The Spirit of the .204

Originally Posted By: braddsnmedic and EDP, I know what you are saying about the 35 or 39 grainer for the .204, but my only issue with that is that you are getting away from the initial intended design of the .204. If you are going to load 39 grainers, you are losing the velocity that makes the .204 so awesome. I believe that in the 3,600-3900fps range, the .204 is not a .204 anymore. The first time I shot a melon with my .204 (velocity circa 4,100 fps) I fell in love! I realize that shooting rifles is not all about velocity, especially out at 1,000 yards.. but shooting the .204 is ALL about velocity. And even when shooting the 32 grainer, at 4,150-4,200 fps, you might be very surprised at what it does to a coyote at 300yds. It is magical! =)

Brad,
I have a 20 Practical, which has very similar ballistics to the .204. I use the 39gr BK bullet because it is ballistically better (for me). I ran the ballistic charts on 32gr vs 39gr and the 39 is superior. The 32gr has a slight drop advantage (which might not even be seen in the field), so that is pretty much a tie. But in wind drift and energy the 39gr shows its superiority, the nod goes to the 39gr. You should check out the heavier bullets and you will be pleasantly surprised. See below:

39 BK @3830 FPS (Chrono 15 feet away)
20Practical.jpg



32gr BK at 4150 FPS (Chrono 15 feet away)
204.jpg
 
Kyotekiller25... You are still missing the point, which is ok. The point of this post, if you go back to the beginning, is that the .204 in my OPINION will do everything better than the .223. I was never the person who brought the 22-250 (or any other caliber for that matter) into this discussion. However since people are bringing the 22-250, 220 swift, etc. into the coversation, I participated and still tried to make my case for the .204. Now, I realize that almost anything is possible if a person is willing to really push the envelope, and try a million combinations of bullet/powder/barrel length, etc. So to wrap this up in a nutshell, in my OPINION and in my friends opinion who has been building custom rifles and reloading all of his life (he is 60 yrs old), we believe that #1) The .204 with just minor tweaking and still staying under max pressure will easily do everything better than the .223, no contest. #2) At high velocities like 4,100-4,400, this is where the .204 is comfortable... i.e., you don't have to load hot and "push it" to achieve these velocities, therefore yielding longer barrel/throat life and more reloads with your brass. #3) With everything equal.. (i.e. factory load to factory load, or hand load to hand load, the .204 is the flattest shooting round there is. Now, Kyotekiller25, since you seem to want to keep comparing the .204 to the 22-250 (which is not what I intended to do), I will humor you. My friend and I (and Greg Tannel, might as well throw him in) believe that we can load a 39gr bullet for the .204, achieve a velocity of circa 4,200fps, still be under max pressure, and easily compete with the 22-250 as far as ballistics and killing coyotes, at any range that the 22-250 is capable of. I will post the charts that show this as soon as I have them done. If we can dial this particular combination in to group well, then I will basically have a 22-250 that will shoot flatter, faster (generally speaking), hold energy longer (better BC by default), and will last much longer than a 22-250. And about your comment about my barrel not lasting 2000 rds?? My friend that builds my rifles has 6 .204's, and 4 of those 6 have shot 3,000 rds plus and are as accurate as they were when they were new. A 22-250 would not have that kind of endurance, would burn out the barrel before that imho.
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Keep em coming!
 
Recko555 you have read my mind... my friend and I have been working on a 39gr recipe for some time now! Its going to be fun! Personally, so far I have not had any yotes run off with the 32gr sierra, BUT with the 39 at circa 4100-4200fps, I believe quite a bit of range could be gained.. and this is still all done under max pressure!
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We are working hard at the "drawing board" as we speak on this!
 
I don't understand why so many people stick to the Vmax's and the Blitzkings in the .204, they are made for praire dogs.

Berger 35 grainers work very well, but Berger also makes a 40 grain .204 that is a boat tail with a higher BC. The Bergers seem to be sturdier bullets as well as the Nosler BT 40 grainers. braddsn, if you want a light bullet, maybe you should try the 30 grain Berger.

braddsn, what length barrel is your .204? I have a Rem 700 LVSF with a 22" barrel and best I could get out of a 35 grain Berger was 3850 fps but that was a really hot load, I had to beat the bolt open. I backed down to the 3775-3800 fps range.
 
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Originally Posted By: braddsnKyotekiller25...The point of this post, if you go back to the beginning, is that the .204 in my OPINION will do everything better than the .223. I was never the person who brought the 22-250 (orMy friend and I (and Greg Tannel, might as well throw him in) believe that we can load a 39gr bullet for the .204, achieve a velocity of circa 4,200fps, still be under max pressure, and easily compete with the 22-250 as far as ballistics and killing coyotes, at any range that the 22-250 is capable of. I will post the charts that show this as soon as I have them done.

I haven't read this whole thread, but the 204 will NOT do EVERYTHING better than a 223. The 204 is a warp nine pea-shooter intended for use on prarie dogs, crows, squirrels and such. Coyote are the biggest thing I would hunt with a 204, and only with a heavier bullet.

223s and 22-250s, on the other hand, are much more versatile and will take deer and pronghorn with authority.

Compare a .224 75gr A-max at 3300fps to your 39gr .204 @ 4200 and then you'll see the difference in terms of energy.

At 500yds, the 75gr bullet still has as much energy as the 39gr has at 200yds. At 1000yds the 75gr bullet has as much energy as the 39gr bullet has at 500yds. At 1000yds the 75gr has 4X as much energy as the 39gr. BIG difference in killing power here.

At 1000yds wind drift at 10mph is 118" for the .204, and only 63" for the .224. Drop is 221" for the .224, and 230" for .204.

The 204 is a nice little bullet/cartridge, but it's just that, little..........
 
To say that the 204 can "easily compete at killing coyotes at any range the 22-250 is capable of" is a ridiculous statement at best..........
 
Yep, just buy a 243 and be done with it, best factory varmint cartridge out there IMO. 55s at 4K for you "speed kills" group or laser flat trajectory, 70s at 3600 for the coyotes out to 600 or so, or take your 105 amax at 3000fps and that'll get you out to 1K with relative ease on coyotes and targets, and double up as a 500-600 yard deer rifle. Tought to beat IMO. Pretty simple and boring yes, but very effective due to there BCs, and being able to shoot a heavier bullet with high BC still at a decently high MV.
 
Well I certainly don't want this thread to become an argument, and it usually starts to become one when people start calling each other's statemes "rediculous" and such. I won't let my side of it become an argument, because to me this is all good fun, and a learning experience at minimum. None of my statements were rediculous, maybe some disagree with them, but let's face it, most of the stuff we all talk about on here can never be proven to each other because we will probably never go out shooting together. 2muchgun, unless you have a LOT of experience with BOTH the .204 WITH a 39gr bullet at 4,200fps, AND a 22-250, and have done hours of comparisons, real life shooting, ballistics charts, etc, then you can't logically say that my statement is rediculous. I don't know if you know who Greg Tannel is (of Gre'Tan rifles), but he is one of the top gunsmiths/shooters in North America, and he has many articles (published by the way) that state that the 20 calibers are capable of everything the 22-250 is. Scroll down this page and see who Greg is, and if you still have doubt, dig in to some of his articles, and you will quickly stand corrected.. you don't have to believe me, for I am no professional. This guy has 1000 times the knowledge that you and I do put together, it is his life, and he begs to differ with you. But regardless, yet AGAIN, my post was meant to compare the .204 to the .223, and I am sure that given the proper load depending on application, the .204 will beat the .223 every time.

Anyways here is who Greg Tannel is..

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsmiths.html

I am not taking anything away from the 22-250 either, I just think the 20 cals are underestimated. And yes, I agree, they are a small bullet and are meant mainly for fox, prarie dogs, etc.. but I have had excellent luck on coyotes with it. Cheers!
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I am very aware of who Greg Tannel is, don't need to read your article.

The 204 is a niche cartridge, meant for little critters. It isn't capable of such things as the more vesatile .224s. which will handle little things just as well as the 204, but also handle bigger critters that the 204 won't. That isn't a guess, and I didn't arrive at that concusion by reading the opinions of others........
 
Did you read any of the data I posted? How could you consider the 204 "just as capable at any range" if the 22-250 has twice as much energy at 500yds and 4x as much at 1000?

You have a funny way of thinking......
 
Just for clarity, I am not comparing the .204 to the 22.250. At 300 yards or under the .204 is capable of doing what .223 is capable of doing with lighter bullets on coyotes and smaller animals. I also have a .223 and with 55 grain bullets I feel it is more gun than the .204. Beyond the 300 yard mark I would grab the 22-250, 22-250AI, or the 243 if I wanted to sledgehammer a yote.

I am just saying that the sturdier bullets make more sense to me in the .204. I don't shoot the Vmax's or Blitzkings in my .204 or my .223. I shoot the Berger 35's in the .204 and am currently working on loads for the .223 with Sierra Gamekings both 55gr HPBT and 55gr SBT.

Most all of my shooting is 100 yards or under so I get by with the .204 or the .17 Remington just fine. If I lived out west or was shooting 300 plus yards on a regular basis I would pick the 22-250AI.
 
I always enjoy reading everyone posts, as you guys are much much better informed about balistics, etc etc. So I thank you guys for you sharing your knowledge and experiance
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I don't know, however, why topics have to turn into arguments, and turn personal and ruin a thread.

Either way good info here. I personally like all the above calibers LOL. But I really like the 204 & 22-250. Lots of guys post succesful pics of coyotes taken with 204's so I think its perfectly adiquate for yotes on down, but like any caliber bullet selection is key.

I also don't shoot 5,6,7,8 hundred yards except at PD's so I have no clue about effectiveness of any of them at that range.

Fin
 
The 204 shoots just as flat as the 22-250 out to 1000yds. But, it is much more susceptible to wind drift and carries a lot less energy. It just doesn't hit as hard. It can't.

Comparing the 39gr Blitzking to a 75gr A-max is simply not a fair comparison. The longer/heavier bullet with the higher BC will win out every time. Physics is physics.

Velocity is a fleeting thing, but BC is forever.

The 22-250 can do everything the 204 can do, and then some.......
 
Brad,
I have pushed the 39gr BKs over 4000 fps during load development. I had FLAT primers and some blew out. The groups were horrible. I diminished the speed until accuracy was 1/2 MOA.
 
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