yoteblaster
Active member
Killing range is all determined on bullet selection and weight. Using a V-Max or using a softpoint, the softpoint will kill at a lot longer distance.
Tell me about the .223 caliber...
- Thread starter Seeking_Coyotes
- Start date
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That scope is a 30mm tube. 6.5X20X40 with the VH reticle. No need for TT's on a rifle for a 223. The reticle subtensions work perfectly at 200, 300, and 400 yards.
HOGHEAD:
I imagine that you find that scope as sweet as I do. I have exactly the same scope and rings, but on a 223 bolt and I can't say enough good things about that glass. Simply wicked.
That scope is a 30mm tube. 6.5X20X40 with the VH reticle. No need for TT's on a rifle for a 223. The reticle subtensions work perfectly at 200, 300, and 400 yards.
HOGHEAD:
I imagine that you find that scope as sweet as I do. I have exactly the same scope and rings, but on a 223 bolt and I can't say enough good things about that glass. Simply wicked.
I've a few AR's in .223 and use them on coyotes with pretty good luck but I use them as a calling rifle. That means most of my shots are under 100 yards and most alot less than that. I use 50 gr bullets mostly but have tried the 77 gr SMK's and they would be my choice if long range was expected. Get a 1/7 or 1/8 twist barrel and the .223 can be pretty versatile.
4949shooter
New member
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I have a couple AR's in .223 and a Remmy 700 Classic in .223. I enjoy shooting each and every one of these rifles. I really like the AR platform for coyote hunting, but don't find the .223's particulary good for coyotes. AS 4949 said, the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces to put them down reliably at times. I've used my .223 rifles on coyotes and it seems I end up taking follow up shots much more often with the .223's than with my larger caliber rifles. With that said, I prefer to use a .22-250 or a .243 for coyotes here.
Judging by the size of the dog in your avatar, it comes as no surprise you like to use something heavier.
I have a couple AR's in .223 and a Remmy 700 Classic in .223. I enjoy shooting each and every one of these rifles. I really like the AR platform for coyote hunting, but don't find the .223's particulary good for coyotes. AS 4949 said, the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces to put them down reliably at times. I've used my .223 rifles on coyotes and it seems I end up taking follow up shots much more often with the .223's than with my larger caliber rifles. With that said, I prefer to use a .22-250 or a .243 for coyotes here.
Judging by the size of the dog in your avatar, it comes as no surprise you like to use something heavier.
yoteslayer77
New member
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I am kinda surprised that the military espouses kills on humans out to 300 meters which I think is beyond 300 yards and folks here think that less than 300 meters is the kill range for small critters.
Most humans probably aren't as tough as most critters, Plus I always heard that wounding the enemy was more vital than killing. One guy down two supposedly to drag him away or care for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Good post! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Exactly what i was going to say.
I am kinda surprised that the military espouses kills on humans out to 300 meters which I think is beyond 300 yards and folks here think that less than 300 meters is the kill range for small critters.
Most humans probably aren't as tough as most critters, Plus I always heard that wounding the enemy was more vital than killing. One guy down two supposedly to drag him away or care for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Good post! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Exactly what i was going to say.
Seeking_Coyotes
New member
It sounds like I should go with the soft point. Anybody know how heavy I can go on bullets with the 1:9 twist and 16" barrell and not sacrafice accuracy out to 200 yards?
Also, for some strange reason the gun I am getting is the only RRA AR-15 with the standard 5.56 chamber and not the Wylde 223 / 5.56 chamber. Not sure why this is so but I have been told the 5.56 is a hotter load for some reason although I imagine the gun will shoot either well.
Anybody have a suggestion for cases and reloading dies that will work well on my Rock Chucker Supreme specifically made for the 5.56?
Also, for some strange reason the gun I am getting is the only RRA AR-15 with the standard 5.56 chamber and not the Wylde 223 / 5.56 chamber. Not sure why this is so but I have been told the 5.56 is a hotter load for some reason although I imagine the gun will shoot either well.
Anybody have a suggestion for cases and reloading dies that will work well on my Rock Chucker Supreme specifically made for the 5.56?
MPFD
Well-known member
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the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
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xtrempredhntr
New member
I would look at the 65 gr BTSP from sierra. They should shoot out of the 1-9" twist just fine. They are a well constructed bullet and very accurate. If you want a soft point for longer distances, this is the one I would go with. I agree with MPFD on this one...I have shot pigs up to 300 lbs with the 223, they will run bit on a shoulder shot, but not all that far. Not able to take long shoulder shots on the pigs, farthest I have gone is 80 yds...over that its a ear shot...many deer and countles coyotes and bobcats have fallen with the 223 as well...most have fallen right there, a few runners but no more the 50 yds. If they run farther then that or I can not recover them...I know it is my fault and not the caliber. Use a well constructed bullet and practice to hit at those longer ranges, you will have plenty of gun for coyotes.
yoteblaster
Active member
I live in the midwest and rarely have any run off. I would bet that more Coyotes die in this nation by 223 than any other round out there.
4949shooter
New member
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the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
It is not a matter of target practice, sir. It is a matter of preference. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Quote:
the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
It is not a matter of target practice, sir. It is a matter of preference. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Linefinder
New member
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300 meters is the accepted military range on the 5.56 cartridge.
Chupa
USMC Service Rifle qualification (and yearly re-qual) includes a 500 meter course of prone slow-fire. If you can't chew up a half-man silhouette target at that range with iron sights, you don't qualify, and you'll spend the rest of your time at the range until you do. Most folks nail the qualification on the first attempt.
I've killed pdogs past 725 yards with .223 Rem bolt guns on occasion, and at 500 yards plus change pretty routinely.
Mike
300 meters is the accepted military range on the 5.56 cartridge.
Chupa
USMC Service Rifle qualification (and yearly re-qual) includes a 500 meter course of prone slow-fire. If you can't chew up a half-man silhouette target at that range with iron sights, you don't qualify, and you'll spend the rest of your time at the range until you do. Most folks nail the qualification on the first attempt.
I've killed pdogs past 725 yards with .223 Rem bolt guns on occasion, and at 500 yards plus change pretty routinely.
Mike
I do not shoot an AR, perferring a Rem M700 VS for my recreational shooting activities. With the 223 crosswind kills groups do to the lighter weight bullets used in varmint hunting/shooting. While the heavier bullets are better in the wind, they do not expand as violently as the 40-55 gr bullets. You will always be working with trade-offs and will find it difficult to come-up with a do-all load.
Bottom line - shoot whatever it is that floats your boat remembering if you are not flexible - get ready to be bent.
Bottom line - shoot whatever it is that floats your boat remembering if you are not flexible - get ready to be bent.
Chupathingy
New member
USMC Service Rifle qualification (and yearly re-qual) includes a 500 meter course of prone slow-fire. If you can't chew up a half-man silhouette target at that range with iron sights, you don't qualify, and you'll spend the rest of your time at the range until you do. Most folks nail the qualification on the first attempt.
I've killed pdogs past 725 yards with .223 Rem bolt guns on occasion, and at 500 yards plus change pretty routinely.
Mike
I happen to know as a point of fact that an 80gr VLD can be shot to 1 mile ACCURATELY, but I also know it has virtually nothing on it when it gets there. So by way of your thinking, a .223 has an "Effective Range" of 1 mile. I don't think so /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. It's not a matter of how far the projectile can fly, but at what point the required energy to kill reliably has bled off. Yes the military does shoot the 5.56mm round out to 600 yards in competition but they are shooting paper, and paper don't need much killin.
The military's accepted "Effective Range" of the 5.56mm round IS 300 meters and that is a fact, just like the sky is blue. The farthest ends of the "Effective Range" does not imply that it has the required energy to reliably kill either, rather that it has the required energy to reliably inflict enough damage to effectively eliminate the enemy from the fight.
The 5.56mm round was developed for that specific range of engagement(0-300 meters).
Chupa
scottmilk9
New member
Quote:
Quote:
the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
I agree whole heartedly. Shot placement and if your shooting 200-300 on a coyote, start using a heavier bullet.
If a .223 wasn't powerful enough to kill a coyote, then some states wouldn't allow the .223 to hunt with for deer(like AZ and others) There are better cartridges for longer range shooting, but don't knock the .223 for up to a 300yd shot on a coyote.
Quote:
the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
I agree whole heartedly. Shot placement and if your shooting 200-300 on a coyote, start using a heavier bullet.
If a .223 wasn't powerful enough to kill a coyote, then some states wouldn't allow the .223 to hunt with for deer(like AZ and others) There are better cartridges for longer range shooting, but don't knock the .223 for up to a 300yd shot on a coyote.
Chupathingy
New member
Quote:
Quote:
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the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
I agree whole heartedly. Shot placement and if your shooting 200-300 on a coyote, start using a heavier bullet.
If a .223 wasn't powerful enough to kill a coyote, then some states wouldn't allow the .223 to hunt with for deer(like AZ and others) There are better cartridges for longer range shooting, but don't knock the .223 for up to a 300yd shot on a coyote.
Thank you sir /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Well said. Up to 300yds I believe the .223 is about as perfect a coyote caliber there is.
Chupa
Quote:
Quote:
the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
I agree whole heartedly. Shot placement and if your shooting 200-300 on a coyote, start using a heavier bullet.
If a .223 wasn't powerful enough to kill a coyote, then some states wouldn't allow the .223 to hunt with for deer(like AZ and others) There are better cartridges for longer range shooting, but don't knock the .223 for up to a 300yd shot on a coyote.
Thank you sir /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Well said. Up to 300yds I believe the .223 is about as perfect a coyote caliber there is.
Chupa
4949shooter
New member
Quote:
Quote:
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the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
I agree whole heartedly. Shot placement and if your shooting 200-300 on a coyote, start using a heavier bullet.
If a .223 wasn't powerful enough to kill a coyote, then some states wouldn't allow the .223 to hunt with for deer(like AZ and others) There are better cartridges for longer range shooting, but don't knock the .223 for up to a 300yd shot on a coyote.
Scott,
I don't think anyone knocked the .223 or said it was not powerful enough to kill a coyote. At least I know I didn't say that.
What I meant, and I think the others meant as well, is that there are other choices out there besides the .223. We are not forced to use a .223 here in the northeast. Some of us prefer more powerful cartridges due to our experience here.
Sure, we could kill coyotes and deer with a .223 here if we so desired. But maybe the kill wouldn't be as swift, or maybe there would be more tracking involved, or maybe we just prefer a larger bullet. So what?
I wouldn't recommend a .223 on northern deer either, but I would respect your opinion and choice to use it.
Quote:
Quote:
the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces
BS! I know a service manager from a CAT dealership in the Ukraine that hunts and kills wolves up to 60 kilos (130 lbs) with a Remington 700 chambered in .223 remington on a regular basis. Many 200+ pound deer fall every year all around the midwest & Texas from the .223, If you can't kill a coyote with a .223 you don't need a bigger gun you need target practice.
I agree whole heartedly. Shot placement and if your shooting 200-300 on a coyote, start using a heavier bullet.
If a .223 wasn't powerful enough to kill a coyote, then some states wouldn't allow the .223 to hunt with for deer(like AZ and others) There are better cartridges for longer range shooting, but don't knock the .223 for up to a 300yd shot on a coyote.
Scott,
I don't think anyone knocked the .223 or said it was not powerful enough to kill a coyote. At least I know I didn't say that.
What I meant, and I think the others meant as well, is that there are other choices out there besides the .223. We are not forced to use a .223 here in the northeast. Some of us prefer more powerful cartridges due to our experience here.
Sure, we could kill coyotes and deer with a .223 here if we so desired. But maybe the kill wouldn't be as swift, or maybe there would be more tracking involved, or maybe we just prefer a larger bullet. So what?
I wouldn't recommend a .223 on northern deer either, but I would respect your opinion and choice to use it.
coyote6974
New member
"I have a couple AR's in .223 and a Remmy 700 Classic in .223. I enjoy shooting each and every one of these rifles. I really like the AR platform for coyote hunting, but don't find the .223's particulary good for coyotes. AS 4949 said, the coyotes in the east are often larger than the southwest variety, and it takes a bit more energy than a .223 produces to put them down reliably at times. I've used my .223 rifles on coyotes and it seems I end up taking follow up shots much more often with the .223's than with my larger caliber rifles. With that said, I prefer to use a .22-250 or a .243 for coyotes here."
If you take a look here at my post on this subject, I don't think you'll see that I said you couldn't kill a coyote with a .223. I simply said I didn't find it particularly good for hunting coyotes. That's simply my opinion.. Maybe I should have said when compared to a .22-250 or a .243. I also said it didn't put coyotes down reliably at times, and that I found more coyotes required a follow up shot when I used a .223 than when I used a .22-250 or my .243.
I'm the same shooter, shooting called coyotes with all three calibers. I've observed that some I'VE shot with a .223 don't die as quickly as those I'VE shot with the other two calibers. Do I just shoot poorly with my .223's compared to the other calibers? Maybe if I hunted west of the Misssissippi river I would get a different result. The .223 delivers less energy than the other two calibers I mentioned. It only makes sense that it would be the least effective of the three.
4949 thanks for your comments. The coyote in my avitar weighed just over 45 pounds. Most of the mature males around here will go 38 to 40 pounds, while the females usually go between 30 and 35.
Coyote 6974
If you take a look here at my post on this subject, I don't think you'll see that I said you couldn't kill a coyote with a .223. I simply said I didn't find it particularly good for hunting coyotes. That's simply my opinion.. Maybe I should have said when compared to a .22-250 or a .243. I also said it didn't put coyotes down reliably at times, and that I found more coyotes required a follow up shot when I used a .223 than when I used a .22-250 or my .243.
I'm the same shooter, shooting called coyotes with all three calibers. I've observed that some I'VE shot with a .223 don't die as quickly as those I'VE shot with the other two calibers. Do I just shoot poorly with my .223's compared to the other calibers? Maybe if I hunted west of the Misssissippi river I would get a different result. The .223 delivers less energy than the other two calibers I mentioned. It only makes sense that it would be the least effective of the three.
4949 thanks for your comments. The coyote in my avitar weighed just over 45 pounds. Most of the mature males around here will go 38 to 40 pounds, while the females usually go between 30 and 35.
Coyote 6974