Shot shell reloading questions

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fields_mj

New member
I'm looking for information on reloading shotgun shells. Specifically 12ga 3" and maybe 3.5" shells. I've loaded handgun and rifle ammo for over 15 years now, but I've never loaded a single shotgun shell. My reason for looking into reloading these shells is cost. I don't shoot a lot out of my shotgun, but the stuff I like to shoot is starting to cost over a dollar a round, so I'm thinking that it shouldn't take long to pay for itself. My dad has a press he can get from a friend of his for free, but I don't know the brand yet. It would be really nice to be able to do it on my rock chucker since I'll be doing really low volumes, but I've never seen the dies I would need for that.

My goal is to load shell that carry a LOT of lead, but don't really have a real high velocity. I'd use them mostly for pheasant hunting. I like to shoot the birds at 30~40 yards because I can hit them with #4 shot and the pellets don't reach the breast meat. That gives the bird time to normally be heading straight away from me, and it gives me time to make sure my pointer is staying put like I want her to. 2 3/4" shells can't carry enough shot to put multiple #4 pellets in a 4" circle reliably at that range. Heavy loads of #6 put the pellets in the circle, but I've had a hard time getting #6 shot to penetrate enough even at 25 yards to put the bird down. I've not found a factory #5 load that my shotgun (mossberg 835) has been able to pattern well. That has pushed me to 3" shells. They have done a good job for me, but man are they expensive.

Anyway, I'm kicking the idea around, and I'd love to hear some opinions and advice from others who reload shotgun shells. I'd also appreciate any sources for wads and shot as the places I normally buy from don't seem to have a good selection of these.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Mark, I reloaded specialized shotshells for many years. While there are a ton of places to find info, and many different reloading manuals available, if you want to TRULY load a specialized load for your personal use, I would suggest that you contact Ballistic Products. www.ballisticproducts.com They offer specialized shot cups and other components and have load recipes that are tailored to work with their products. Their components are a little pricey, but when you consider the product and the results that you get, it's worth the added cost.

You can't load shotshells on a metallic reloader. I would suggest a MEC reloader. They'll do practically anything that you require.

Don't take shotshell reloading lightly. A component substitution can bring about dramatic pressure changes and destroy a shotgun. Different hulls have different internal capacities, and something as simple as adding buffer to the pellet load will cause a sharp pressure increase. It's easy, fun, and brings satisfaction if done properly.
 
Like Hidalgo says, get a MEC reloader for 12ga. It's hard to beat a MEC for value in a single stage or progressive shotshell loader. Most of what you know about metalic loading will not apply to shotshells, so do your homework.

We shoot more pheasants every year here in SD than you will ever see in Indiana in a lifetime. You don't need a 3" or 3 1/2" shell to hold all the lead you need for a pheasant. A 2 3/4" Winchester AA hull is all you need for pheasants out to 45 yards. Hard lead shot and a full choke will put a deadly pattern on a 40 yard bird.

This is what I, and many others consider a fine pheasant load for the 12 ga. If this load doesn't put them down with authority, it's likely it was your fault.

Winchester AA 2 3/4" Hull
Winchester (or equivalent Claybuster) AA12R (Red Wad)
1 3/8 oz. # 5 hard lead shot
28.1 grains Hodgdon Longshot powder
Winchester #209 primer
 
I agree with Hidalgo and SodakJim a Mec 600 Junior will work great for reloading 12 ga hunting loads. If you look around you can usually find a used Mec 600 Junior for not too much money. I don't think 3" shells are necessary for killing pheasants at 40 yards. Ballistic Products Inc will have everything you need to reload your hunting loads. Check out the reloading data for the Federal Gold Medal 2-3/4" plastic target hull. It is a great hull for heavy 2-3/4" hunting loads. It has much more room in it than the Win AA or the Rem STS so you can reload heavier and faster loads at safe pressures. I have killed a bunch of coyotes over the years with 1-1/2 oz of shot in the Federal Gold Medal hulls.
 
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My goal is to load shell that carry a LOT of lead, but don't really have a real high velocity

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

What do you consider 'a lot of lead'? Is 1 1/2 or 1 5/8 oz
enough? If so you can load these in a 2.75 hull without special components.

What velocity do you consider 'not real high'? Is 1150 fps low enough? Also loaded without special components.

Loading shotgun is the best way,'in my opinion',to get what you want without breaking the bank.Most powder companies have shotgun reload data online that you can search through to find what you need.

Quote:
I'd also appreciate any sources for wads and shot as the places I normally buy from don't seem to have a good selection of these



If you do your homework you will find you don't need a big selection,you can use one or two wads and load several different loads.

Don't be afraid to use cheaper comonents,i.e.; claybuster,down range or duster wads,cheddite,noble sport,or fiocci primers. BUT MAKE SURE THAT YOU FOLLOW THE DATA REFERENCING THESE COMPONENTS !

Here are a few places for comonents,I personally use Gamaliel cause they are close.Check any gun clubs near you,some keep stuff for reloading.

Good Luck.


www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

www.midwayusa.com

www.gamaliel.com/
 
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If you do your homework you will find you don't need a big selection,you can use one or two wads and load several different loads.




If you buy BP shotcups and gas seals....you can buy ONLY ONE shotcup, and load ANY load.

So...which is cheaper? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Thanks guys! Sodak, you are correct on seeing pheasants. In northern Indiana, if I walk into a 30 acre field that is in set aside (weeds), and flush 4 or 5 roosters it takes my breath away. I also agree with everyone that a 3" shell shouldn't be needed for pheasants, but the 2 3/4" factory shells that I have tried just didn't pattern very well out of my gun. I tried #4 shot in Remington Express, Federal game-shok and wing-shok, and #5 shot in the Winchester Extreme pheasant load, and I didn't care for the way any of them patterned. I tried an I.C., Full, and X-Full choke, as well as the .690 Mossberg Factory turkey choke, and a .680 Mad Max turkey choke. The would all pattern okay (but not good or great) at 25 yards, but by 35 yards they were getting pretty iffy. 3" 1 7/8oz #4 Remginton Nitro loads patterned very well for me though, so that's why I've been looking more into the 3" stuff. Plus, when I have some experience under my belt, I'm sure that I would expand into turkey and coyote loads. I know they can be shot with 2 3/4" shells, but I'd rather use 3" or even 3.5" for that.

For pheasants I did find that the Estate Heavy Game load patterned pretty good for me in #6 shot. So I carried two of the 3" shells in the tube, and a 2 3/4" #6 in the chamber for last weeks hunts. I learned that #6 sucks for a pheasant load. Solid hits past 20 yards failed to put the bird down solid time after time. Every time the bird landed and was able to run. The dog would have to find it, and possibly track it and hold it while I cought up to them and rung its neck. I got my limit of 2 birds each day, but I was not happy with the shells. The last day and a half I just used the 3" shells and made sure to wait another second or so on the trigger. I had no problems and even at 25 yards it didn't destroy any breast meat. Bird was dead in the air /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

From what I have learned in the past few days, I'm going to start out with the 2 3/4" shells and maybe try for payloads around 1.5 oz and see what I get.

Hidalgo - can you make any recomendations on which shot cups and gas seals to use for 3" turkey and varmit loads? The selection for 3" stuff is a lot more scarce, but I didn't know if you had tried out multiple configurations and found one that worked best for you.

Thanks again guys! And thanks especially for recomending that I get a manual and do my homework. I already knew that, but it still needs to be said any time someone is getting into a "new" area of reloading.

Mark
 
Mark as you can see my screen name says what I love to do when I'm not hunting coyotes over the years I've loaded thousands and thousands of 12 ga. loads I have a MEC 9000 and love it, it the best for the $$$. I'll give you a load to start with,
this is my personal favorite load.
30.0 grains of Herco powder and 1 1/4 oz of hard 5's or copper plated 5's either work great and will knock the crap outta pheasants out past 50 yrds easy.

Good luck, Jeremy
 
The way you make any good pheasant load work is with a combination of good hard shot for minimum deformation, high velocity for good penetration and high pellet energy, and a modified to full choke to get more shot on the target. Shot size should get larger with the expected distance to the birds. No. 6s will do for early season close flushing birds but later the #5 will be better for the longer shots. A good hit with high velocity #4s will do the trick, but you have to give up some pattern density. A slower load of more shot is not more effective for quick clean kills. A 1 3/8 oz. load at around 1300 fps is hard to beat. Don't shoot pheasants under 25 yards with this load or you may get some serious overkill. You can usually let them get out to 30 plus yards and that works best.

I was out today doing some game surveying where they were cutting corn and sunflowers. In 1 hour, I seen at least 2 thousand pheasants in a 6 mile square. We are getting a few inches of snow and that will concentrate the birds in the remaining cover. It should be a great hunt this weekend for sure.
 
Thanks again guys, I'll keep that in mind. Wow Sodak, you don't need another "friend" do ya????? I don't think that my German Short Hair would know what to do in a place like that. Normally after a day of hunting, she's ready to get in her box and come home (she doesn't like her box). I'm afraid if I ever take her to SD, she may insist on staying!
 
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I don't think that my German Short Hair would know what to do in a place like that. Normally after a day of hunting, she's ready to get in her box and come home (she doesn't like her box). I'm afraid if I ever take her to SD, she may insist on staying!



Boy, I know what you mean. I moved here from eastern Washington State where you need a good bird dog just to find the birds. Around here, you need a good dog to find the ones that fall dead in heavy cover. If I didn't have my Lab-Pointer cross, I would have had a hard time getting my three roosters most of the time. In Washington state your limited to three rounds in the gun, but there are no restrictions on magazine capacity here in SD. There are some areas that have prairie chickens, sharptails, huns, and chuckars. Over in the Black Hills there a few quail for the upland bird hunters. We also have antelope, mule deer and white-tails shareing the same range. There is also a good population of wild turkeys.
 
Quote:
.....tried an I.C., Full, and X-Full choke, as well as the .690 Mossberg Factory turkey choke, and a .680 Mad Max turkey choke. The would all pattern okay (but not good or great) at 25 yards, but by 35 yards they were getting pretty iffy. 3" 1 7/8oz #4 Remginton Nitro loads patterned very well for me though, so that's why I've been looking more into the 3" stuff. Plus, when I have some experience under my belt, I'm sure that I would expand into turkey and coyote loads. I know they can be shot with 2 3/4" shells, but I'd rather use 3" or even 3.5" for that.



Not pointing fingers or pokin sticks, but it seems counter productive to use such tight chokes. I use a plain jane remington factory full choke, and 1 1/4 oz 5's. But realistically modified would serve its purpose as well.

Im inferring that its a mossberg shotgun? Not that theres anything wrong with them- they work great, but possibly having the forcing cone lengthened might cure a lot of your woes. This simple mod will improve your shot gun's performance, and its relatively cheap. Ive had it done, or done it myself (dont go there, its a pain) and every time Ive noted a difference in each guns field performance. The dreaded old "I had that one dead to rights, but missed" almost disappears. Talk with Mike Orlen (413) 256-1630, over on shotgun world. He knows his stuff and has a barrel of mine right now. I think it would be around 65 dollars to have this done. While your guns there- have him make sure the choke is centered with the bore, and have him recut it if its not. This would all be money well spent.
Is it gonna make it a cant miss proposition? Nope-some of tha will still be up to you- good luck- Mike.
 
Having the forcing cone lengthened is a good idea. All of my shotguns have had the forcing cones lengthened. It just makes more sense to have a gradual taper or easy path for the shot and wad to enter the barrel. Most forcing cones are a sharp angle and FORCE the wad and shot into the barrel.
 
I agree that a tight choke shouldn't be needed. I just decided to take ALL of my chokes when I went to pattern the gun. Turns out that the X-Full and the .690 turkey choke were the only ones to give nice even patterns. At 25yds the patterns were about 20" in diameter, wich was enough for me.

I've read a fair amount about the forceing cone in the past several days, and I've been wondering about that. I'm not a huge fan of Mossberg shotguns, but I got both of mine for great prices. Since I shoot my handguns and rifles a LOT more than a shotgun, I choose to spend my money there. I'll have to talk to a couple of local smiths and see what they can do with my forceing cone. I've been thinking that the forcing cone could have a lot to do with what I'm seeing on paper, and your suggestions back that up.

Thanks again,
Mark
 
Mark,
With all do respect. Get quotes from local smiths then compare them to Mr. Orlen. There was a post on here last week where his name came up. I researched him and did some credibility calls. He is top notch, and his prices are more than fair (dirt cheap if you want to split hairs).

This guy works on shotguns and only shotguns. If your area is anything like mine the local smith's forte isnt fine tuning shotguns- they are decent at a lot of stuff and not really excellent at anything. Anyways he's cheap for what you get, and really who else do you know thats willing to do a 4 inch forcing cone on whatever you send him for 65 bucks?
 
Good point. We have a couple of decent smiths in this part of the state, but I've never had work done by either of them. You are right, neither of them specialize in shotguns. I just sent Mr Orlen an e-mail. What kind of turn around time did you get on your work?
 
Fields mj, on ebay you can get the Mec Sizemaster used like new for a little over $100, fine reloader.

I found a load for pheasants that is magic as follows:

Rem 3" hull
36.5g of Blue Dot'
1 5/8 oz of Copper plated #5's
BP Pattern driver-Split 2/3 with 2 slits
BP Gas Seal
209 Primer
Velocity is 1275-1300 fps

Pattern with this in a standard choke chews up pheasants at 40 yards, and it good to 60 yards.

On real windy days, shoot Copper plated #4's with the same load, good to 75 yards.

If you ever get the chance to buy any 2 3/4" active hulls, buy all you can get your hands on and use the same load.

Good luck!
 


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