Shotgun for close up. what type of shell?

Number 4 lead buckshot and Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T shot both have plenty of penetration but their patterns will fail way befor they reach their 3.70" of gel penetration.

I don't know why but EMI "Hevi-Shot" started making their 12g/cc Dead Coyote T shot frangible. Why they would want to make brittle or fragile shot for shooting coyotes I don't understand at all.

1250 fps lead number 4 buck gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 105.5 yards, there are about 41 pellets in a 1-7/8 oz of lead number 4 buck.
1300 fps Hevi-Shot DC T shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 85 yards, there are about 50 pellets in a 1-1/2 oz of 12g/cc DC T shot.
1300 fps TSS #3 shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 96.8 yards, there are about 100 pellets in a 1-1/2 oz load of TSS #3 shot.
 
The only exits I recall seeing were on broadside ones that were inside 50y, almost all were shot head on when they stopped at longer distances usually in the 65-75yd range with a few mentioned in the 90yd range. I just checked my notes and I was incorrect about my pattern...The Hornady 4 buck 2.75" load consistently at 50 yds put 6 pellets into an 8" circle(not 10" as I previously posted) another 6-8 inside 12" circle. All 24 pellets were inside 24-30".
This was in July of 19 with a custom 22" 2.75" Winchester 1400 and Mod Choke. The IC choke put 5 in the center but had same to 30".
 
My guns pattern Winchester Varmint X 3" BB the best. Federal 2 3/4" #4 Buck the 2nd best. I haven't killed a coyote much over 35 yards with the Federal 2 3/4", the furthest I've killed a coyote with the Winchester Varmint X 3" BB was 63 yards.

Had to shoot it twice but my first shot took out its legs, all of them. I normally wouldn't try a shot that far with a shotgun but I had a bit of a dilemma on my hands. It had mange extremely bad. So I couldn't just let it get away. The second part of my dilemma was it was about to hit my wind and take off. I let it get as close as I could and it was on the verge of winding me when I shot. I decided to risk wasting ammo over letting one with mange get away. I don't like shooting at anything less than 45 yards with the shotgun if I don't have to.
 
I still have about 10 box of 25 count federal classic lead BB. They are 3” 1 7/8 oz loads. My favorite predator calling load that didn’t brake the bank till it was discontinued. Use to be $29 a box back 20 years ago. The 10 gauge version was $39 a box. I still have a good half box or more of 10 gauge. I also have some Remington HD Bb,BBB, and T shot. Just a few of each. Those are wicked. Shot a yote a few years ago at109 yards with HD BB. It broke both left side legs. The classic lead BB load had dropped coyotes dead on the spot out to 65 yards. Wish I should have had the load yesterday when I called in a red fox in thick brush. Was using a 22 WMR. A few hundred yard track job that was never recovered baize of a bad shot through thick brush. I’m sure a shotgun blast would have anchored it on the spot.
 
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FWIW- I've had to finish off probably 1/3 of all the one's I've shot with shotgun regardless of range, but definitely proportional as range increased. For me the Hevi DC had the fewest requiring second shots but was impossible to get and the Hornady 4 buck loads were second best. Of the 39 I've killed this year with .223(AR) I've had close to 1/4 that had to have second shots or more to put out of their misery. I now carry a .38 loaded down to a super quiet load of 1.0gr Bullseye under a 148gr HBWC. It allows me to not have to carry my 14# rifle to retrieve them and still dispatch them as needed. Never needed this with Bolt .243's and 25-06 or pump .308 so this is new to me..However I can say without a doubt I've still recovered more double's and triples that I would never have gotten shots on had I not made this move. Once I found the right bullet for the .223 I've dramatically reduced the runners, but still have to dispatch about every 1 in 4. I accept that this will be the case with less than optimal shots with .223, on running targets etc, and realize that even poorly hit ones are only possible because of the AR and it's mild blast. I hate the AR .223 for several reasons but love it for the additional opportunities it provides when you call groups..
Next season I will be going 6x45 one way or another and hope that will help minimize the one's needing dispatched.
 
No matter how good a shotun load is, it is very easy to hit the coyote with just the edge of the pattern especialy when the shot is 25 yards away or shorter. If the coyote is moving even just a little after the first shot, that coyote should be shot again and again until it quits moving.

I had pretty good reults with the old Federal Premium copper coated lead BB, 3" 1-7/8 oz loads. The 1-1/2 oz 3" BB coyote loads only have about 77 pellets per shell. The old 3" 1-7/8 oz loads had about 98 pellets per shell.

You don't have to shoot very many coyotes with a load that has 21 more pellets per shell to see that 21 more pellets per shell will give you more clean kills on coyotes than you will get with a load that has 21 less pellets in it.

I got more clean kills with 3" Rem HD BB loads that had 70 pellets per shell than I got with Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote 3" T shot loads with about 50 pellets per shell.

Now I carry some cheap steel #2 shot loads to dispatch any coyotes that are down and needing another shot.
 
I'm curious to know what 223 ammo you have the best success with? I currently use Hornady Vmax 55gr and very rarely have a runner.
 
I had a few hits with 55 Vmax get back up and run last season on running shots that I assume were behind diaphragm. All shots on ones that stopped to pose were DRT. I just wanted more from the .223 so I went to a 24" barrel to get more speed than the 18" I had and went to a hand-loaded 60 grain bullets this season. The 2 I chose were the 60 TMK and 60 NBT. Accuracy was same but I sold the TMK's after seeing poor terminal results at slower .223 speeds. The 60gr NBT's loaded over Benchmark @ 3150fps have been the best balance between accuracy and destruction in the .223 for me. I think the TMK's would be my choice with it's awesome BC of .323 in a 22-250 or similar where I want a bit stouter bullet or an open calling areas out west where they can run and be found easily. Here they run to the neighbors fence and uncut hay fields and you need them to drop right there.

If I were confined to factory ammo, I'd probably run something that uses the 55BT. They seem to keep speed up in .223. I think the tapered jacket would be worth the additional cost over the Vmax in the additional sturdiness required when hitting bone or angled shots. Just my .02
 
I def agree the more pellets that strike the target, is directly proportional to distance traveled. When using a shotgun like a close range rifle in Timber and waiting for them to stop to shoot, I found it's effective range to be much further than you guys out West who were "shotgunning" them broadside as they do "fly byes" on the caller. Just Apples to Oranges. FWIW I now only use a SG whenever I hunt at my parents where I began years ago or to satisfy an annual urge for fun. I'm just too lazy to haul 2 guns afield. I now use Tripod mostly and shoot them well before 100yds..usually the first time they stop naturally between 200 and 350.
 
Originally Posted By: 22magnum22I'm curious to know what 223 ammo you have the best success with? I currently use Hornady Vmax 55gr and very rarely have a runner.

55 grain softpoints have been working good for me for the past few years. They usually leave a golfball sized hole at the most. I've used several types of .223 bullets over the years. 40,45,50,52,53,55 and 60 grain bullets of different types. The most fur friendly yet absolutely dumps coyotes have been Hornady 52 grain BTHP and Sierra 60 grain Varminter in my experience. But the softpoints you can find just about anywhere that sells ammunition. And they dump whatever you shoot more times than not. I shot 63 animals in a row with them after I switched over to those and didn't lose any. And only needed to shoot a few of them more than once. The only time I've had a problem is hitting them in the shoulder. Occasionally it'll blow up on their shoulder bone but most times they stay put long enough to shoot them again if that happens. But the way I see it is fur friendly don't mean much if they run off after you shoot them. Golfball sized exits I'll take over seeing them run off.

 
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well,, I tell you what this 74 year old Geezer thinks----I'm bald,, the wife gets hair done every 6 weeks for $160 and toes another $50!! I'm gonna shoot $14 APEX TSS #4 shells til her hair falls out!! How many shotgun coyotes you kill every 6 weeks? Life is too fun to short change ourselves,.,.. Killed 3 coyotes last week 93, 90 and 87 yards,.,. killed 120lb mountain lion in June 58yards, deader than Greta Garbo-----------I'm in charge here!!!
 
Originally Posted By: parkerzI'm gonna shoot $14 APEX TSS #4 shells til her hair falls out!!

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I'm a TSS guy myself. Sometimes use HD BB, or even lead NP F, but mostly TSS.

- DAA
 
I rarely use a shotgun because the only load I've found to pattern well is Remington Low Recoil 00 buck out of my gun.

Everything else is definitely marginal beyond 30 yards.

Penetration is meaningless without a good pattern.
 
Originally Posted By: Softpoint... Penetration is meaningless without a good pattern.

Worth repeating.
 
I've killed a fair number of coyotes with a shotgun in the past, lately sticking to the rifle. I go through phases trying out different equipment. I have a dedicated predator shotgun (Rem 870) that I have a selection of non-toxic shells for hunting ammo/weapons restricted areas. My main gotos are combo guns and drillings which aren't steel/tungsten capable. Surprisingly when carrying the combo and drillings most of my kills are with the shotgun barrels 1 oz of NP BBs in the 16's and 1 1/4oz of the same in the 12 ga. 40 yards is my limit which isn't much of a handicap as I always have the rifle barrel for the ones that hang up out there.

44 long paces and had to hit him wth both barrels and he still ran about 70 yards before piling up 1 oz NP BB's. 16ga/16ga/9.3x72R
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35 yards and dropped like a rock including a broken leg 1 oz NP BBs 16ga/16ga/6.5x58R Sauer
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A longer one as he ran past the caller and was headed out another DRT 12ga/22 Sav. Highpower(5.6x52R)
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What I like about combo guns is you don't have to pack two separate firearms your choice of weapons is just a button or trigger away.
 
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