Testing Nagel 30's on coyote...

DAA

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Managed to mostly avoid the rain and the mud yesterday and found a few coyotes willing to give their all in the name of bullet testing
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.

A brief coyote by coyote synopsis:

First coyote, YoY female, running away at a slight angle, about 100 yards. Hit her low in the ham, bullet went up and hamburged the pelvis area - big hole between the legs. She was spinning, so I hit her again. Big hole on shoulder near neck/shoulder junction. Was basically shooting at a weasel ball, couldn't say whether that big hole was the entrance or the exit. Forgot to take pictures of this one.


Coyotes two and three, killed a few minutes apart on the same stand. First one, adult female, frontal facing shot at 20 yards, bang flop. Big hole in the back. Second one on this stand, YoY female, frontal facing, 25 yards, no exit, zero damage.

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Fourth coyote, small adult male, frontal facing at about 40 yards, no exit, no damage.

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Group photo before the rain made them ugly...

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Fifth coyote, YoY female, frontal facing shot at about 110 yards, she took the bullet right up the nose. She looks kind of ugly because it started to rain during this stand.

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And, once the rain started on that stand, it didn't quit, so that was it for calling yesterday.

I did manage to pick up two more on one stand today about noon though, after the sun dried things up a bit. A small very old female and a decent sized adult male. The small female was about 140 yards frontal facing. Bang flop, no damage. The larger male was about 320 yards broadside, bang flop, no damage.

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The old females teeth - she was an old one for sure.

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And that's pretty much all the news that's fit to print! Oh, except, almost forgot to mention, I missed two...

Getting some craters on my primers with this load, I need to get back and tweak it some. Back off the pressure and the velocity a bit, then go get out amongst 'em again and see what I can see.

- DAA
 
sounds like penetration is NOT an issue. Maybe slowing them down a bit will be a good thing?
Thanks for the report Dave....
 
Originally Posted By: songdogsounds like penetration is NOT an issue. Maybe slowing them down a bit will be a good thing?
Thanks for the report Dave....

I really think it just might be a good thing. Need to, anyway, with this powder at least. The load I was using is definitely a bit too warm for my taste. Cratered primers are not good when you have already have a turned and bushed firing pin!

- DAA
 
How much do you think they need to be slowed down to get the performance you want? I only ask cause I am thinking of building a 17-223 in an ar and am still considering possible loads and components. Might be that these 30's would work pretty well in a 9 twist at 3500-3600fps?
 
I have no idea, to be honest. Might be as much or more a matter of reducing pressure, as reducing velocity (though the two are, for practical purposes, almost one and the same). But, pressure, specifically high pressure, can cause some funny effects on terminal performance, separate and distinct from velocity. Pressure can effect jacket integrity.

But, straight answer to the question - I do not know. But I can say this. If I have to back them off below 4000 fps, I won't be happy. Be losing out on trajectory performance that I value.

I really don't see that happening though. I'm just going to back off the throttle until the primers look well, clock it, go kill some coyotes, see how it goes. If I have to, I'll try a different powder to get there.

Really though, as far as terminal performance, I'm perfectly happy with what I'm seeing so far. Can't have everything, no free lunch and all that. My opinion, based on my experience with this stuff, you can't get the kind of velocity, flatness of trajectory, and downrange energy I want, all in one package, without some occasional fur damage. Stuff happens. Shoulder bones, poor bullet placement, unfortunate angles etc. Can't avoid it all, all the time.

You CAN get more reliable minimizing of fur damage. But, in my experience, that comes with the price of reduced performance in trajectory and downrange energy. I'm seeking a balance on the hot end of the scale...

If I was putting all my eggs in the fur basket, I'd just use my .17 Mach IV with the old 25 gr. Berger Match. It doesn't come close the .17 Predator with 30's in the performance category and I have to be much more careful with shot selection to make clean kills. But within it's limits of range and shot placement, it's about as perfect a fur rig for coyote as I have ever seen.

- DAA
 
Funny you mention the Mach IV as fur gun, it is my favorite. I see where you are coming from on running the 30 grainers hard; also agree on the 'no free lunch' with fur saving vs ballistic performance. I am looking at the AR platform as I have black rifle disease and would like to have one in a 17 cal. Appreciate your time in posting your efforts, results and ideas.
 
looks like a great time out Dave. a good sample of distances and angles.
did you happen to skin any of them??
at what speed are you pushing them now?

can't wait to hear about round 2
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you missed?
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Dave, they are leaving the muzzle at close to 4100 fps with this load. I skinned the two best looking ones, not great but not terrible, little faint blue along the back bone. Bellies were real weak though. Not sure what I'm going to do with fur this year. Last couple years I've been selling my pelts green, not putting them up, but that guy isn't buying this year. I don't have time to put up fur these days. I'll figure something out I guess.

And yeah, missed. Twice. Been happening more and more the last few years. My best shooting days are definitely behind me I'm afraid...


Originally Posted By: JoshuaNNice work Dave. I need to find out where you live so I can follow you to your honey hole, J/K.

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You'll have to wait another year to follow me to that spot
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. I don't often hunt the same area twice in one year. I have too much wander lust for that. And actually, this wasn't a honey hole, it was all new stuff for me - hadn't ever made any of these stands. Always nice to find new spots!

- DAA
 
It's a double edged sword. As it's all public land, anyone can hunt it. And they do!

But there is a virtually unlimited amount of it to explore. I've been exploring it my whole life, will continue to explore it for the rest of my life, I won't come anywhere close to putting a dent in seeing it all.

I just like getting out and seeing what's over the next mountain. Coyote hunting is a good excuse for it.

- DAA
 
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