Most people never stop to question it. We've been told our whole lives that diamonds and gold are incredibly valuable, so we just accept it. But if you were trying to survive, you can't eat, clothe yourself, or stay warm with a rock or a mineral.
the no more pennies scam
- Thread starter bohunr
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Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
LOL.. oil is consumed in it's first use therefore it is gone. So now the dollar used to represent it now is without a commodity to back it. Therefore now useless. Gold is durable it's not consumed in it first usage therefore is still present. The idea in Gold and Silver is to have a physical Item that all agree is valuable, that is NOT consumed in it's usage and can be used. The Idea is to LIMIT the PRINTING of currency to a physical commodity that all agree is valuable. Preventing over printing of a currency thus making it worthless. Could Oil be used? sure but that means you can't refine it use it but do nothing but store it because one needs to be able to have a item to back the paper or promise. While many of us yell the "the Gold Silver" standard, heck that standard could be based on diamonds, bronze, brass, or any durable metal /material. The concept is to LIMIT and not print more than you have a material that everyone agrees is valuable.
IF the world reset and modern civilization was to go back to zero. Would Gold / Silver retain it's value... Most like not. Land water, food, and clothing would be the commodities all will seek and be valuable.
The fiat system is based on faith and belief that the issuer will provide a tangible / valuable item on demand. Currency is a true barter system, I hand you this for that. Once they over print those notes the ability now has diminished and requires the note in even greater quantity. Thus resulting in less and less exchange power for actual needed item food, oil product which yes is in everything plastics etc etc. The list is endless.
When gold and silver was used the price was set by governmental agreements not markets. That kept overprint/minting down to the actual wealth or value and availability of the backing item.
In the US minting of coins yes they have had silver and gold in them the exact amount in ozs of the agreed rate. So a 1860 silver dime nickel, or whatever actually contained more silver than a 1959 coin of the exact denomination. This explains why the treasury melted the coins down when taking them out of circulation. because the $$ per troy oz went up meant a ever so slight increase in availability when reminting as the alloy was change to reflect the correct new amount of silver / gold. But was never enough increase to over inflate the availability based on population (supply vs demand). Gold / Silver standard is a stupid simple checks and balance system. A country cannot print more notes than it has a tangible physical item for exchange.
observe below the one dollar it plainly states 1 dollar in silver to the bearer on demand. that means a person could in fact go to the bank and actually say here I want silver.
Pull out your dollar does it state payable to the bearer oil? no it doesn't. Nor is it likely to ever say pay to the bear in AI. A matter of fact there is NOTHING that it offers in return for it's face value, so yeah there is a TON of misinformation.
The example above was printing in Hawaii and intended to remain in that US territory (1935 it wasn't a state) and If Hawaii ever fell occupied the understanding is the note would become useless. But it does work as a example.
ETA thought of this later... Now if you took just a $1.00 silver certificate to the bank back then and demand or requested Silver the common practice was to give you eith dime nickels or quarters Because Coinage actually contained silver, some coinage denominations was gold. Which gold became a touchy subject in 1933 under FDR's gold grab.
IF the world reset and modern civilization was to go back to zero. Would Gold / Silver retain it's value... Most like not. Land water, food, and clothing would be the commodities all will seek and be valuable.
The fiat system is based on faith and belief that the issuer will provide a tangible / valuable item on demand. Currency is a true barter system, I hand you this for that. Once they over print those notes the ability now has diminished and requires the note in even greater quantity. Thus resulting in less and less exchange power for actual needed item food, oil product which yes is in everything plastics etc etc. The list is endless.
When gold and silver was used the price was set by governmental agreements not markets. That kept overprint/minting down to the actual wealth or value and availability of the backing item.
In the US minting of coins yes they have had silver and gold in them the exact amount in ozs of the agreed rate. So a 1860 silver dime nickel, or whatever actually contained more silver than a 1959 coin of the exact denomination. This explains why the treasury melted the coins down when taking them out of circulation. because the $$ per troy oz went up meant a ever so slight increase in availability when reminting as the alloy was change to reflect the correct new amount of silver / gold. But was never enough increase to over inflate the availability based on population (supply vs demand). Gold / Silver standard is a stupid simple checks and balance system. A country cannot print more notes than it has a tangible physical item for exchange.
observe below the one dollar it plainly states 1 dollar in silver to the bearer on demand. that means a person could in fact go to the bank and actually say here I want silver.
Pull out your dollar does it state payable to the bearer oil? no it doesn't. Nor is it likely to ever say pay to the bear in AI. A matter of fact there is NOTHING that it offers in return for it's face value, so yeah there is a TON of misinformation.
The example above was printing in Hawaii and intended to remain in that US territory (1935 it wasn't a state) and If Hawaii ever fell occupied the understanding is the note would become useless. But it does work as a example.
ETA thought of this later... Now if you took just a $1.00 silver certificate to the bank back then and demand or requested Silver the common practice was to give you eith dime nickels or quarters Because Coinage actually contained silver, some coinage denominations was gold. Which gold became a touchy subject in 1933 under FDR's gold grab.
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Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
Items that would not work because they are not durable, and are usually consumables:
Water either consumed or if left in a jar or containment become unusable, unless properly stored or allowed to flow to filter thus you no longer control it.
any foodstuff .. spoilage
Clothing while a decent durable is prone to rotting etc etc.
Yet these would become the exact barter materials highly sought in society breakdown in a reset.
(BTW if you have never seen actual pure Gold it's BUTT UGLY without being alloyed with something else. Tarnishes in no time. and is praised in earlier years for it abilities in dental care. rattle that in your head if one can't eat they can't survive regardless. And yes MANY have in the past died because of poor dental hygiene)
Water either consumed or if left in a jar or containment become unusable, unless properly stored or allowed to flow to filter thus you no longer control it.
any foodstuff .. spoilage
Clothing while a decent durable is prone to rotting etc etc.
Yet these would become the exact barter materials highly sought in society breakdown in a reset.
(BTW if you have never seen actual pure Gold it's BUTT UGLY without being alloyed with something else. Tarnishes in no time. and is praised in earlier years for it abilities in dental care. rattle that in your head if one can't eat they can't survive regardless. And yes MANY have in the past died because of poor dental hygiene)
I've seen a lot of very nearly pure gold. Not 100% pure, true. But over 90%. Nuggets found with my metal detector. As pure as you are going to find in the ground. The only way to get more pure is by refining, not in nature. After who knows how many hundreds of thousands, or millions of years in the ground, they come out shiny yellow and stay that way?
Some of last years finds.
This spring, life conspired to keep me from getting out in the gold fields. Hopefully, this fall I'll be back out there, adding to my poke.
The only pure gold I've ever seen or handled, is refined bullion. Have handled a lot of it. .999%. Never seen a hint of tarnish on any of it? I'm the furthest thing from knowledgeable about it though. I just find the stuff. But have always been told, and have seen first hand, tarnish indicates copper content? Gold from our local Uintas has a lot of copper content and is well known for tarnish.
- DAA
I don't disagree with the purpose of a gold standard. Its biggest strength is exactly what you saidāit limits governments from creating money out of thin air.
Where I think we differ is on what gave the dollar its global dominance after we left gold.
The petrodollar wasn't about storing barrels of oil in a vault to "back" every dollar. It was about creating worldwide demand for dollars because nations needed dollars to buy the one commodity every modern economy depended on: oil.
Gold is a store of value. Oil was a store of demand. If civilization collapsed tomorrow, I'd take land, water, food, and skills over a pile of gold every day of the week. But we aren't talking about surviving in the woods. We're talking about what made the U.S. dollar the world's reserve currency for the last 50 years.
One limits the supply of money. The other created demand for it. Those aren't the same thing.
Where I think we differ is on what gave the dollar its global dominance after we left gold.
The petrodollar wasn't about storing barrels of oil in a vault to "back" every dollar. It was about creating worldwide demand for dollars because nations needed dollars to buy the one commodity every modern economy depended on: oil.
Gold is a store of value. Oil was a store of demand. If civilization collapsed tomorrow, I'd take land, water, food, and skills over a pile of gold every day of the week. But we aren't talking about surviving in the woods. We're talking about what made the U.S. dollar the world's reserve currency for the last 50 years.
One limits the supply of money. The other created demand for it. Those aren't the same thing.
I think we're actually making the same point. In a societal collapse, nobody is trading their last loaf of bread for a gold coin. Utility always wins. Food, water, shelter, medicine, fuel, and skills become the currency because they keep you alive.
My point wasn't that gold has no value. It was that its value is largely assigned by society. If society disappears, so does much of that premium.
That's why I used the water-versus-diamonds analogy. We tend to price scarcity over necessity until necessity is all that's left. Maybe that's the lesson. The things we value most in stable times aren't always the things that matter most when it counts.
My point wasn't that gold has no value. It was that its value is largely assigned by society. If society disappears, so does much of that premium.
That's why I used the water-versus-diamonds analogy. We tend to price scarcity over necessity until necessity is all that's left. Maybe that's the lesson. The things we value most in stable times aren't always the things that matter most when it counts.
Funny how every bill in your wallet says, "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private."
It doesn't say it's backed by gold.
It doesn't say it's backed by silver.
It doesn't say it's backed by oil.
It simply says it's legal tender. Maybe that's the biggest clue of all. The value of money has always depended less on what it's made of and more on what people believe they'll be able to exchange it for tomorrowā¦
The commodity changes. The system changes. The belief is the constant.
It doesn't say it's backed by gold.
It doesn't say it's backed by silver.
It doesn't say it's backed by oil.
It simply says it's legal tender. Maybe that's the biggest clue of all. The value of money has always depended less on what it's made of and more on what people believe they'll be able to exchange it for tomorrowā¦
The commodity changes. The system changes. The belief is the constant.
Widow maker 223
Well-known member
Gold and silver are consumables. Missiles contain anywhere from 10 to 15oz of silver. We recently wasted a bunch.
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And that's funny now, given how many places, even .gov locations, refuse to accept cash and will only honor the chip under the skin in your hand, er I mean the slip of plastic from your bank.
Exactly. We went from gold... to paper... to plastic... and now to invisible digits on a server somewhere. Money is becoming less about what you hold and more about what a computer says you own.
Here's another thought: there isn't enough gold in existence to back Elon Musk's wealth today. There is enough oil, though... lol.
Whether you view it through economics or biblical prophecy, the idea of a cashless society is starting to move beyond something people dismissed with tinfoil-hat jokes and into something we're actually watching unfold...
For all intents and purposes, I already make purchases by pushing buttons on a keyboard. My passkey fills in my password automatically, and the transaction is done in seconds.
Convenience... or compliance? At what point did I stop using money and start trusting a number on a screen?
Maybe I already accepted the number without ever questioning it.?..
Convenience... or compliance? At what point did I stop using money and start trusting a number on a screen?
Maybe I already accepted the number without ever questioning it.?..
It's like our Iran situation.
We're still building bigger malls, while they're figuring out how to sell on Amazon.
Sometimes the disruption isn't a bigger competitor... it's a completely different business model...
We're still building bigger malls, while they're figuring out how to sell on Amazon.
Sometimes the disruption isn't a bigger competitor... it's a completely different business model...
That and a handshake.
A handshake, eye contact, and someone's word used to mean something. Now we have instant transactions with people we've never met, through systems we don't control...
This is why I said invest in consciousness.
356
Active member
I was watching Walter Cronkite when I was eight mentioning that children should have social security numbers, and that this could be done at the post office. The next day I rode to the post office, applied for my Social Security number, and changed my name from what was on my birth certificate to something I liked better. No ID, just filling out a form in a way only a third grader could imagine. That name change came back to haunt me in 2017 when we were applying for a USDA program on our farm. No one could believe an eight year old could ride his bike to the post office and get a social security number, but yes, it happened, and I did it back in 1969.