The Zero that works on all AR-15's
- Thread starter Kiloxj
- Start date
I hunt coyotes with the 300 yard, not ELK
Foolish to hunt with an 300 yard zero, I agree my .308 is a 100 yard and I use a mil-dot.
The first target is with the 37 zero, POI center, no windage correction
The second target is the second group from 400 after a 3 shot group to dope at 400
Foolish to hunt with an 300 yard zero, I agree my .308 is a 100 yard and I use a mil-dot.
The first target is with the 37 zero, POI center, no windage correction
The second target is the second group from 400 after a 3 shot group to dope at 400
This is not a technical post. . . SSGT. I know how ballistics work and I am not saying that anything i post is always the way it is. .223 out of a 24 1/8 w/G4 drag the first Point of zero is 25 w/100 zero
"rise" is not the term, but this post was for my experience with the AR-15 Platform from Parris Island, S.C. in 2001 through OIF II-II and finally now that I can do it for fun.
SGT. USMC
easNOV 4, 2006
"rise" is not the term, but this post was for my experience with the AR-15 Platform from Parris Island, S.C. in 2001 through OIF II-II and finally now that I can do it for fun.
SGT. USMC
easNOV 4, 2006
Tim Neitzke
New member
Originally Posted By: Kiloxj A .223 always will drop then rise out of the barrel as long as your LOS target is at 90 degrees.
Really ? !!
I don't believe it works that way,but if it works for you have at it.....
Really ? !!
I don't believe it works that way,but if it works for you have at it.....
For all that read this post, please do not let the anything be confusing. Its simple, and it works. Ballistic Charts can not be computed on an app, and should never be the same because it is not possible. If you keep up with the range cards every time on each shot, then you can make the call at any given moment, elevation, temp, etc.
I didnt want to get into spindrift that I had to comp for at 800 yrds with factory ammo because the round is notintended to even be effective. 300 point blank 500 area with the FN 1/7 that I used.
I didnt want to get into spindrift that I had to comp for at 800 yrds with factory ammo because the round is notintended to even be effective. 300 point blank 500 area with the FN 1/7 that I used.
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeOriginally Posted By: Kiloxj A .223 always will drop then rise out of the barrel as long as your LOS target is at 90 degrees.
Really ? !!
I don't believe it works that way,but if it works for you have at it.....
I think the point is:
1. As the bullet leaves the muzzle it is an inch or two below the line of sight/aim and is on an upward trajectory.
2. At some point it will cross that datum line on the way to the apex of its flight and then will drop back down through it at some range determined by the laws of physics.
3. The closer to the muzzle the first crossing point the sharper the upward angle of the flight path and initially at least, the farther out the second crossing point.
If a particular cartridge crosses the datum line at 50 and 200 (my 5.56s do) it makes sense that a closer 37 yard zero could well also be a 300 yard zero.
If I want to zero at 200 but only have a 50 yard range knowing that a 50 yard zero will get me there is useful. Likewise, if I want a 300yard zero, knowing that a 37 yard zero will give me that might come in handy as well.
Jim
Really ? !!
I don't believe it works that way,but if it works for you have at it.....
I think the point is:
1. As the bullet leaves the muzzle it is an inch or two below the line of sight/aim and is on an upward trajectory.
2. At some point it will cross that datum line on the way to the apex of its flight and then will drop back down through it at some range determined by the laws of physics.
3. The closer to the muzzle the first crossing point the sharper the upward angle of the flight path and initially at least, the farther out the second crossing point.
If a particular cartridge crosses the datum line at 50 and 200 (my 5.56s do) it makes sense that a closer 37 yard zero could well also be a 300 yard zero.
If I want to zero at 200 but only have a 50 yard range knowing that a 50 yard zero will get me there is useful. Likewise, if I want a 300yard zero, knowing that a 37 yard zero will give me that might come in handy as well.
Jim
Yote Yoda USMC
New member
Good stuff. Keep it coming.
Tim Neitzke
New member
Jim,
I know what he was trying to say,but the a bullet never rises it's always falling. That's my point.
As for only shooting 25 -50 yards and never checking farther that's just plain wrong. Does it happen ? It sure does. Infact ,I've got plenty of @&*#*'s around here that believe bore sighted rifles are plenty good for hunting !
I used to run 2 - 2.5" @ 100 on my varmint rigs. Plenty easy to miss a chuck when it's out flat on all 4's feeding @ 80-150ish yards. A 100/150 yard zero with mills or turrets is way better in my book.
I know what he was trying to say,but the a bullet never rises it's always falling. That's my point.
As for only shooting 25 -50 yards and never checking farther that's just plain wrong. Does it happen ? It sure does. Infact ,I've got plenty of @&*#*'s around here that believe bore sighted rifles are plenty good for hunting !
I used to run 2 - 2.5" @ 100 on my varmint rigs. Plenty easy to miss a chuck when it's out flat on all 4's feeding @ 80-150ish yards. A 100/150 yard zero with mills or turrets is way better in my book.
venatic
Well-known member
I think the point is a zero of 300 yards will put your bullet so high at the apex above your line of sight as to be detrimental for hunting small game thus the reason 99% of predator hunters do NOT use a 300yd zero with a .223 cartridge.
Now if I were shooting a .243 AR with a 55gr bullets moving at 4100fps then that might be a reasonable distance to sight-in.
Now if I were shooting a .243 AR with a 55gr bullets moving at 4100fps then that might be a reasonable distance to sight-in.
The physics make us all agree that bullets can't possibly rise.
For the newb who has little ballistics knowledge just know that your scope line of sight and your barrel are NOT parallel. In relation to your line of sight your barrel is pointed slightly upward allowing your bullet cross your line of sight twice in it's travel down range.
For the newb who has little ballistics knowledge just know that your scope line of sight and your barrel are NOT parallel. In relation to your line of sight your barrel is pointed slightly upward allowing your bullet cross your line of sight twice in it's travel down range.
Venatic,
No argument with you or Tim. My impression was the poster did not mean to imply the bullet was defying the law of gravity. Rather, I assumed he was referring to the upward leg of the bullet's trajectory.
As to a choice of zero distance my take is it depends on what you're shooting with and, to a lesser extent, what you're shooting at. I think that's consistent with what both of you said. Having said that, I don't own anything or shoot at anything that would lead me to zero at 300.
No argument with you or Tim. My impression was the poster did not mean to imply the bullet was defying the law of gravity. Rather, I assumed he was referring to the upward leg of the bullet's trajectory.
As to a choice of zero distance my take is it depends on what you're shooting with and, to a lesser extent, what you're shooting at. I think that's consistent with what both of you said. Having said that, I don't own anything or shoot at anything that would lead me to zero at 300.
Tim Neitzke
New member
No worries here KlrDrvr .....
venatic
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: KlrDrvrVenatic,
No argument with you or Tim. My impression was the poster did not mean to imply the bullet was defying the law of gravity. Rather, I assumed he was referring to the upward leg of the bullet's trajectory.
As to a choice of zero distance my take is it depends on what you're shooting with and, to a lesser extent, what you're shooting at. I think that's consistent with what both of you said. Having said that, I don't own anything or shoot at anything that would lead me to zero at 300.
No problem here either.... Maybe I am misunderstanding what the OP is really getting at.
The title suggests that the best distance to sight-in an AR is 37 yards where it crosses line of sight first then dropping back down to cross again at 300 yards. I guess that would be fine if you shoot all your coyotes at 37 yards OR out past 250 yards. Being over 4 inches high at 150 yards will be a little tricky though.
No argument with you or Tim. My impression was the poster did not mean to imply the bullet was defying the law of gravity. Rather, I assumed he was referring to the upward leg of the bullet's trajectory.
As to a choice of zero distance my take is it depends on what you're shooting with and, to a lesser extent, what you're shooting at. I think that's consistent with what both of you said. Having said that, I don't own anything or shoot at anything that would lead me to zero at 300.
No problem here either.... Maybe I am misunderstanding what the OP is really getting at.
doggin coyotes
Well-known member
Might be a few coyotes with furrows through their guard hairs.
coleridge
Active member
I think this post was all wrong from the start... The #'s looked all wrong but since ballistic programs are never correct; I gave it a try.
Had some time over the weekend & did some shooting. I will admit my test was not with a .223 so maybee that tosses the "magic" out the window... However, I did shoot this with my 6x45Detech running a 20" barreled with a 75gr Vmax that has a large sample chronod @ average of 2817 fps. I see no reason a 16" or like 223 would have a path much different than this run (should be within ~1"+/-throughout the path to 300 yards).
Changing from my 200 yard zero, it only took me 2 clicks (from my Viper PST) to make a dead hold 37yard zero (that told the story before ever firing another shot). After centering at 37 yards I went back to 200 yards, I was just high (hitting just above the top of a 1" dot, with 1 bullet actually hitting the dot). Then I was about 7" low (didn't have a tape measure but this is a good estimate) at 300 yards.
So yes, everyone can sight a gun in at 37 yards & be within 4MOA to 300 yards. However, you are toward the BOTTOM of the 4MOA at 300 yards not in the center. It gives pretty much a 200 yard zero as someone suggested earlier in the post.
Although really doing the same thing, I would much preffer to sight my gun in at 200 yards rather than sight it in at 37 yards!!!!
Had some time over the weekend & did some shooting. I will admit my test was not with a .223 so maybee that tosses the "magic" out the window... However, I did shoot this with my 6x45Detech running a 20" barreled with a 75gr Vmax that has a large sample chronod @ average of 2817 fps. I see no reason a 16" or like 223 would have a path much different than this run (should be within ~1"+/-throughout the path to 300 yards).
Changing from my 200 yard zero, it only took me 2 clicks (from my Viper PST) to make a dead hold 37yard zero (that told the story before ever firing another shot). After centering at 37 yards I went back to 200 yards, I was just high (hitting just above the top of a 1" dot, with 1 bullet actually hitting the dot). Then I was about 7" low (didn't have a tape measure but this is a good estimate) at 300 yards.
So yes, everyone can sight a gun in at 37 yards & be within 4MOA to 300 yards. However, you are toward the BOTTOM of the 4MOA at 300 yards not in the center. It gives pretty much a 200 yard zero as someone suggested earlier in the post.
Although really doing the same thing, I would much preffer to sight my gun in at 200 yards rather than sight it in at 37 yards!!!!
doggin coyotes
Well-known member
Quote: I would much preffer to sight my gun in at 200 yards rather than sight it in at 37 yards!!!!
Uh huh. But even I can shoot some bug holes, one holers, clover leafs and pin holes at 37 yards! *Maybe*
Uh huh. But even I can shoot some bug holes, one holers, clover leafs and pin holes at 37 yards! *Maybe*
