Shotguns and coyotes - one shot kills?
- Thread starter DAA
- Start date
Hummmm.....one shot kills.
Ok, how well does you shotgun pattern, second does your shotgun hit exactly where you are aiming, third do you leade them enough on the move.
Took me a while to learn this. Rem shotguns always print low for me, so I have to aim a tad high.
I put a burris speed beade on mine, and holy cow how that improves how fast you pick up an animal!
If you are shooting a shotgun that will pattern 100% in a 25" pattern at 40 yards, it is a meat grinder on a coyote. You can count on a lot of one shot kills, if you don't stop your swing.
IN my experience, with Rem shotguns using Mod and Imp Cyl chokes with #4 buckshot, you have a lot of flippers.
Most important is the terrain you hunt in. If you are hunting in thick stuff where a 40 yard shot is half way around the world, then you need an open choke, like Modified with #4 buck shot because they will be right in your lap when you shoot. If you are hunting open areas like Derby Bob, then you want a full or turkey choke on #4 buckshot.
I can tell you this, if a coyote has been shot with a shotgun, and his tail is wiggling the slightest bit while he is laying on the ground, you better hit him again. I have seen them get up and take off like a bottle rocket.
The biggest problem that guys have with shotguns is they do not pattern their gun to see the point of impact vs point of aim, which means they do not check out their gun fit.
Ok, how well does you shotgun pattern, second does your shotgun hit exactly where you are aiming, third do you leade them enough on the move.
Took me a while to learn this. Rem shotguns always print low for me, so I have to aim a tad high.
I put a burris speed beade on mine, and holy cow how that improves how fast you pick up an animal!
If you are shooting a shotgun that will pattern 100% in a 25" pattern at 40 yards, it is a meat grinder on a coyote. You can count on a lot of one shot kills, if you don't stop your swing.
IN my experience, with Rem shotguns using Mod and Imp Cyl chokes with #4 buckshot, you have a lot of flippers.
Most important is the terrain you hunt in. If you are hunting in thick stuff where a 40 yard shot is half way around the world, then you need an open choke, like Modified with #4 buck shot because they will be right in your lap when you shoot. If you are hunting open areas like Derby Bob, then you want a full or turkey choke on #4 buckshot.
I can tell you this, if a coyote has been shot with a shotgun, and his tail is wiggling the slightest bit while he is laying on the ground, you better hit him again. I have seen them get up and take off like a bottle rocket.
The biggest problem that guys have with shotguns is they do not pattern their gun to see the point of impact vs point of aim, which means they do not check out their gun fit.
Keith, only shot a few, that's my total experience. Not enough of a sample size to be worth talking about, but I'll answer your questions.
Used an 870, with a SpeedBead and Carlsons Dead Coyote choke, Hevi Dead Coyote 3" T and Fed. Premium #4 buck. The SpeedBead was carefully zeroed at 40 yards. Would have to dig up old notes to give you actual numbers on the pattern, I did this all years ago, then never used it until this past weekend, but it was patterning "pretty tight" going by the wonderfully informative thread GC has pinned in this forum.
Had the 870 loaded with DC for first shot, Fed. #4 for first followup, then DC again. Two coyotes, standing still, at about 35 and 40 yards. Aimed for heart/lungs. Both knocked down with first shot, but both "vigorously wiggling their tails", so shot them again immediately without waiting to see if they would get back up or not. Both dead with second shot. The other one, running, about 20 yards, don't know where the first shot hit it, but did knock it down but it got right back up so shot it again and again knocked down, but again still quite alive so shot it a third time without waiting to see if it would get back up again.
Tim shot two with it also, both not over 25 yards but both worse results than mine. First one not knocked down, have to assume poor placement, he hit it again, still wiggling around and I finished it with my rifle (using my ammo and I didnt' want to see another DC shell used!). Second one he hit, I saw plainly a poor lower/back half hit - saw the dust jumping off it - it spun around a few times then got down in a ditch and we never found it.
- DAA
Used an 870, with a SpeedBead and Carlsons Dead Coyote choke, Hevi Dead Coyote 3" T and Fed. Premium #4 buck. The SpeedBead was carefully zeroed at 40 yards. Would have to dig up old notes to give you actual numbers on the pattern, I did this all years ago, then never used it until this past weekend, but it was patterning "pretty tight" going by the wonderfully informative thread GC has pinned in this forum.
Had the 870 loaded with DC for first shot, Fed. #4 for first followup, then DC again. Two coyotes, standing still, at about 35 and 40 yards. Aimed for heart/lungs. Both knocked down with first shot, but both "vigorously wiggling their tails", so shot them again immediately without waiting to see if they would get back up or not. Both dead with second shot. The other one, running, about 20 yards, don't know where the first shot hit it, but did knock it down but it got right back up so shot it again and again knocked down, but again still quite alive so shot it a third time without waiting to see if it would get back up again.
Tim shot two with it also, both not over 25 yards but both worse results than mine. First one not knocked down, have to assume poor placement, he hit it again, still wiggling around and I finished it with my rifle (using my ammo and I didnt' want to see another DC shell used!). Second one he hit, I saw plainly a poor lower/back half hit - saw the dust jumping off it - it spun around a few times then got down in a ditch and we never found it.
- DAA
Dave, we all get excited or else it would be no fun. You probably hit the coyote with an edge of the pattern.
For many years, I hunted with a Rem 1100 with a standard fixed full choke, 3" mag, that put all the 41 pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards. This is not what would be considered a tight pattern today.
This shotgun worked for many guys that I took, they loved it. The shotgun was named the hammer, not to tight, not too open, just about right.
Spending some time shooting on the skeet ranges gives a guy a tune up with a shot gun for running coyotes.
I have had guys swear that shotgun was no good, then I hung a dead coyote up in a tree and let them shoot the coyote again....humbling.
For many years, I hunted with a Rem 1100 with a standard fixed full choke, 3" mag, that put all the 41 pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards. This is not what would be considered a tight pattern today.
This shotgun worked for many guys that I took, they loved it. The shotgun was named the hammer, not to tight, not too open, just about right.
Spending some time shooting on the skeet ranges gives a guy a tune up with a shot gun for running coyotes.
I have had guys swear that shotgun was no good, then I hung a dead coyote up in a tree and let them shoot the coyote again....humbling.
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So a little follow up to my own thread here...
Killed 5 more with the shotgun over the weekend. And all 5 were instant one shot kills. Very different from the previous experience of having to shoot them all twice.
Two things I did differently.
First, I aimed for the head. Last time, I was aiming for center chest. After starting this thread and paying attention to the replies, this time, I was aiming for the face.
Second, I used a completely different load and choke. Not something I'll be able to use regularly, the shot isn't available anymore. And I couldn't afford to use it often even if it was. But thanks to Bob I was able to get a taste of what can be done with hand loads if one wishes to pursue it. Was using 3" loads with 1 1/2 oz. of Federal Heavyweight #2 shot. It's denser than lead, 15g/cc if I'm remembering right, but also much harder than lead. About as hard as steel? Penetrates and breaks bones like crazy. About 90 pellets in the 1 1/2 oz. load. Using the Rem. factory screw in modified choke.
The results of aiming that load for the head were quite impressive to my inexperienced eyes. Five coyotes at distances from 15 to 45 yards, all but one running, all five one shot and were dead when they hit the ground as best I can tell. Peeling the hides off a few, that large pellet count was resulting in a whole lot of pellet hits in the head and neck and they were penetrating the skull with ease. Too bad you can't buy that stuff anymore. The price on comparable shot that is available is just too high for this kid to consider.
But, anyway, I'm a greenhorn here. Not enough experience to think I know anything yet or even have fully formed opinions. But this really opened my eyes to the possibilities with using higher pellet counts of smaller, heavier, harder shot - when you can find it and afford it.
The first two I took with the shotgun this weekend, an adult pair.
Setup in some thick sage, kind of stand I'd never dream of making with a rifle. At about 45 seconds into the stand, the big male ran past me only 5 yards away on his way to the caller. I hadn't seen him coming. Just barely started the caller and all the sudden there is a big coyote hauling ash right past me.
There are a lot of things I can't do as well as I used to. Jumping up to shoot coyotes is one of them. Jumping up isn't even the right way to describe how I move now. There is a sort of an unfolding process that has to take place before I can go from sitting to fully standing. Anyway... By the time I get to my feet and start to turn towards the caller, I'm seeing two things. One, there is another coyote about 70 yards out and closing fast. And I also see the big male is molesting my CS-24. He's up on his hind legs getting right after the Foxpro where it's sitting in the top of a sage brush. I bring the shotgun up on the male only 10 yards away but don't shoot because I don't want to shoot my Foxpro - I'm aiming for his head and his head is all up in the caller. He disengages, notices me and starts to run away. I shoot him going straight away at about 20 yards and he hits the ground grave yard dead. Would later see about ten individual trickles of blood coming from the back of his noggin which no longer had any structural integrity.
So, now I turn to see what the female is up to. She's flared off and leaving at an almost straight right to left gallop at 45 yards (later paced off). I swung the SpeedBead out past her nose and let it rip. She went out of sight in the thick brush. Not sure I had even hit her, but afraid I had and at that distance she was going to need a followup, I hustled over to where all the dust had flown at my shot. She too, was grave yard dead when I got to her. Peeling her hide later revealed she had taken somewhere around 15 pellets to the head and neck and they had penetrated the skull and clear through the neck at that range.
Have to admit, that close in fast action and hosing down a pair like that, it was pretty fun
.
- DAA
Killed 5 more with the shotgun over the weekend. And all 5 were instant one shot kills. Very different from the previous experience of having to shoot them all twice.
Two things I did differently.
First, I aimed for the head. Last time, I was aiming for center chest. After starting this thread and paying attention to the replies, this time, I was aiming for the face.
Second, I used a completely different load and choke. Not something I'll be able to use regularly, the shot isn't available anymore. And I couldn't afford to use it often even if it was. But thanks to Bob I was able to get a taste of what can be done with hand loads if one wishes to pursue it. Was using 3" loads with 1 1/2 oz. of Federal Heavyweight #2 shot. It's denser than lead, 15g/cc if I'm remembering right, but also much harder than lead. About as hard as steel? Penetrates and breaks bones like crazy. About 90 pellets in the 1 1/2 oz. load. Using the Rem. factory screw in modified choke.
The results of aiming that load for the head were quite impressive to my inexperienced eyes. Five coyotes at distances from 15 to 45 yards, all but one running, all five one shot and were dead when they hit the ground as best I can tell. Peeling the hides off a few, that large pellet count was resulting in a whole lot of pellet hits in the head and neck and they were penetrating the skull with ease. Too bad you can't buy that stuff anymore. The price on comparable shot that is available is just too high for this kid to consider.
But, anyway, I'm a greenhorn here. Not enough experience to think I know anything yet or even have fully formed opinions. But this really opened my eyes to the possibilities with using higher pellet counts of smaller, heavier, harder shot - when you can find it and afford it.
The first two I took with the shotgun this weekend, an adult pair.
Setup in some thick sage, kind of stand I'd never dream of making with a rifle. At about 45 seconds into the stand, the big male ran past me only 5 yards away on his way to the caller. I hadn't seen him coming. Just barely started the caller and all the sudden there is a big coyote hauling ash right past me.
There are a lot of things I can't do as well as I used to. Jumping up to shoot coyotes is one of them. Jumping up isn't even the right way to describe how I move now. There is a sort of an unfolding process that has to take place before I can go from sitting to fully standing. Anyway... By the time I get to my feet and start to turn towards the caller, I'm seeing two things. One, there is another coyote about 70 yards out and closing fast. And I also see the big male is molesting my CS-24. He's up on his hind legs getting right after the Foxpro where it's sitting in the top of a sage brush. I bring the shotgun up on the male only 10 yards away but don't shoot because I don't want to shoot my Foxpro - I'm aiming for his head and his head is all up in the caller. He disengages, notices me and starts to run away. I shoot him going straight away at about 20 yards and he hits the ground grave yard dead. Would later see about ten individual trickles of blood coming from the back of his noggin which no longer had any structural integrity.
So, now I turn to see what the female is up to. She's flared off and leaving at an almost straight right to left gallop at 45 yards (later paced off). I swung the SpeedBead out past her nose and let it rip. She went out of sight in the thick brush. Not sure I had even hit her, but afraid I had and at that distance she was going to need a followup, I hustled over to where all the dust had flown at my shot. She too, was grave yard dead when I got to her. Peeling her hide later revealed she had taken somewhere around 15 pellets to the head and neck and they had penetrated the skull and clear through the neck at that range.
Have to admit, that close in fast action and hosing down a pair like that, it was pretty fun
- DAA
That sounds like fun. I'm a rifleman at heart, never could get excited about shotgun, nor was I worth a darn with one, but....that sounds like fun. Have a couple of places that would be worth giving the scattergun a chance.
Enjoyed the read & got a chuckle out of Quote:He's up on his hind legs getting right after the Foxpro where it's sitting in the top of a sage brush. I bring the shotgun up on the male only 10 yards away but don't shoot because I don't want to shoot my Foxpro - I'm aiming for his head and his head is all up in the caller.
Regards,
hm
Enjoyed the read & got a chuckle out of Quote:He's up on his hind legs getting right after the Foxpro where it's sitting in the top of a sage brush. I bring the shotgun up on the male only 10 yards away but don't shoot because I don't want to shoot my Foxpro - I'm aiming for his head and his head is all up in the caller.
Regards,
hm
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
https://www.natchezss.com/hevi-shot-2-10lb-bulk.html
https://www.natchezss.com/hevi-shot-bb-10lb-bulk.html
Both of these "above links" Hevi-Shot shot sizes from Natchez would make good coyote loads. At $100.00 for 10 pounds you can reload 3" 1-1/2 oz Hevi-Shot loads for about $1.70 per shell and that is with new primed Fiocchi hulls. Once this old inventory of Remington Hevi-Shot is gone don't plan on ever seeing it at this price again.
The #2 Hevi-Shot I got from Natchez was around #1 shot or "B" shot in size so it will work on coyotes at 50 yards and less.
https://www.natchezss.com/hevi-shot-bb-10lb-bulk.html
Both of these "above links" Hevi-Shot shot sizes from Natchez would make good coyote loads. At $100.00 for 10 pounds you can reload 3" 1-1/2 oz Hevi-Shot loads for about $1.70 per shell and that is with new primed Fiocchi hulls. Once this old inventory of Remington Hevi-Shot is gone don't plan on ever seeing it at this price again.
The #2 Hevi-Shot I got from Natchez was around #1 shot or "B" shot in size so it will work on coyotes at 50 yards and less.
I ordered 10 lbs of the BB yesterday. From what I have seen in looking around a lot recently, that is a great price on shot that isn't easy to find. If I had more discretionary funds to play with right now, I'd order more of it. And I haven't even got a press yet
.
- DAA
- DAA
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
Dave now you need to take pictures of the coyotes as they are running up to your Foxpro while your shotgun is in your lap.
When the coyote or coyotes turns to leave you drop the camera and pick up your shotgun and start shooting.
If there is not to much brush give it a try.
Most coyotes run up to the Foxpro and then leave the way they cam in. The above coyote ran right by the Foxpro and right by me. By the time I switched to my shotgun and got turned around it was a going away 35 yard shot.
When the coyote or coyotes turns to leave you drop the camera and pick up your shotgun and start shooting.
If there is not to much brush give it a try.
Most coyotes run up to the Foxpro and then leave the way they cam in. The above coyote ran right by the Foxpro and right by me. By the time I switched to my shotgun and got turned around it was a going away 35 yard shot.
I don't know, but I kind of doubt I'm coordinated enough to switch from the camera to the gun like that. To date, I've just carried one or the other, camera or gun. But here is a picture I took last year, of a young coyote getting after the caller sort of like the big old male was last weekend. Not exactly the same, but similar.
Last weekend, it was a tall thick piece of sage the call was in and the coyote had his front legs resting up in the sage and could reach the caller, which he was biting.
- DAA
Last weekend, it was a tall thick piece of sage the call was in and the coyote had his front legs resting up in the sage and could reach the caller, which he was biting.
- DAA
Cranesville Hunter
New member
Originally Posted By: DAAI don't know, but I kind of doubt I'm coordinated enough to switch from the camera to the gun like that. To date, I've just carried one or the other, camera or gun. But here is a picture I took last year, of a young coyote getting after the caller sort of like the big old male was last weekend. Not exactly the same, but similar.
Last weekend, it was a tall thick piece of sage the call was in and the coyote had his front legs resting up in the sage and could reach the caller, which he was biting.
- DAA
That is a one of a kind picture! Enjoyed your post and the awesome picture, thanks for sharing.
Last weekend, it was a tall thick piece of sage the call was in and the coyote had his front legs resting up in the sage and could reach the caller, which he was biting.
- DAA
That is a one of a kind picture! Enjoyed your post and the awesome picture, thanks for sharing.
Brent Parker
New member
I am also new to shotgun hunting as well. Started in early March and have killed roughly 40 with the shotgun. I am running a Benelli M1 21" barrel and a Carlson Dead Coyote choke tube and a Trijicon MRO. All I have run so far is dead coyote T and had some Remington HD BB. Have killed several at 50-54 yards. Checked with a rangefinder. Both have seemed to kill very well so far. I have decided to start reloading as well for shot shells. What has surprised me was the number of locations I have been driving past. I have also called several cats in calling in this tighter cover that i have missed. Now I know were to go back to.
I have two friends that have both been trying to convince me to start hunting with a shotgun and have resisted. I think I should have listened to them sooner!
I have two friends that have both been trying to convince me to start hunting with a shotgun and have resisted. I think I should have listened to them sooner!