Likewise, GZ. This is all about fun for me & the pup...
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackeyWhere do you guys get the misconceptions that you need to train a dog to defend itself? The point that is trying to be made s simple, and it makes no difference weather a guy hunts with decoy dogs or not, a general understanding of dogs will tell you that if a dog is doing its job, let it do its job.
If you find yourself "teaching your dog to defend himself" well then o would say you don't have much of a dog there.
Jesse, I don't have ANY misconceptions as to training 'defense'. You are reading more into that than is really there. It has already been established in this thread that ANY dog worth it's hide already possesses the innate ability & desire to defend itself.
I was simply making apparent the difference in BEHAVIOR, one to the other. When training a dog, a handler's goal is to reinforce desired behaviors and admonish undesirable ones. Even smart dogs are at best DUMB, and need consistent & repeated reinforcement & praise to lock in a desirable behavior. If a handler deviates somehow, it is only confusing the dog, therefore making it's training more difficult. Put a dog with 1/2 a brain cell, ample prey drive and the desire to please in a position to succeed and 99x out of 100, that hunting dog is gonna make you smile. But it's OUR job as their handler/trainer to effectively CREATE that scenario and PRAISE that behavior accordingly.
To recommend that a dog which has already seen 15 coyote on stand, needs a few coon to 'teach' it, isn't going to further that dog any in it's decoy training. At best, it won't help one bit and more likely, at worst, it's just gonna confuse the dog as to what you expect from it. These cur dogs are very sensitive to pleasing you, so IMHO, not good to screw with their little brains like that. They learn quick enough, so why make it harder?
Training a multipurpoe hunting dog is exponentially harder, and requires much more specific parameters for locking in desired behaviors. This is where having a dog with 'brains' (loosely used) is essential! But you still need to establish what you want the dog to do & be consistent enough for the dog to figure out what it's job is at the moment...
That said, the fact remains that having your pup fight a coon makes about as much sense to me for training a decoy dog as would training your foxhound to perform a water retrieve
The one desired BEHAVIOR of the dog has nothing to do with the other...
Using 'offgame' to fire up a young pup is one thing. But that interaction dang sure ain't gonna learn that pup how to FOOL A COYOTE BACK TO YOU ON A CALLING STAND. This has been my whole stance all along and I'm stickin' to it. That part requires BRAINS (learned behavior), not brawn (basic prey drive)...
Originally Posted By: CatdawgThere are reasons to use coons for training a decoy dog, like to fire up the game drive in a pup and maybe to teach a pup what end has teeth and means business... other than that, the dog will learn very little that will help it with coyotes.
So again to all, forget the 'firing a pup up' excuse and tell us exactly HOW chasing/fighting a coon will help bring out & develop the 'tolling' behavior that is essential for a decoy dog to to do it's job???
It is my opinion that you don't just throw a dog some offgame to chew & call it a started decoy dog. It is very difficult to simulate the desired behavior of a decoy dog on stand. From what little I understand of the behavior, the most effective way to do it remains taking the pup on stand, after stand, after stand, after stand.
I'm not singling you out in my reply, Jesse. I'd like to hear from any anyone else who's gung ho on using coons to train their decoy pups. How does the behavior of engage & pursue to a fight (coon) somehow correlate to engage, then run away from a fight (coyote)???