Straight-walled pistol cartridge reloading

Hidalgo

Hidalgo

Well-known member
OK, it's time to start reloading for the ACP & the 38 Super. I've got everything I need to go at it, but I have no IDEA how much to "flare the case" with the expander die. I'm loading strickly Hornady XTP JHP bullets. Probably never going to load anything else.

How much to I need to expand the mouth? If I get too aggressive I am assuming the seating die will close it back up? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Also...I'm not crimping these loads. Should I be crimping for these calibers? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Hidalgo, When reloading straight cases you only need to flair the brass just enought so the base of the bullet doesn't "catch" on the case mouth. I crimp all my cases...but you must use a TAPER crimp and not a roll crimp. A taper crimp puts a tapered squeeze on the loaded round so it feeds better in your Autos. It makes sure that the expanded case has no flair on the end.
 
Thats rite just enough for the bullet to seat
as far as crimping goes I use the one that came with the die have no idea but my loads feed freely in my DW razorback I didn't buy a special crimp die for it
 
Hidalgo
If your into it for the plinking check out the Rainier bullets on Midways site, they have them in most calibers, cheaper than everything else and they shoot pretty good.
 
Quote:
OK, it's time to start reloading for the ACP & the 38 Super. I've got everything I need to go at it, but I have no IDEA how much to "flare the case" with the expander die. I'm loading strickly Hornady XTP JHP bullets. Probably never going to load anything else.

How much to I need to expand the mouth? If I get too aggressive I am assuming the seating die will close it back up? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Also...I'm not crimping these loads. Should I be crimping for these calibers? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



Higgy, Dude - loading straight pistol cases can't get any easier. There are no decisions to be made.

The sizer sizes the case.

The expander expands the case - set the plug in the expander so it just gives enough flair to the case mouth to seat the bullet - no more!!!

Do the primer and powder stuff, put the bullet in, and taper crimp it. The taper crimp should be almost invisible - if you see it "diging into the case" it is too much.

There - that's all there is to it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Meow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


.
 
Depending on the die set/brand your seating die should put a small taper crimp when set correctly, you won't even see it. The flairing die should be set to the minimum flair you can feel check it with a bullet the bullet base should set down just inside the flair. To much can stop the case from entering the seating die. I have been doing this a lot of years I load both revolver and pistol catridges they each are a little differant but really pretty easy once you get the hang of it. It is sort of a matter of feel you will most likely crush a couple cases before you get it right do not give up though. once you get the settings right it goes slicker than snot on a doorknob
 
Everyone's saying to crimp......

I have read that since these rounds headspace off the end of the case, that a crimp might cause problems. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Reloading dies for auto cases that headspace off of the case mouth are designed to taper crimp them so they still headspace right. Don't worry about that, your dies are made to load and crimp ammo correctly.
 
Quote:
Reloading dies for auto cases that headspace off of the case mouth are designed to taper crimp them so they still headspace right. Don't worry about that, your dies are made to load and crimp ammo correctly.



Absolutely correct! Taper crimp on autos since they headspace on the case. Roll crimp revolver loads.
 
Funny thing about .45 ACP rounds, that "headspace off the case mouth". Years ago, for bullseye shooting, I was going to trim 5000 pieces of brass, for uniformity. Only thing was, I never found one that even came up to the "trim to" length. If you have a chamber which will headspace on the seated bullet, you will gain a lot in uniformity of loads.(at least according to the NRA Reloading Handbook, but my chambers are too long) Otherwise, and where I suspect most of us are at, the extractor is what is actually holding your case. I ought to make a chamber cast, to see just how much gap is there, but since it works fine, I just shoot them.
 
Hidalgo,
I liked blinddog's explanation on this question.

Another way to look at it is that you should have enough flare that you can just set a bullet on and it won't fall off, if you let go of it. A flare that increases the diameter of the shell at the mouth by 2 times the thickness of the case wall is plenty. The more you flare the case the more work hardened it gets and the sooner cracks can develop.

Most streight wall sizing dies reduce the case diameter way more than needed to get adequate bullet tension, so a tight crimp is not all that important. You do need to squeeze down the case rim to take out all of the flare to eliminate any chance of feeding problems. The crimp is barely visible at all if done right. It might take a few tries to get the die set right. Worst thing you can do is crimping before the bullet is fully seated and crush the round and/or press the shell mouth into the bullet and deform it. If you pulled a bullet from a loaded round, the bullet should not be damaged.
 
One other thing that will make your pistol ammo a lot more uniform, is to seat and crimp in separate steps. Dillon does this by having two dies, each doing one thing. If your dies seat and crimp in one step, back it off the crimp, set the bullet seating depth for that operation, then go back with the seater backed off, and crimp as desired. A whole lot better!
 
Want to be X carefull with your powder charge also. Unlike the 223 thats crammed full, depending on the charge and powder you will not fill the case and is easier to mistake it for an empty, thus double charging it.


I like the 2 step Onionskin explained also. You may screw up a few during the setup but once they press without shearing your there. Too much flare and your case mouth's will start splitting.





Taper Crimp! You will "Feel" when its just right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif


Dave
 
Flare= minimum needed, you won't need much at all with jacketed bullets, plated need a bit more so you don't peel the lating off.

Crimp= remove the above flare, nothing more.

I agree with seating and crimping in two stages and because you will be buying a second die for criming, might as well make it a Lee FCD.

peace.
unloaded
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Here's where I'm at so far.......

My brass thickness at the case mouth after resizing is .014

My bullet diameter is .355

I have read that my crimp measurement should be:

Case thickness (x2) plus bullet diameter.

So that would be .028 + .355 which is .383

After crimping mine measure .380 -.381 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Will these be OK to shoot, or did I screw up already? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I tried dropping them into the chamber and they just fall right in. Will too much crimp cause excessive pressures?

I only loaded 15 rounds, so I can junk them if I need to.
 
If they drop in the chamber they will shoot. Better undersized a bit especially if you have mixed headstamp brass. If you have mixed brass load a couple of each one and test by trying to drop them in the chamber too.

Also
I have 4 different 45acp pistols, 2 Para's, 1 Colt Commander, and 1 XD. I want my reloads to work in all of them, being alittle under isnt a bad thing.

ETA, I havnt had a problem with taper crimps and pressures in my 45's. I have noticed more with the roll crimps on the .357 and 44's. its easy to go way overboard with a roll crimp.
 
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That won't hurt anything. For taper crimp, I always figure if you can see it all, thats plenty. Or measure the case right below the crimp, and then at the crimp. If you have .0005", thats enough; as earlier noted, the case tension on the bullet is sufficient for lots of the mild loads we run through the auto's. It can be unsightly, but the bullet 'bulge' in the case is showing your case tension, and varies according to the dies being used. If it looks like a coke bottle, I'd be looking for a different sizing die, but some bulge is good.
 
All of the above and I would seriously look at the Lee Factory Crimp die. I load 10s of thousands of pistol rounds on two Dillon 550s and have the Lee die as my final stage on both for all calibers. Not only does it give a good crimp, it smooths out any bulges and the likes on the full length of the case. Makes auto reloads run much smoother.
 
Hidalgo,
You gave them a bit more crimp than needed but they will be fine to shoot. Just back off till they measure .383 +-.0005. If you load a lot of these, a three die CARBIDE set is the way to go. No lube required and they last for ever. Like some of the other guys said, seating and crimping in two dies is best, and you won't have to reset the die between operations. I'm a little partial to the Dillon dies, but the RCBS carbide worked fine for me as well.

Case length is usually not critical with the two calibers your loading. 357, 44 mag, and those that are roll crimped work much better if they are all the same length. The roll crimp comes out more uniform and pressures stay more consistant.
 
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