Tactical 20, anyone shooting them?

dtech

dtech

New member
I just ordered 4 sets of dies, a chamber-reamer set and the headspace gauges for the Tactical 20. I am going to take a couple of the .20 cal. Shilen barrels that I've ordered and make a couple of AR uppers. Anyone out there shooting this round? I would love hear what you guys think of the cartridge.
 
Just recieved mine from the gunsmith two weeks ago. Built on a rem. L/H bolt HS precision full alum. bedded block with a douglas 26in. tube 1 in 12 twist. Still playing with loads the loads I used for breaking in the barrel so far the berger 40 grain with 26.0 Benchmark have been impressive to say the least. 4 shot group @ a 100yds. all touching. tried the 40 nosler with Re10x not that good yet still playing with the Re10X charges. also going to work up a load with the berger 35 grainer and try some H-322 on these different bullets as well. I will let you know on the results if you would like. So far I have been impressed with the 20 Tac. Can't wait to try it out on some coyotes.
 
I have one in a bolt gun and it's a real fun gun. Accurate and gives very little away to the .204 with about two less grains of powder. It does take fireforming. I would think that the 20 Practical would be a much better choice for an AR. 20 Practical.
 
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I like mine for a light weight carry gun. Its built on a stainless mod 7 action and has a douglas stainless 12 twist barrel. It shoots the 40gr vmax and nosler very well with N133.
 
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I think Bayou City Boy has been playing with them for years.



I think that is correct. Mike, I would shoot BCB a message if I were you. The guy is pretty sharp on the 20-T.
 
LOL!! I'm not sure on the "sharp" part, but I currently own two of them and have shot one since 1999. Both are bolt guns.

You could probably argue all day as to which is better - the Tac 20 or the 204 Ruger - as they are ballistic twins. The Tac 20 is a little bit better balanced cartridge in terms of powder consumption, velocity and bore diameter, but not enough to get rich on over the powder saving in 100 years.

A negative I see frequently stated for the Tac 20 is you have to fire form cases with it. In reality, you use the form die to push the shoulder back and neck the case down in one operation (with the newer Redding form die) and then fire form. Very little fire forming actually takes place other than the case is improved slightly. But, I've never seen a Tac 20 yet that won't shoot a fire form load to the same point of impact as a formed case will. And they both use the exact same powder charge.

So....the fire forming issue/disadvantage is a little over stated in reality.

I have an older Redding form die that pushes the case shoulder back on a 223 Rem case, but I then run the case through a Tac 20 FL size die to reduce the case neck to 20 caliber. At some point, Redding changed their form die to do it all in one step, but I'm not sure when they did that.

You can get by in making Tac 20 cases without the form die just by running a 223 Rem case through a Tac 20 FL die. However, you generally get a wrinkled case body just below the case shoulder that shoots out OK the first time. But, the case looks crappy going into the rifle the first time.

I'm not sorry I sprung for the form die. Several other Tac 20 shooters I know don't use one and have suffered no ill effects with the wrinkled cases. Personal preference, I guess, of looks versus the cost of the form die.

A real advantage is the good 223 Rem brass like IMI and Lapua that is available to make Tac 20 cases. I realize that IMI cases are hard to find today. I bought 1000 IMI cases in 1999 and am still using them. WW brass works great also. I've never tried Rem or Federal 223 Rem cases.

Just for reference, the case length of a fully formed Tac 20 case is the same as the length of a 223 Rem case. No trimming is required or needed.

As for reloading the Tac 20, I've tried several powders over the years, but always end up going back to Benchmark. It just seems to fit the Tac 20 case very well. Rel 10X also works well.

Mike johnson's Twenty Caliber page has some good Tac 20 reloading recipes. The bullets mentioned are no longer available (33 grain Hornady, 36 grain Berger, and 40 grain Lucas custom bullet), but the data gives you a good place to start with today's 20 caliber factory bullets.

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/6mmackley/twentycaliber.html

So...that's a little bit about the Tac 20. PM me if you have other questions, and I'll try to help.

-BCB
 
one note that seems to get overlooked, hunting shack loads tac 20 ammunition (and cooper used to sell loaded ammunition as well) which for me, would be a big plus if I had an AR in this chambering. That pretty much takes any sting out of a fireforming step for my logic, providing one can afford the loaded ammunition, which IMO is reasonably priced to begin with.
 
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one note that seems to get overlooked, hunting shack loads tac 20 ammunition (and cooper used to sell loaded ammunition as well) which for me, would be a big plus if I had an AR in this chambering. That pretty much takes any sting out of a fireforming step for my logic, providing one can afford the loaded ammunition, which IMO is reasonably priced to begin with.



I've never bought any of their Tac 20 ammunition, but it would not surprise me if it is die formed but not fire formed. It takes more than just a casual eye to see the difference between a fire formed Tac 20 case versus just a die formed case even when you have them side-by-side.

I know of one person who die forms military 223 cases for a Tac 20 AR upper and all he has ever done with his AR is fire the die formed cases. He doesn't pick up and reuse the cheap military brass as he sees no benefit in picking up the fire formed cases versus just using more die formed cases.

As I stated in my post above, they will both shoot to the same point of impact anyway. Generally fire formed wildcat ammunition is expensive because fire forming is necessary to get the case fully formed and looking like what it should look like. That means at the least that time and powder costs have to be factored into the final cost to make the wildat case look "ready to go". That's just not the situation with the Tac 20.

In my two rifles and all the other Tac 20 rifles I personally know of, accuracy and velocity are the same with both die formed and fire formed cases. And again, they both shoot to the same point of impact.

To illustrate what I'm saying, the case on the left I just die formed from a piece of 223 military brass. The case on the right has been fired and reloaded 4 times in one of my Tac 20 rifles. As you can see, there's not a lot of real difference between the two. The reloaded case is slightly improved and the case shoulder is a little sharper at the junctions on the reloaded case, but otherwise there's not a real significant difference between the two.



JMO - BCB
 
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Practical 20 just seems to be more practical to me.



And it's a good cartridge, but it's nothing new in the 20 caliber world.

I shot one in the 1980's, but back then it was called the 5MM-223, and it was the exact same case design. PO Ackley even referred to it in one of his two volumes on cartridge reloading.

But for that matter, the 204 Ruger is not new either. It was once called the 20 Terminator and came about just after the 222 RM case was introduced in the 1960's. The only thing that has changed with the 204 Ruger is a couple of very minor differences that takes a caliper and some real close scrutiny to find (the 20 Terminator has a slightly longer case neck), and the 204 Ruger has better powders available today.

The best part is that just about anything in 20 caliber is pretty good ballistically.

-BCB
 
I too think its just die formed. The one argument I always hear is that fireforming step and with loaded ammunition available it sorta takes a whole lotta wind out of that criticism. The first time you load, you are loading a fireformed case. Just an observation, I dont think alot of people know about hunting shack. Just looking at their price list, its .40 cents ish cheaper than their 204 ruger offerings per 50 pc. If the brass is good and the ammo halfway decent enough to shoot at pdogs, its probably a good card to have up your sleeve when considering Tac 20. I only bring this up because the main complaint I always hear is a)no factory ammo and then b)fireforming. I think this kinda shuts down both to some degree. Anyhow, dont mean to derail this thread, just trying to be helpful.
 
I have one I ordered from John Noveske. It is an 18" Match Pac Nor LIGHTWEIGHT barrel. It has a Bushmaster round aluminum forend. This gun/round is very accurate and get over 3700 fps through a chronograph. Very easy to load. Redding dies, a form die and FL and seater die. I have always used H4198 powder and 22.0 grs behind the 33 gr Hornady bullet. Very sweet gun for calling. I think the round is very efficient and not temperamental to load.
 
I shoot one built on a Remington 700 action, Lilja
barrel 26". 25.9 grains of 10X pushes a 40 grain
Berger bullet at 4075fps. One hole groups at one
hundred yards. Outstanding round.
yote hunter.
 
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