Thermal or Night Vision?

Y

yzsuperlee

New member
I have been thinking about getting into the thermal or night vision scene and am looking for input from people who have experiences with both. If you could only choose one which would it be? Why? I am interested mostly in scanning and detection of incoming coyotes. Which would work best scanning fields from a vehicle moving 35mph? I have read a lot about both and am looking for some input. Any pics of your setups would be great too. Thanks.
 
Tuesday I received my Flir Scout PS32. Played with it 3 nights and got a pretty good feel for it lookin at cows and horses. A horse standing up was pretty clear at 100 yards. Hard to pick out a cow laying still 100 yards away. Think it would be easier to see if it were moving. Tonite I received my Night optics D760 with hand select tube and wow I was blown away by the clarity and quality. I also mounted an IRK2 illuminator on it. Sitting still and scanning with the flir will be much easier than trying to scan through the D760 mounted on the rifle but right now I wish I had done something different than the Flir PS32. May change my mind when I get some practical experience on a call but after viewing thru the D760 I was blown away by the view thru the scope. I have played with thermal units on the fire department and of course they were the best money could buy and they had my hopes up. With the $15000 Fire dept. units you could see a rabbit sitting still 5 hundred yards away! I'm not sure about the moving 35 mph scene but pretty sure my Flir would perform pretty poorly. Sitting still and scanning with the flir you have to scan slowly and smoothly cause the pic has a hard time keeping up if you move to fast. It kind of jerks the view. If it was a smooth 35 mph the D760 would probably do alright. I think the D760 will pick out a yote at 5-6 hundred yards and the field of view is amazing. Hope this helped and hopefully some with more experience will chime in.
 
Interested to hear some more replies. I have been thinking of doing the same. Seems like if you have a hard time seeing a 500lb cow at 100yds its gonna be real tough to catch a fox or coyote sliding down the edge of timber. I have watched a some videos on the PS32 and 24. The videos were pretty clear from what I seen. But this makes me wonder.
 
If we had a budget you are planning on spending, we could help you maximize your available choices in the thermal and NV selections. A hand held thermal devise should be used for detection and your NV devise should be used for the identification. If you scroll through 'kudos tactical night vision' u'll find about every NV/thermal set up out there. Igor saying he wishes he "would have done something different than the Flir ps32", he hasnt used it enough. A hand held thermal devise is probably THE BEST ACCESSORY to have. Yea he's thinking it a pain in the butt holding it and scanning. Are you gonna be able to see exactly there's a cow laying in a field prolly not, but it's for detection. Your gonna be able to see a heat signature, then you'll wanna use your NV devise to identify what's in the field, o' yea it's a cow laying down. A thermal devise is a must have. Now that said, what range are you planning on shooting. I mostly hunt suburb and rural areas, so I try to keep my shots around 200 yards and under just because of the small fields and parcels I hunt, so I chose a helmet mounted pvs14 and a IR laser and a hand held thermal cause there's times when ole Mr. Wiley is hiding in a fence row or a pocket of brush and you won't see him with your NV, but he's surely giving off a nice and hot heat signature to let you know something's lurking there. Now if I was out west with wide open spaces, I prolly would've went with a hand held thermal and some type of dedicated NV scope to shoot out to 400+ yards. So plan a budget, and what type of area are you going to hunt should help you pick what type of devises you should buy. Good luck!
 
I'm sitting on the same fence.With the price of these being what it is I want to make the best choice.My question is which should I get first. I think I'm leaning towards a gen 3 scope to start and maybe in the future my company will need a thermal device for doing heat loss estimates.
 
Hope im not hi-jacking the thread. Do people use thermal for detection and lights for shooting? Is that a general practice? Coughing up $3k for a thermal is hard enough. Then to add another $3-4K for a NV scope is knida out of my practical price range. Do you figure you have to have Gen 3 NV. Most of my shots are around 150 yds or less with lights.
 
A PS-32 is for scanning and detection, a D-760 is of ID and targeting.

If you hunt with the D-760 you will be missing 1000% of the critters in range of the D-760 simply because you did not detect them.

Learn how to use the PS-32 as it will increase your kills with the D-760 by 10X.

Detect - ID - Target.

BTW, driving around in a vehicle at 35mph using a PS-32 to detect something is not the way to use it either.
 
Originally Posted By: jamesdI'm sitting on the same fence.With the price of these being what it is I want to make the best choice.My question is which should I get first. I think I'm leaning towards a gen 3 scope to start and maybe in the future my company will need a thermal device for doing heat loss estimates. A scope is prolly the last thing u want to purchase...(literally the last thing of your purchases) Hold your gun up and look threw it constantly for bout an hr trying to see something running to the call. It can be done but it's a pain in the a$$. I say get a helmet mounted pvs14 and an IR laser. There's other options like a ps 32 and a m835 gen 3 scope. But you need something to scan the terrain with a pvs14 or a handheld thermal.
 
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Originally Posted By: Corn FedHope im not hi-jacking the thread. Do people use thermal for detection and lights for shooting? Is that a general practice? Coughing up $3k for a thermal is hard enough. Then to add another $3-4K for a NV scope is knida out of my practical price range. Do you figure you have to have Gen 3 NV. Most of my shots are around 150 yds or less with lights. This is a pretty good idea. The idea of night hunting is goin undetected. My brother went hunting with me 1 night and said he's not bringing a gun anymore, it's gonna be a baseball bat or a golf club....they get real close!
 
Is it possible for a hunter wearing glasses to effectively use the PS-32, or does it constantly create smudges on the glasses which obscure clean vision?
 
for what it's worth, I just went thru this same situation. My path was to buy a M845 gen 3 from TNVC (2,550.00)and also buy the IR from them (249.00). I recently purchased a handheld thermal(3,400.00) unit from night vision guys and the reason I bought it was the PS24/32 have internal batteries... the atn works off a cr123 battery and last about 2hrs. I can scan fields quickly for hogs and then go to the M845 as said for ID and shooting. The rig I have is just to heavy to hold up and scan with. I know a lot of folks say if it has ATN on it run away....but I am pleased with the results I get and have not, at this point had a problem with it. Budget is the biggest hindrance with all this night vision. I also wear prescription lens and I too have had no problems with smudges...with that said it is a little different having to push the eye cup in with your glasses...but it's doable
 
Budget and what terrain are you gonna hunt exactly said larryb. Make good decisions and make practical sound purchases. This stuffs not cheap. So plan on spending your money wisely!
 
Originally Posted By: SkyPupA PS-32 is for scanning and detection, a D-760 is of ID and targeting.

If you hunt with the D-760 you will be missing 1000% of the critters in range of the D-760 simply because you did not detect them.

Learn how to use the PS-32 as it will increase your kills with the D-760 by 10X.

Detect - ID - Target.

BTW, driving around in a vehicle at 35mph using a PS-32 to detect something is not the way to use it either.

This could not be more accurate and Pup has a lot of field experience with this equipment. Get a thermal unit FIRST for DETECTION and your kill rate will go up even if you shoot with a kill light. Your next purchase should be a NV scope for coyotes, foxes, or cats. Thermal scope for hogs if that's in your budget.

I think that scanning with a NV scope and emitter is worse than just using lights. You are moving around the emitter which is emanating a red glow to let the animal know your location and without a light shining in his eyes he can now see all the movement it takes to swing your whole rig around when scanning.

 
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Thank you all for the great responses. I hunt mostly wide open spaces where shots can be anywhere from 0-300+ yards. My budget is in the $3,000-$4,000 range and as Loggers Inn mentioned above I just want to make sure I spend my money wisely. I like the idea of thermal to scan & detect and using a kill light to ID & shoot. When looking at thermal units, is the PS32 worth the extra $1,000 over the PS24? Is the LS32 worth the extra $1,000 over the PS32? In open country, how far can I expect to detect a coyote with the PS/LS thermals?
 
I hunted for a long time scanning with a ps32 and a xlr250 on the gun and did quite well on coyotes and cats, before I went to a d760, now run a LS64 and d760 and Aquila 6x

as stated above locate with thermal and ID and shoot with NV unless your just after hogs them a thermal scope would be the ticket.

most of my stands are off a tripod so scanning on the gun is not a problem

scanning at 20MPH or less is ok looking over wide open pastures, anything up-close will make you seasick
 
Currently I see many "trends" with thermal and more hitting the market for lower pricing. Fancy videos downrange with thermal hunters and dealers debating technically this and that which thermal can do best for their hog hunting a .5x vs. 1x vs. this resolution vs. this FOV is all great for hunting bragging rights and placing feathers in their hats of who is the most internet forum saavy on these devices. I sit and watch all the debate and vids with lot's of hog meat piling up which is great for those activities.

While most know TNVC's core is still LE and Mil training, but it still stands true for the hunting crowd as well. The simple answer to this debate of NV vs. thermal? Identification is still KING and always will be.

In the hunting world, shooting a small calf instead of that thermal viewed hog would be hard on ones wallet. In the human world without ID (like the most recent hunting accident, it was pure tragedy). Range and performance of both NV and thermal technologies will also play an important role down range on what you detect and ID. This is also a very critical component.

For the LE person, ID is always king especially in a shoot/no shoot scenario. Things can get collectively very busy on a perimeter dark house watching your team make entry and people start to come out the back of the house. Once again ID is king and a white light fight may be in order but your environment and safety will dictate that. What if that fight on the back of the house stays dark? Once again, having true ID has to be the #1 priority and every thermal device under 25K out there available I've worked with for LE folks will not suffice for this critical ID of shoot/no shoot for human targets. If it ain't good for true ID'ing a calf or a hog at 75 yards or even questionable, almost good enough ID, it's NEVER good enough. Some folks may say, "well Vic the guys running out the back I observed with my Vanadium Oxide, Uncooled Microbolometer, 640 x 480, .17 micron, 1 million hertz clip on thermal was not in any armor, vest, helmet etc. and was running with a gun." What the good guy shooter did NOT TRULY SEE in his internet lore 1 million hertz thermal was that undercover DEA agent with long hair, badge exposed, under armor and that large glint POLICE placard on his jacket. Understand, it's what you the shooter cannot see is the devil in disguise.

Training is obviously HUGE in all scenarios. Working with both NV and thermal and understanding what you can and cannot truly see is also paramount at different ranges and environments. This goes true for hunters as well. Ask yourself, when you first got your new NV or thermal device. Did you all look at many different critters through that device at different ranges and environments to see what you can REALLY see before you went on an actual hunt and pressed the trigger? Did you REALLY do this? (Please ask yourself this).

For the LE folks again and also the home defender, ID obviously is also just as critically important in the court room when Mr. defense attorney wants to know what did his client look like and posts pictures he took of his client through his own crude thermal or NV device. Believe me I've seen all the tactics they use as well. I've been on that exact hot seat when they've asked me, "can you ID my client in these pictures"? I then see 5 or 6 pictures of different peoples faces on an overhead projector obviously taken with a crude thermal device. This actual scenario from a search, seizure drug buy arrest of a perp witnessed on a surveillance detail and apprehended hiding in a open field with lots of brush. Both NV and thermal were used in the apprehension.

In closing, while I see the trend of thermal devices gaining more momentum with lesser pricing with a bit more resolution for hunting bragging rights. ID is still king out there when you're about to press the trigger whether he/she is LE or hunter. Most all of us heard about the recent night hunting accident based on some sort of "illuminator" used. I will not Monday night QB that incident because I do not know all the facts of the whole incident. One thing is unfortunately true... TRUE identification of the target was not obtained and a tragedy occurred.

Stay safe out there!

Vic Di Cosola
 
I can see deer plain as day 300-400 yrds with my ps32. Now can I tell you they are deer, no but I can tell you there is a heat signature out there 300-400 yrds, then I use my pvs14 to ID, if I still can't ID, then I slip on my 3x magnifier. U'll be able to see coon running up and down trees, it really amazing technology. I can't speak for the guys using the LS series, but the ps32 is pretty dang good, not the best, but pretty good accessory for me.
 
Detect -> POSITIVE ID -> Target.

NO POSIITIVE ID = NO TARGET

And DO NOT go out hunting blasting everything you pick up at night, that is NOT night hunting, it is mayhem and NOT SAFE.

If you do not have safety first, you do not have anything, nothing at all but major trouble and a good cry.

Have fun and be safe to come home to tell about it...
 
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