vital zone. If the bullet drops 1.5" on a deer you're still in the kill zone, but on a bobcat you may very well now miss. But I haven't tested this yet myself so I can't guarentee that it is true.
 
With the gun sighted in properly for 100 yds,Your bullet would have hit between the distance from your crosshairs to the bore of the gun.
 
hark back to early geometry class. instead of staring at the cute chick with the big boobs you should have been listening to the teacher.

the theorum is explained in pythagoras therory. a squared + b squared =c squared.

say you are 24 feet up a tree and your cat is laser sighted at 30 yards, the real distance to your target is approx 28 yds. so the target is actually closer than you think, so you aim lower.
 
Bullet drop is measured across the horizontal distance from the muzzle to the target, it's all about gravity. I think your brother in law is referring to the fact that it takes a certain amount of distance for the bullet to cross the sight plane of the crosshairs. It has nothing to do with bullet drop. If you were aiming halfway on the body of the cat, it is probably a narrow enought target to hit low at that distance.
 
Actually, if something is lasered while you were in the tree, then the real distance is the distance the rangefinder tells you it is. As I see the question, the tree has nothing to do with it. At close range on a rifle sighted in at 100yds, the bullet will shoot low as RagnCajn said. If the center of your scope is 1.5" above the center of the bore, when the bullet leaves the muzzle it is 1.5" below your point of aim. The gap gets smaller the farther it travels out to 100 yds, but at 25 yds it would still be low. One reason to aim high out of a tree is you are shooting down on the target, thus making you need to aim higher to hit the vitals and not pass by the side of them.
 
I think it has more to do with angle than anything. If your bullet hits low shoulder (were your aiming), it's angled to come out the brisket. Hence a lower wound, not really a lower hit. Like SC said. At close range your bullet will hit a bit low. Prolly not enough to make a diff at say 20 yards. But think about what line you will need at that downward angle to poke the vitals, it will need to enter higher (like you need to aim back if the game is 1/4'ing away). The gun shouldn't shoot much lower (than normal) just because of the elevation change.



Sorry for the repeat jsone posted while I was typing. oh well its a consinsis now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
BILLYD,

That doesn't make any sense to me.

I was and still am horrible in English. But math, that is my strong point. I fully understand the how to find the length of the hypotenuse of a triangle.

But in this situation, the question is whether to aim high or right on the target. If you shot below the target you miss completely.

Also the pythagoras theory only works if the standard of measurement is the same for all lengths. 24 feet down, 30 yards out, would be 31.0183 yards from your vantage point to the animal. (Actually farther than from the base).

It is the close distance shooting down that makes this situation unique. It all has to do with the distance from the crosshairs to the center of the barrel.

I suppose by that theory, if you shot something on the ground at say 12- 15 yards the shot would be high as well. I have just never been in this situation! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I guess that is why Moss Back PMer's kill more animals than us amateurs. Experience, Experience, Experience. There is no replacement.


Rooster
 
There are two issues here.
#1 is shooting at something close
With a rifle, shooting at something close matters because your scope is above your rifle. If you're zeroed at 100 yds, and your target is at 15 yds, you will hit low. It will be almost as much as the distance between your scope and the bore.
#2 is shooting down (or up)
Shooting down matters because gravity affects your bullet trajectory less. If you are shooting down then your bullet will have a flatter trajectory. To illustrate, imagine pointing the BARREL straight down (different than aiming the scope straight down). There will be zero drop(deflection due to gravity if you want to be picky) if you're firing straight down. As you start angling the barrel towards horizontal, you get more drop. As you start angling up, the deflection starts to decrease again. This matters more with a bow than it does a rifle. Even with a bow, I haven't observed it shooting from a treestand. Shooting long range with a rifle is where it could matter.

Conclusion:
If you missed low at short range, it's because of the scope height above the bore.
Reason:
There is not enough gravitational deflection of a bullet over 15 yards to matter.
 
With a bow it's a matter of form. Some folks drop their arm instead of maintaining their form and bending at the waist resulting in a high shot.
 
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LeadPoison,

Quote:
The Hornady 6th Edition has a nice discussion about this with diagrams and formulas to calculate the exact variance.




Is there a website for that?

Rooster
 
That would have to be a heckuvuh tree to effect the trajectory of a rifle bullet!!! A bow, sure, cost me a mountain goat one time, shooting straight down. But a rifle? I think it would have to be some kind of world record tall tree! Shooting down a cliff, or EXTREMELY steep hill, then there would be some considerations. We have some of the tallest trees around in my country, and I can't imagine shooting from any of them further up than about 90'. Would do VERY little to the path of a bullet.

Try this...
Most rifles are at zero as the bullet crosses UP thru the line of sight. (They come back down thru zero too.) My 300 Mag, for example, is zero at about 60 yards on the way up since it's 2" high at 100 yards, about 3 1/5" high at 175 yards, then zero again at about 270 yards on the way down. So, using that as an example, it shoots about 2" below the line of sight at the muzzle, then tapers to zero at 60 yards. If I want to thread a needle with it inside of 60 yards I have to compensate for the gap between the line of sight and the muzzle. That MAY have had some effect on Rooster Feather's lost cat. I don't think WAY low, but the gap between the muzzle and the line of sight maybe.
 
Quote:
hark back to early geometry class. instead of staring at the cute chick with the big boobs you should have been listening to the teacher.

the theorum is explained in pythagoras therory. a squared + b squared =c squared.

say you are 24 feet up a tree and your cat is laser sighted at 30 yards, the real distance to your target is approx 28 yds. so the target is actually closer than you think, so you aim lower.




Actually my Geometry teacher was cute and had nice boobs and I didn't learn a darn thing in that class
 
The way I always understood it is that the horizontal distance across the ground(ie, gravity) is what determines drop. If you were on a mountain shooting 400 yards down but only 100 yards across, you would aim as if you are shooting 100 yards. The same would hold true if you were shooting 400 yards up and 100 yards across. That's just the way I understand it, I've never tested it.
 
I wish my geometry teacher would have been cute and had big boobs, I had an old man with hair growing out of the top of his nose. Looked like a chia pet growin out of there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Thanks to him teaching me that crap I went into Aerospace physiology. Now my english teacher Miss Boback that is another story. How did we get on this subject? I thought the question had to do with shooting from a tree. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Your geometry teacher sounds cute. My geometry teacher was a woman with hair growing out the top of her nose /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

You know, I went to school for 7 years (finally pick a major /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif) post high school and I never, ever had an attractive math teacher (had PLENTY of math in Engineering too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif). I feel slighted! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif


Oh yeah, back to the tree...
 
Reminds me of one math teacher. Mrs. Doan, nice looker, & when she walked between the desks in those tight dark skirts - I could have been arrested for the thoughts I had, somehow I managed to pass that course.

Now back to the tree thing. I think some of you guys are over analizing. Most of us sight in @ 100 - 200 yards, ok. Even if your scope is low profile it's still higher then a bore line of sight. So try this; from an elevated position hold/bench the rifle with the bolt removed and scope your 15 - 20 yard target. Then look down the bore. Still not convinced? - use a shotgun.

Now with Archery, well thats another ball of wax.
 
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