Too many greyhounds

Here in Pennsylvania, in my general area, we have 3 major hound runners that I know of. Last year I ended up with a very large group of them trespassing on my property. Apparently enough word got around and the main gentleman who owned the hounds started booting guys out who would trespass or park in farmer's fields, etc. Since then I believe their group has gotten much smaller. Taking that step also took the bitter taste from my mouth after the last experience.

Hounds here work off of tracks, not sight, but they're mostly running walkers and not greyhounds. One guy I know hunts the river hills...a lot. He puts miles upon miles on his boots trying to kill one coyote. He's told me stories of running a single coyote all day long, and not getting it. I can respect that. The more effort on the hunter's end, the more it seems like hunting than just killing.

But, Pennsylvania is a much different landscape than Oklahoma.

I've been inviting a few times to run coyotes with some of these guys and turn them down each time. I'm sure it's fun, and I'm sure it's a rush, but nothing beats those red eyes at night coming to your hand call. Just my .02 cents, though.
 
Next they will want to get rid of any hunting with dogs. People that don't hunt with dogs just don't get it. It is not just about getting a coyote or pheasant or rabbit, it is about being out there with your dogs and watching them do what they are bred to do.
 
He said he’s not trying to start an argument but then he bashes the hound hunters again and ridicules there way of hunting.
Sounds to me that’s all he wants to do is divide everyone and argue.
Have fun out there and good luck hunting however you want fellows.
 
Originally Posted By: NeverStopTryingYour so far off the point its absurd. Does your pheasant dog kill the pheasant for you? And yes they kill a lot. Some ranchers hate coyotes because they kill livestock, others love them for killing gophers and prairie dogs. Since you've never witnessed it, YouTube it hero and then tell me about skill. But like I was saying moderation, just like you cant sluice ducks, bait bear all year or rifle hunt elk during the rut in most states because it depletes the resource. To me coyotes are a resource not a scourge to be eradicated. Guess you see it different or you like driving out of state to hunt.

It doesn't seem absurd to me when in every post you mention how many they kill or killing coyotes with greyhounds needs to be done in moderation and you are referring to thier success rates. The few landowners that I know that LOVE coyotes don't allow coyote hunting. I think you can admit if there success rate was 10% you could care less. As far as seasons and limits go, I think the DNR has a pretty good handle on that. Coyotes are very prolific and correct me if I am wrong, but don't some states pay to have coyotes killed? Even from helicopter? I like and respect coyotes too. They are fun and challenging to hunt, but shooting them is hardly the most important skill needed. It's only the last one needed to finish it. It takes a lot of time and effort to train dogs. The hound hunters around here also know a ton about coyote behavior and where they will be at certain times. I used to hunt racoon with hounds and yes if they made a catch and could quickly kill the coon, I let them. The bond between hunter and dog is a strong one. Dogs are very happy doing what they love.
Do you feel sorry for a deer that is run by coyotes until it is exhausted and then to have them start eating it from the rear end while still alive. Kill dogs don't do that.
 
I've read through this whole think and I don't think most people have a problem with hunting with hounds it self. The problem comes with the ethics/problems of the hound hunter. As a caller it is very easy for me to respect property lines, I have public lands maps, GPS chips with public lands info on it and I carry a computer in the truck to access county assessor record to determine property owner ship. A hound hunter has to follow the dogs or lose them and as they told me "Dogs can't read" so trespassing is almost mandatory if your running dogs in farm country. Bird hunters with dogs shouldn't have the problems with trespassing that the hound hunter has, when he gets to a fence line a pip on the whistle should hup or recall his dog.
 
Nope dont have a problem with hound hunters in general. Seen them used ethically in PA back in early 2000s. I'm bashing the rotten apples around here. And apparently rattler seen their kind too. I've used dogs for upland birds and ducks, and even had my dog sit near me when calling to distract coyotes. But never put her in danger of getting bit. Think what you like, do what you like, but my opinion of ethics is unchanged. Maybe I'm too over zealous, [beeep] I even have rules for hunting jack rabbits back home.
 
Originally Posted By: NeverStopTrying [beeep] I even have rules for hunting jack rabbits back home.

oh geeze. would love to hear the "rules" you have for hunting jackrabbits. should be some doozies.
 
Originally Posted By: NeverStopTryingYouTube it hero and then tell me about skill. But like I was saying moderation, just like you cant sluice ducks, bait bear all year or rifle hunt elk during the rut in most states because it depletes the resource. To me coyotes are a resource not a scourge to be eradicated. Guess you see it different or you like driving out of state to hunt.

You want to manage coyotes like deer, elk or game birds? I can assure you that hound, trapper and callers combined do not have the ability to deplete the “resource” of coyotes in South West Oklahoma. Aside from Fort Sill and Wichita mountain wildlife refuge the land is surveyed into 640 acre sections that are combined and or divided into individual private land owners. No single person has access to enough of the land to deplete the coyote population in that region. Trust me, if the landowner tells you; as you stated “greyhounds keep it pretty cleaned out” they are WRONG. An area will only hold so many coyotes based on terrain, food sources and water. Coyotes are territorial; an alpha pair of coyotes will defend their territory from other coyotes that are not accepted into their loose pack /social structure. Nature’s way of yearly pup dispersal safeguards the coyote “Resource” with transient coyotes looking for ground they can establish as their territory.

In others words; kill all you can, rest assure knowing others will move right back in. I guarantee you that your success rate is more affected by coyotes being called in and not getting them killed than by greyhounds depleting their numbers…
 
Lets just say some folks used sordid methods which greatly reduced numbers. My buddy and I found it more fun to have a few stories of great shots rather than one story of a ton of kills. So we only use rifle or pistols, and dont shoot unless they are beyond a certain distance for running or stationary. That way there are always some for next year. We dont see each other often so that's what matters, not numbers
 
Im confused, I thought I heard you wanting to vent frustration over reduced numbers. Now your content on shooting a running coyote at a distance with a pistol? That's cool, we all have our own styles of hunting and how we like to do our thing...
 
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. As I stated before I think hound hunters because of their success ratio,willingness to trespass (in some cases), proliferation here, and the current law banning coyote hunting at night has driven most coyotes into hiding during daylight hours regardless of calling or not. I'm only saying managing a method not the species would be better for all. Just like they do for other species. That's just my observation though, not a guarantee I can't prove.
 
Originally Posted By: NeverStopTryingSorry, maybe I wasn't clear. As I stated before I think hound hunters because of their success ratio,willingness to trespass (in some cases), proliferation here, and the current law banning coyote hunting at night has driven most coyotes into hiding during daylight hours regardless of calling or not. I'm only saying managing a method not the species would be better for all. Just like they do for other species. That's just my observation though, not a guarantee I can't prove.

In who's opinion? The game department has determined dogging coyotes to be a legal method. Accepted by thousands of other hunters. For YOU to impose your wishes onto other folks participating in a legal activity kinda puts you on the high horse doesn't it? Sort of reminds me of the struggles within the nation right now between liberals and conservatives.

 
Originally Posted By: GCOriginally Posted By: NeverStopTryingSorry, maybe I wasn't clear. As I stated before I think hound hunters because of their success ratio,willingness to trespass (in some cases), proliferation here, and the current law banning coyote hunting at night has driven most coyotes into hiding during daylight hours regardless of calling or not. I'm only saying managing a method not the species would be better for all. Just like they do for other species. That's just my observation though, not a guarantee I can't prove.

In who's opinion? The game department has determined dogging coyotes to be a legal method. Accepted by thousands of other hunters. For YOU to impose your wishes onto other folks participating in a legal activity kinda puts you on the high horse doesn't it? Sort of reminds me of the struggles within the nation right now between liberals and conservatives.



I agree...which is rare.
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Calling coyotes and not killing them definitely has a greater impact in harder future calls than dog running does.
 
Well, I am confused . On the one hand , very first post, you stated you didn't know it was so popular here. Then you essentially gave anecdotes of poor houndsman behavior which would imply observations. Which is it ? I'm thinking you were just wanting to add something to the discussion whether you observed it or not.

Lastly, a houndsman and a local ( me) offered you some assistance and company in getting into some places that aren't hunted by hounds. I like to do both . Nothing more thrilling then seeing that chase . Being a part of something thousands of years old. But , man, I sure love calling them in.

Anyway , welcome to the Comanche and Cotton County area. Most of the guys you see carrying dog boxes ? Hardzogs and Lewis'. They've been here since Statehood and own tons of ground here. And if they aren't from those families directly, you can bet money that they are hunting with them.

So you come here and start knocking how things are done by families for generations ? You're the interloper here. Not us. And you managed to hack off a guy that was willing to show some hospitality . Well played.

Aaron Proffitt, USN(Ret)

 
Originally Posted By: NeverStopTryingSorry, maybe I wasn't clear. As I stated before I think hound hunters because of their success ratio,willingness to trespass (in some cases), proliferation here, .

There it is again , proliferation here. But in your first post you said you didn't know it was such a big thing here. If it was as prolific as you imp!y , then it would've been obvious going in. Certainly would've been in the time you've lived here.
 
Uh, you've even complained about the number of hound hunters. I've lived here since July, is there a set time frame on being surprised by something. Maybe I'm not understanding what your getting at?
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I enjoyed the few logical comments. The hypocrisy though, the apples to oranges comparisons, the guarantees not based on facts and the constant fall back excuse of that's how we done did it for generations so its gotta be right bore me. If that was viable why is sluicing ducks illegal, the did that for generations. Saying running hounds across private land you dont have permission on cuz that's how we do it is like saying it's ok to steal because you like selling things second hand. I have my opinion, you got yours. What I've seen I have a low opinion of.....in the short time i been here. Keep your hospitality, I'll stand by my ethics.
 
Now that you’ve been pointed to some good calling spots, maybe we’ll cross paths and you can share your ignorant views. I drive a gray 2012 Dodge usually covered in mud .
 
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