Suprised with 17HMR results

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Bill1227, I have tried everything except the XTP in 17 and 2o gr. The 20 gr. gamepoints grouped the best in my gun and were the most wind resistant. POI at 100 yds was almost identical for all the various shells. Only major difference in 17 and 20 gr is past 150 yds.



As you are also in groundhog country. Try the XTP's, thanks to a tip. Through use they are now my prefered woodchuck 17hmr ammo. "Glen" passed the tip on to me. I can confirm now. They work best with "some bone". As you know head & shoulder (bone) shots are not to diffacult with in the 17hmr range on G-hogs from sticks or bi-pod.

I had mixed results on g-hogs using v-max in the past a certain distance approx. 100-125 yards. They worked great inside or to that. Beyond, I had to pin point the neck which is a smaller target for best results. The XTP changed that. What surprised me , rather than just knifeing/sliceing through, was how much energy(knock down) it unleashed in the process for passing through. It really walups them when some bone is hit and exits the size of a quarter.

All I can say is try'em. G-hogs can be pretty big as you know. About the only thing I will use the v-max for now is close range off hand shooting which I enjoy on chucks. Frankly, I am not good enough to just take head shots doing that. The V-max covers me at close range to the chest area for that. I usually pop in a v-max clip when walking/stalking the edges and one just pops up or from a hedge row at 50 yards. Little time to sit or set, just pull up, aim, and shoot for the fat part. I then pop in the XTP clip when I sit or set up,sneak.........have .
time,etc. I also carry the v-max clip for crows.


Give them a try. I have not tried the "gamepoints". I know it's the same bullet but, I think the hornady xtp runs a little hotter fps though. The tnt's gave me mixed results at extended ranges also like the v-max.

I prefer no wind or a cross wind when reaching with the 17hmr on G-Hogs. As a head wind may cause the bullet to drop and turn a head shot into a gut shot. Cross wind is ususally a clean miss if mis-judged. And as you know these woodchucks often just stand there after the shot, with the low repor of the 17hmr /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif, giving one another chance. The 22-250 repor sends them all to there hole /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Differant size critters, differant distances, differant bullets for one caliber..........it's a good thing.
 
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CZ makes an awsome gun in 17hmr good quality for the price. Thats what I reccomend got a 427 varminter. I also have a Savage 93 I really regretted this purchase untill I got a Basix sear for it. The factory trigger was close to 8 1/2lbs. The CZ was good out of the box but a trigger job would definetly improve it but not really necessary. MY .02 again.



The CZ is a nice little rimfire. But, in fairness as far as accuracy. I think most the 17's in bolt are about the same in the under $500.00 catagory. I had a Savage before this and it grouped about the same. The trigger was about 5 pounds. I did the spring and shim trigger job and it was just a less pull creepy trigger in realty. Should have just left it. For varmints at those ranges I can shoot a 5lb trigger fine once I get used to it and a certain grip. I have a little Marlin 60 SS 22lr (pretty little gun won in a raffle with a fixed 4x) that I take for woodchucks now and then and shoot off hand on my backyard range. That rifle has the worst trigger I have ever used and I hate it for the first few shots, until I get used to it. Yet, with a firm grip, off shooting sticks, with in it's 50-60 yard head shot range on g-hogs. I have no problem, if I remember which rifle I am using and how to shoot it. I would not want it for a bench gun. My CZ has the set trigger which I have adjusted the normal trigger on for pull and after travel. From the bench I can shoot the normal trigger about as well as the set (1 is 1# 1 is 3.5#) but both are crisp now. I like the set feature in the field off sticks though.
I almost bought a Marlin this time. Savage,Marlin,CZ,etc. they are all good on accuracy. It's the ammo and spitzer bullets that make it accurate IMO. The CZ has a real safety and good mid priced workmanship but they all shoot well from what I have seen in the under $500.00 class. There is a lot of $225.00 bolt action 17hmr's that shoot very well and work fine. Thats what fun about rimfires for varmints and small predators, there not expensive,work fine for varmints,cheap ammo,fun to shoot,low repor and zero recoil,pretty darn accurate, and the neighbors don't get scared hearing them. Personally, I have went back to more walking for varmints rather than setting up for long shots with a C.F. It's not like g-hogs just keep comming out like other varmints do anyways. It can get boreing waiting for the long shot and not real satisfying shooting one at 125 yards with a 22-250. Usually, this time of year if I just "sit" set up in the hay field I get the crap bit out of me from bugs.

So, I walk and see more, get more shots doing so, work on keeping the belly off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, keep the heart ticking, kick up a fox, notice a new den, see more deer and turkey, cover more ground and get to miss a 50 yard off hand shot now and then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif too .......just like when I was a kid.

Mostly, it's just nice to be out. Got permission from a farmer Sunday evening to hunt some more fields too.........referalls work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I would be interested in knowing what the XTP's do to crows. Our season is out right now. My Marlin shoots the V-Max at 2625fps & it shoots thru crows. I don't get the blowup that most folks are getting with it. My experience with the 17gr TNT's weren't satisfactory to me. Sometimes they worked quite well but for the most part they shot right thru groundhogs. Very small exit wound & the hogs would make the hole. Not good in my mind. I had 2 head shots under 100yds where the TNT's blew up & I had to give em a 2nd shot. I decided last spring to carry the XTP's exclusively & I am very glad I did. Like Bill says,, they pack a wallup for a little guy. But the V-Max go along when I'm around buildings & livestock or rocks.
 
Bill 1227,

Thanks for your good words, I do appreciate that. I just try to treat others the way I would want to be treated - with honesty, respect and kindness. And also, I don't claim to know everything. I just give my views like everyone else and share what I know or think, and my interests and love for the sport. I have really enjoyed these forums because I think there are a lot of good, dedicated people here who really enjoy each other's stories. True friendships have been developed here. I have learned a lot from these forums.

Yes, the 20 gr. Gamepoints shoot very well and I have used them more than any others. I have 17 gr bullets of various brands, but I seem to just find myself going back to the 20's when shooting crows. I personally think they hit harder, but maybe that's just my thought.

I will tell you one thing I learned, which was very pleasing. I found that when shooting both Remington 17 gr. bullets and then shooting the 20 gr. Gamepoints, that the point of impact was so near the same at 100 yards that I didn't have to change the scope setting at all. I just use whichever bullet I wish at the time and go hunting. Now that's amazing to me, since I am avid handloader and rarely ever experience that with centerfires. I don't know if others have found the same to be true or not, but at least with my gun, it is. And, as I mentioned before, when sighted at 50 yards, the impact is practically the same at 100 - there probably isn't 1/2" worth of difference. That's been my experience anyway.

I'm not getting the "blow ups" on crows like a lot of people have mentioned, with either the 17 gr or 20 grain bullets. The crows go down, but I haven't seen the gaping holes that many have reported. I've also had two or three crows try to "fly while dead", but didn't make it very far.

Accuracy of the 17 HMR is quite good. I have found, like some others have reported, that there are unexpected, crazy fliers with the 17 HMR. I have noticed that I may be getting a terrific group and suddenly one jumps out, normally not enough to really cause a problem on game, but enough to ruin a nice little group. Here is a target I shot at 100 yards using the 20 gr. Game Points. I used Metric here since I sent this picture to a friend in South Africa, but in good ole USA measurement, it's about 5/8" at 100 yards. The white circle is approximately 3/4" across.

100YdCZ.jpg


Comparison of cartridges. The 22 Magnum is a 33 gr. V-Max and the 17 HMR
is the 20 gr. Game Point. I think everyone will agree that the 17 HMR is a
neat little cartridge.

BulletComparisons.jpg
 
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During the 2004 year I shot about 1,500 prairie dogs with a Cooper M 57 LVT w/ a 4.5-14 X AO Burris BP scope using Hornady 17 Gr V-Max bullets seroed at 125 Yds. I have shot a few p dogs beyound 200 Yds but now limit my shots to 150 Yds. Last year I got a Cooper M 57 LVT 17 HM2 rifle and use it for shots out to 80 Yds and switch to the 17 HMR for longer shots. Shot about 600 p dogs with the 17 HM2 round but dident keep a seperate records on the HMR and center fire rounds. The 17 rimfires are fine rifles for spring prairie dog shooting dumb dogs.-- This year shot about 230 p dogs , most with the 17 HM2 ---Tuck 2
 
i used the 20 gr. xtp's on tree rats last fall and they worked like a charm. didnt blow them up like the v-max did.
i like the hmr,the accuracy is hard to beat as far as rimfires are concerned.


jk
 
Lots of good info, thanks. Finally got the Trashco 4-16 mounted. Went to the range today and got semi sighted in. The wind was blowing pretty good, so I didn't fine tune the scope. Will have to wait for a calmer day. Looking forward to shooting a few rockchucks this summer. I've checked 4 different stores so far and all I can come up with is the TNT and Rem, Horn, and Fedaral V-maxes.
 
I have taken a few crows and a handfull of grey squirrles with my 17 HMR. I have been shooting the 17gr V-Max in mine. The 17 HMR is great on grey squirrels too. I just aim for the middle and the HMR does the rest. It will gut them for ya too.
 
I'm a big .17 HMR fan. Got my first one, a Savage 93, last year and used it to take several Rock Chucks in eastern Washington. It has the worst trigger of any gun I've ever owned!! Did the brass shim trick and made it marginally better, but still not good by any means. My next option is to put one of the Rifle Basix triggers in it like my shooting buddy did to his Marlin and he is very pleased with it. My latest addition to the gun safe was a CZ 452 that is one sweet shootin' machine. The Savage averaged around 1-1/4" at 100 yards, plenty good enough for ground squirrels and 'chucks out to 100 yards. But the new CZ is consistantly an honest 3/4" 100 yard gun and I used it very effectively out to 150 yards on our latest Idaho ground squirrel adventure. The trigger still isn't perfect, but I'm hopeing to resolve that with one of Eric Brooks' trigger kits just to reduce some of the creep! My ammo of choice in both is the Hornady 17 grain V-Max. Very accurate and deadly.
 
Thanks for the tip! Squirrel season is open here in AR. now
& the V-Max is too destructive for them, I was looking at getting a HM2 for Squirrels, but maybe the 20XTP is no more destructive than the HM2 load, so I will try that instead & maybe put the money in ammo.
 
nomosendero,
CCI also makes a FMJ in 20 gr. I believe. Although they didn't shoot as well as the gamepoints for me, they would probably be minute of squirrel accurate around 75 yds with pass through only. I'm waiting for tree rat season here to give'em a try along with the XTP and gamepoints. The v-maxes are just too rough on the little guys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.
 


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