suppressors

I think there is some things that need to be addressed here.

Please take a moment and read over this about NFA trusts.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/NFA_Gun_Trust_brochure.pdf


Co-owners and Authorized Users
If an individual purchases Title II firearms then he or she is the only one
permitted to use or have access to them. Many people incorrectly believe that
it is ok to let others use their NFA firearms when in their presence. However,
the NFA would consider this a transfer and be a violation of the law. When
your spouse or someone else knows the combination to your firearms safe, you
may be violating the law through constructive possession. Improper possession
through constructive possession is a form of an unapproved transfer and a
violation of the NFA. If you use an NFA Gun Trust to purchase Title II firearms,
you can designate additional owners and authorized users. If you want to
add or change users or owners a NFA Trust can be adapted to reflect your
current desires. The risk of constructive possession can be dealt with by adding
that person to the NFA Gun Trust so that they can be in legal possession of
the Firearms. This can help protect you and your family from the penalties of
violating the NFA.
 
Originally Posted By: cjdavis618I think there is some things that need to be addressed here.

Please take a moment and read over this about NFA trusts.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/NFA_Gun_Trust_brochure.pdf


Co-owners and Authorized Users
If an individual purchases Title II firearms then he or she is the only one
permitted to use or have access to them. Many people incorrectly believe that
it is ok to let others use their NFA firearms when in their presence. However,
the NFA would consider this a transfer and be a violation of the law. When
your spouse or someone else knows the combination to your firearms safe, you
may be violating the law through constructive possession. Improper possession
through constructive possession is a form of an unapproved transfer and a
violation of the NFA. If you use an NFA Gun Trust to purchase Title II firearms,
you can designate additional owners and authorized users. If you want to
add or change users or owners a NFA Trust can be adapted to reflect your
current desires. The risk of constructive possession can be dealt with by adding
that person to the NFA Gun Trust so that they can be in legal possession of
the Firearms. This can help protect you and your family from the penalties of
violating the NFA.

Let me just say this. A lawyer is doing and saying what he needs to do to sell you a trust.
This is also the same group that says a quicken trust is no good either. Go figure.
There are things in this statement above that are not true. He will tell you whatever he needs to tell you to get it done.

If you want to know the correct answers to your questions you need to talk to the BATF directly. Bottom line.

 
Understood, but our "opinion" doesn't hold weight in prison. I'll err on the side of caution based on the vague ATF language and the experience of an attorney. The "loan" definition could be a very broad term depending on the agent/judge.

You can call the ATF 3 times and get 3 answers.
 
You don't have to have a lawyer set up a trust, you can get the documentation/forms and have them notarized and then file them. Most Banks will do the notary free of charge if you have an account with them.

You would be the executor of the trust, in the event of your death you would need to have a new executor identified, and so forth and so on..
I have my father and wife and at some point will have the kids when they get bigger.
I can add my friend if I wanted to, and you can always take names off.

It all seems silly and over the top for something that simply quiets the gun fire. It just seems dumb to me to fill out the same paperwork for a muffler as a Machine Gun.
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZIt all seems silly and over the top for something that simply quiets the gun fire. It just seems dumb to me to fill out the same paperwork for a muffler as a Machine Gun.

Truer words were never spoken! Hearing protection got roped in with hand grenades back in the 1930's. This is a good lesson in politics and legislation.

Sendit
 
Originally Posted By: cjdavis618Understood, but our "opinion" doesn't hold weight in prison. I'll err on the side of caution based on the vague ATF language and the experience of an attorney. The "loan" definition could be a very broad term depending on the agent/judge.

You can call the ATF 3 times and get 3 answers.

All true, except for the thought that an attorney would tell you to use an attorney. The language of the NFA branch is actually the language of a more honest time. They clearly stated their intentions as to the law. Like the verbage "shall not be infringed".
 
So can I set up a trust after the fact and then add the suppressor that I already own to it? It would be very nice to be able to let my son use it too. He's three right now so I have many years to figure it out. A suppressor would be the ultimate way to get kids into shooting larger calibers. On a prairie dog shoot this last summer I had a 9 year old girl sitting right next to me. As I blazed away with my 22-250 she just sat there and ate a sandwich. No hearing protection and it didn't bother her one bit. There is no "shockwave" coming off the barrel and very comfortable report. Kids don't like the recoil or the noise and a suppressor takes care of both.
 
Originally Posted By: dogtiredOriginally Posted By: cjdavis618Understood, but our "opinion" doesn't hold weight in prison. I'll err on the side of caution based on the vague ATF language and the experience of an attorney. The "loan" definition could be a very broad term knowdepending on the agent/judge.

You can call the ATF 3 times and get 3 answers.

All true, except for the thought that an attorney would tell you to use an attorney. The language of the NFA branch is actually the language of a more honest time. They clearly stated their intentions as to the law. Like the verbage "shall not be infringed".

Believe me, I would much rather not use an attorney. I think they are part of the problem with this country and one of the reasons issues cannot be resolved easily in society. Like was already mentioned, the fact that a suppressor is nothing but a muffler with a hole, and has to be regulated like this is asinine.

However, I know from my daily interactions with attorneys I support with my business, it is necessary to realize that a prosecutor is an attorney. Should something ever go wrong, or the trust come into question, the attorney that created the trust will be involved in discovery and litigation. I want to have as much in my favor as possible should something happen. You know what they say about people that represent themselves in court.
wink.gif


Is the experience of an attorney really worth it for $200-$600 to guide you through the process and back you if there is an issue? Is it really worth the risk to have a half baked trust and be put in prison for 10 years with a possible $250,000 fine?
 
Yes but you have to pay the $200 tax stamp again to transfer Into the trust.


Originally Posted By: Suppressed in SDSo can I set up a trust after the fact and then add the suppressor that I already own to it? It would be very nice to be able to let my son use it too. He's three right now so I have many years to figure it out. A suppressor would be the ultimate way to get kids into shooting larger calibers. On a prairie dog shoot this last summer I had a 9 year old girl sitting right next to me. As I blazed away with my 22-250 she just sat there and ate a sandwich. No hearing protection and it didn't bother her one bit. There is no "shockwave" coming off the barrel and very comfortable report. Kids don't like the recoil or the noise and a suppressor takes care of both.
 
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I do understand your caution but you assume that your attorney is not able to make the same mistake on you trust as you are? The info has been hashed over time and time again, but to gain control of the NFA weapon you must receive your tax stamp. To pass the review of your application you must attach a copy of said trust. The trust is reviewed by the NFA branch for appropriateness and then either approved or kicked back as non-valid.

Your caution is well deserved. I am not advocating any particular stance but the acquisition of NFA stuff has been going on for 80 years. It is just not that complex.

Suppressed in SD, you can transfer your personally owned suppressor to the trust but you will also have to pay $200 for the transfer. The only bright part of that is you still have it in hand while the paperwork is processed.
 
I'll get the trust done AFTER I have my cans in hand. I have two forms waiting to get approved. I hope only a few more months....

I agree that a trust would be better.
 
Wow the information here is appalling.
Stop asking for opinions from people that are just guessing based on hearsay.
Go to THE SOURCE, and get it IN WRITING!
 
Originally Posted By: VaporWow the information here is appalling.
Stop asking for opinions from people that are just guessing based on hearsay.
Go to THE SOURCE, and get it IN WRITING!

I tried telling them that. They make excuses and prefer internet experts.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: cjdavis618Originally Posted By: dogtiredOriginally Posted By: cjdavis618Understood, but our "opinion" doesn't hold weight in prison. I'll err on the side of caution based on the vague ATF language and the experience of an attorney. The "loan" definition could be a very broad term knowdepending on the agent/judge.

You can call the ATF 3 times and get 3 answers.

All true, except for the thought that an attorney would tell you to use an attorney. The language of the NFA branch is actually the language of a more honest time. They clearly stated their intentions as to the law. Like the verbage "shall not be infringed".

Believe me, I would much rather not use an attorney. I think they are part of the problem with this country and one of the reasons issues cannot be resolved easily in society. Like was already mentioned, the fact that a suppressor is nothing but a muffler with a hole, and has to be regulated like this is asinine.

However, I know from my daily interactions with attorneys I support with my business, it is necessary to realize that a prosecutor is an attorney. Should something ever go wrong, or the trust come into question, the attorney that created the trust will be involved in discovery and litigation. I want to have as much in my favor as possible should something happen. You know what they say about people that represent themselves in court.
wink.gif


Is the experience of an attorney really worth it for $200-$600 to guide you through the process and back you if there is an issue? Is it really worth the risk to have a half baked trust and be put in prison for 10 years with a possible $250,000 fine?




FYI...With the purposed changes there will be no reason to have a trust or a need for an attorney as the days of NFA clubs will be over.
 
I just finished setting up a trust and the people I went with are super nice and fast. They answered all my questions before hand. I put 4 people on mine. here is there info if you want to give them a shout. They only charged me $150.

AMANDA J. WILHELM, ATTORNEY-AT-LAW
(210) 863-2755
or Bens number is (210) 863-2673

tell them Coy sent you.
 
Originally Posted By: VaporWow the information here is appalling.
Stop asking for opinions from people that are just guessing based on hearsay.
Go to THE SOURCE, and get it IN WRITING!


So do you have any area of expertise on this topic to know if the info is appalling? Who is the Source you refer to, the ATF?
 
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