Tough coyotes or not enough gun?
- Thread starter sleddogg
- Start date
varmit_master
New member
I have used my Rem 700 300 wby with a 125gr BT load. It will knok a hole in them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. Even if you make a bad shot you can still get them lol /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif. I dont use it much i carry my 22 250. VM
sleddogg
New member
Bump for new guys. This is a good post, not 'cause I started it, but because its still relevent. Plus we're pluggin' up the F and R forum talkin' about shootin' big Easterns.
I'm stayin' out of the fun this time around though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Sonny, if you resize your fish it will be easier to read.
Hope this gives all the new Eastern callers food for thought, and as always caliber posts can get hot, so have fun, just play nice.
I'm stayin' out of the fun this time around though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Sonny, if you resize your fish it will be easier to read.
Hope this gives all the new Eastern callers food for thought, and as always caliber posts can get hot, so have fun, just play nice.
JimT
New member
Wow, I posted in this a looong time ago.
To update my experience, I've shot several more with the .223 and continued to have mixed experience. I'm on my second bolt .243(sold the first). The last yote I shot was in January and he was DRT from a .243 80 gr soft point to the chest. I also saw a pretty gruesome death by .243 that is hard to explain except by sheer energy. I was calling with a friend and he was ~80 yards downwind of me. A female howled back at the FoxPro and came in about 90 yards downwind of him. He shot at her with his NEF .243 loaded with Winchester 100 gr. Powerpoints. She took off and ran back the way she came. We tracked her by the blood and eventually the large strings of fat! She was sprawled out maybe 100yds from where he shot her. If the bullet had been 1/2" lower it would have missed her completely. As it was, it entered about 1/2" behind her ribs and completely opened her up. It was like a bomb went off in her stomach, except none of the organs were damaged. It was a HUGE hole, I'd guess 5-6" across. The only way I know to explain it is energy.
To update my experience, I've shot several more with the .223 and continued to have mixed experience. I'm on my second bolt .243(sold the first). The last yote I shot was in January and he was DRT from a .243 80 gr soft point to the chest. I also saw a pretty gruesome death by .243 that is hard to explain except by sheer energy. I was calling with a friend and he was ~80 yards downwind of me. A female howled back at the FoxPro and came in about 90 yards downwind of him. He shot at her with his NEF .243 loaded with Winchester 100 gr. Powerpoints. She took off and ran back the way she came. We tracked her by the blood and eventually the large strings of fat! She was sprawled out maybe 100yds from where he shot her. If the bullet had been 1/2" lower it would have missed her completely. As it was, it entered about 1/2" behind her ribs and completely opened her up. It was like a bomb went off in her stomach, except none of the organs were damaged. It was a HUGE hole, I'd guess 5-6" across. The only way I know to explain it is energy.
browning204
New member
I shot a coyote not to long ago at about 40 yards straight on downward shot, put it between the front shoulders, the coyote took the shot and ran full speed until I shot it again a little far back and knocked it off its paws. It laid, barked and got up and ran again. We blood trailed it (alot of blood) through some very thick hemlock growth and were able to see where it stopped and rested. We trailed it for 1/4-1/2 mile before the blood trail stopped. Never did find it.
I was using a 55 grain federal softpoint in .223
I was using a 55 grain federal softpoint in .223
If you shoot many coyotes with a 243 and a 223 you'll notice a huge difference in the "WHOP".
When a 243 hits a coyote in the vitals they tend to expire before they hit the ground and the shock rips up their insides and turns them to jelly.
If you do the same with a 223 USUALLY the wound is much less devestating. They often die quickly but blood trailing is often necessary.
If hide damage is an issue then you'll need to formulate your own loads and shot angles. I don't have much experience with that.
Here in the south we just kill 'em and let 'em lay because the hides are worthless.
I think the 243 is the quintessential coyote round and there's a bit of experience to back that up...
My favorite bullets are from 70-87 grains but anything above the 65gr will do.
I've also killed quite a few with a 150gr Nosler Partition out of a 308 and never had one take even one step after being shot and hide damage is minimal. It's amazing that a bullet as tough as a Partition will open so readily in a coyote and kill so quickly and surely. Recoil can be a bit stout though and follow up shots aren't nearly as quick as with a 243. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Bang... Flop... So satisfying... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
$bob$
When a 243 hits a coyote in the vitals they tend to expire before they hit the ground and the shock rips up their insides and turns them to jelly.
If you do the same with a 223 USUALLY the wound is much less devestating. They often die quickly but blood trailing is often necessary.
If hide damage is an issue then you'll need to formulate your own loads and shot angles. I don't have much experience with that.
Here in the south we just kill 'em and let 'em lay because the hides are worthless.
I think the 243 is the quintessential coyote round and there's a bit of experience to back that up...
My favorite bullets are from 70-87 grains but anything above the 65gr will do.
I've also killed quite a few with a 150gr Nosler Partition out of a 308 and never had one take even one step after being shot and hide damage is minimal. It's amazing that a bullet as tough as a Partition will open so readily in a coyote and kill so quickly and surely. Recoil can be a bit stout though and follow up shots aren't nearly as quick as with a 243. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Bang... Flop... So satisfying... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
$bob$
Varmonter
New member
Watched a dvd i bought from one of the posters here.
wonderful quality made production. hunting in southern ontario
.."winter magic" i think is the name of it.
Now i know dvds can be edited to show only the bangflops
and i am aware there are probably some that got away that were not shown. But most of these foxes and yotes were shot
with a .17 javalina. Most over 150 yrds .and yes most were
well placed in the boiler bangflops. but some were
neck and spine. Would like to see these guys chime in here.
Just for another point of view. 243 is an awesome cartridge.
so is the .270 and .308. and the 45/70 gov.
All can be used on a coyote for a clean kill.
but so can the more diminutive rounds like 17hmr 17 rem
204 ruger 20 tac the 220 swift. there is a forum on coyote
hunting coyotegods.com .Most of those guys are shooting 17's
So i guess if you want to anchor them everytime no matter
where you hit them than a 416 Rigby would be my gun of choice. BAM!! Dang that hurt!!
I think it comes down to bullet choice. a 32 gr vmax
might be a great way to blow up prarie dogs or crows
but may open up a little too fast on larger game.
Sort of that splash effect you read about.
So any bullet that can get past the ribs should work well
on coyotes. If i have to shoot them in the butt or leg
just to keep them around long enough for a follow up shot,
Then i will not shoot them at all.
I for one would have to agree with zapper
in last years posts. I hunt for the experience.
I do not hunt for the fur although I may keep a few just to
hone my skinning skills. I am a firm believer in the balance of nature.And I believe yotes can put a hurting on small game populations.I have seen that around my place .But any first year environmental studies student can tell you that populations of predators.
will ebb and flow with populations of prey. eastern yotes
are a very adaptive creature and if there are no deer or rabbits grouse or turkeys they will eat berries and mice.
But will not produce as many pups as when prey is plentiful.
The wolves used to keep the coyotes in check ..no more.
Now it is my job /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am going to stick
with my little 204 ruger until such time i believe(And "I Believe"is the operative term here)it is not performing
as intended.
wonderful quality made production. hunting in southern ontario
.."winter magic" i think is the name of it.
Now i know dvds can be edited to show only the bangflops
and i am aware there are probably some that got away that were not shown. But most of these foxes and yotes were shot
with a .17 javalina. Most over 150 yrds .and yes most were
well placed in the boiler bangflops. but some were
neck and spine. Would like to see these guys chime in here.
Just for another point of view. 243 is an awesome cartridge.
so is the .270 and .308. and the 45/70 gov.
All can be used on a coyote for a clean kill.
but so can the more diminutive rounds like 17hmr 17 rem
204 ruger 20 tac the 220 swift. there is a forum on coyote
hunting coyotegods.com .Most of those guys are shooting 17's
So i guess if you want to anchor them everytime no matter
where you hit them than a 416 Rigby would be my gun of choice. BAM!! Dang that hurt!!
I think it comes down to bullet choice. a 32 gr vmax
might be a great way to blow up prarie dogs or crows
but may open up a little too fast on larger game.
Sort of that splash effect you read about.
So any bullet that can get past the ribs should work well
on coyotes. If i have to shoot them in the butt or leg
just to keep them around long enough for a follow up shot,
Then i will not shoot them at all.
I for one would have to agree with zapper
in last years posts. I hunt for the experience.
I do not hunt for the fur although I may keep a few just to
hone my skinning skills. I am a firm believer in the balance of nature.And I believe yotes can put a hurting on small game populations.I have seen that around my place .But any first year environmental studies student can tell you that populations of predators.
will ebb and flow with populations of prey. eastern yotes
are a very adaptive creature and if there are no deer or rabbits grouse or turkeys they will eat berries and mice.
But will not produce as many pups as when prey is plentiful.
The wolves used to keep the coyotes in check ..no more.
Now it is my job /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am going to stick
with my little 204 ruger until such time i believe(And "I Believe"is the operative term here)it is not performing
as intended.
GC
Well-known member
No doubt the little guns will do the job when everything is in their favor. The point of this thread I think is that in the thick cover seldom does everything line up exactly as one needs for the small calibers. Nor do you have time to fool around with responding coyotes in tight cover. They're in and out very quickly and if you truly want to kill them waiting for the perfect shot angle in the clear will leave many coyotes to bust you and make a healthy escape. And no, it isn't necessary to go above the .243 to hammer a coyote from any angle given decent bullet construction. Respectfully, reading your post it seems much of it is speculation based upon what you've seen on a DVD or read elsewhere on the net. If the hunters on the DVD are shooting over 150 yards, then obviously it's not thick cover situations. That allows one to see the coyote better, there's no interviening brush, and waiting for the right shot angle for precise placement is much easier. Simply, there's more time and opportunity in the open. You don't tell how many coyotes you've shot and recovered with your .204 in the thick stuff. Would you care to elaborate on your actual experience in the field shooting, killing, and recovering coyotes in typical thick cover situations with the .223 and lesser cartridges?
hickerx2
Member
The problem I run into alot is that you are about 10X more likely to call up a fox around here(SWNY)than a coyote. If you want to save fur, extraordinary measures must be taken. It may sound goofy but I tend to use an iron-sighted Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 as my heavy-cover gun. It will go end-to-end on anything, makes a small hole, and is very accurate under 100yds. I've yet to find a .223 load that is decisive enough to flop a coyote without cutting a fox in half. .243 is even less of an option when calling fox as well, or at least I've never been able to find a load that will do both. Fox are so easy to kill that non-expanding bullets work fine. Coyotes don't like the non-expandables so much though. The trick is to find a load that will expand on a coyote but not on a fox. I don't believe there is such a thing though.
GC
Well-known member
Expansion isn't such a big deal when the bullet starts out at .45 caliber! You're hitting them with a "pre-expanded" bullet already. The low velocity and stouter bullet construction lessens pelt damage. I've used my Marlin M1895 .45-70 also when calling where there are some wild hogs hoping to stumble into a boar. Lot's of fun... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif The .243 causes less damage when a 100 grain deer bullet is used as opposed to a violent expanding varmint slug at high velocity.
broknaero
New member
Im in the same boat as you hickerx2. I dont use my .220 swift anymore because of all the fox I ruin. I'd rather use my .17Rem for longer range or .22Mag for closer range to shoot fox. The occational coyote that comes in, I take a clean shot if its given, if not then it gets away a little smarter. Id rather educate a few coyotes than wound them, and I'd rather let some coyotes walk than split apart 10 fox to 1 clean killed coyote.
I also know better than to take a fast shot on a coyote with my .17 Rem. I dont want to hit any large bones, would ruin the hide as well as probably not kill the coyote. If the hide was ruined the coyote would be just as useless to me as one I couldnt recover. I do agree if your not after fox, or after fur at all then the .243 would work great. 90% of the time what I call in is fox. If its a coyote I just hold for a good shot. Or if targeting coyotes I use my .17Rem and my partner a .204 since he does'nt care about fur. We dont have the best luck targeting coyotes, but a few come in every year when we are after fox.
I also know better than to take a fast shot on a coyote with my .17 Rem. I dont want to hit any large bones, would ruin the hide as well as probably not kill the coyote. If the hide was ruined the coyote would be just as useless to me as one I couldnt recover. I do agree if your not after fox, or after fur at all then the .243 would work great. 90% of the time what I call in is fox. If its a coyote I just hold for a good shot. Or if targeting coyotes I use my .17Rem and my partner a .204 since he does'nt care about fur. We dont have the best luck targeting coyotes, but a few come in every year when we are after fox.
hickerx2
Member
Quote:
Hicker,
Makes me wonder about a nice cast slug in a .44 Mag lever gun for heavy brush.....hmmmmmm ?
Sure makes a loud whop when I hit chucks with them.
Pondering.....
PS-Where in SWNY are you located ?
Bob
I'd bet that a cast bullet from a .44 would work fine. The Hornady 265 SP should work great as well. It's not that one "needs" something that big, but the pelt damage is nil.
I'm in Franklinville, Cattaraugus County.
Hicker,
Makes me wonder about a nice cast slug in a .44 Mag lever gun for heavy brush.....hmmmmmm ?
Sure makes a loud whop when I hit chucks with them.
Pondering.....
PS-Where in SWNY are you located ?
Bob
I'd bet that a cast bullet from a .44 would work fine. The Hornady 265 SP should work great as well. It's not that one "needs" something that big, but the pelt damage is nil.
I'm in Franklinville, Cattaraugus County.
Varmonter
New member
Quote:
No doubt the little guns will do the job when everything is in their favor. The point of this thread I think is that in the thick cover seldom does everything line up exactly as one needs for the small calibers. Nor do you have time to fool around with responding coyotes in tight cover. They're in and out very quickly and if you truly want to kill them waiting for the perfect shot angle in the clear will leave many coyotes to bust you and make a healthy escape. And no, it isn't necessary to go above the .243 to hammer a coyote from any angle given decent bullet construction. Respectfully, reading your post it seems much of it is speculation based upon what you've seen on a DVD or read elsewhere on the net. If the hunters on the DVD are shooting over 150 yards, then obviously it's not thick cover situations. That allows one to see the coyote better, there's no interviening brush, and waiting for the right shot angle for precise placement is much easier. Simply, there's more time and opportunity in the open. You don't tell how many coyotes you've shot and recovered with your .204 in the thick stuff. Would you care to elaborate on your actual experience in the field shooting, killing, and recovering coyotes in typical thick cover situations with the .223 and lesser cartridges?
Gc. You are correct in assuming that I have not shot any coyote with this 204.And yes in the video i did watch,
the 17 javalina was used in wide open country.
And it wacked them.
I just bought the 204 in august.I am planning on using hornadys 45 gr psp with this gun. It shoots very well.
So yes i suppose it all comes down to shot placement.
and like i said if/when I believe this is not enough gun for coyote .i will sell it and switch to a more robust round.
I mean Buying a new gun and developing new loads and
testing it out on critters is a tough job,But somebodys got to do it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
VT.
.
No doubt the little guns will do the job when everything is in their favor. The point of this thread I think is that in the thick cover seldom does everything line up exactly as one needs for the small calibers. Nor do you have time to fool around with responding coyotes in tight cover. They're in and out very quickly and if you truly want to kill them waiting for the perfect shot angle in the clear will leave many coyotes to bust you and make a healthy escape. And no, it isn't necessary to go above the .243 to hammer a coyote from any angle given decent bullet construction. Respectfully, reading your post it seems much of it is speculation based upon what you've seen on a DVD or read elsewhere on the net. If the hunters on the DVD are shooting over 150 yards, then obviously it's not thick cover situations. That allows one to see the coyote better, there's no interviening brush, and waiting for the right shot angle for precise placement is much easier. Simply, there's more time and opportunity in the open. You don't tell how many coyotes you've shot and recovered with your .204 in the thick stuff. Would you care to elaborate on your actual experience in the field shooting, killing, and recovering coyotes in typical thick cover situations with the .223 and lesser cartridges?
Gc. You are correct in assuming that I have not shot any coyote with this 204.And yes in the video i did watch,
the 17 javalina was used in wide open country.
And it wacked them.
I just bought the 204 in august.I am planning on using hornadys 45 gr psp with this gun. It shoots very well.
So yes i suppose it all comes down to shot placement.
and like i said if/when I believe this is not enough gun for coyote .i will sell it and switch to a more robust round.
I mean Buying a new gun and developing new loads and
testing it out on critters is a tough job,But somebodys got to do it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
VT.
.
GC
Well-known member
Nope never used the .204. I switched to the .243 before the .204 was a glimmer in the designers eye. I have used the various .22 centerfires quite a bit over the years. I don't see the .204 being more effective than the .22-250, especially in the thick. And certainly not as much as the heavier .243. But that's just me, I have a system for me and it works.
Quote:
testing it out on critters is a tough job,But somebodys got to do it...
Rock on! Good luck and give us a full report when you've killed ten coyotes with it in the thick stuff. Then another at the next ten... And make that soon, right... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Quote:
testing it out on critters is a tough job,But somebodys got to do it...
Rock on! Good luck and give us a full report when you've killed ten coyotes with it in the thick stuff. Then another at the next ten... And make that soon, right... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
browning204
New member
thought about buying a 22/250 but I did not, the 22/250 is just to much for the areas that I hunt. Yes the .204 will get out there but the 22/250 is a bit much ( in my and other hunters from the areas opinion)
But I guess what ever works for the hunter is fine.
Varmonter: I plan on doing some hunting over there this winter, In Danville and over near the Moore res.
I have friends up there and have been bird and deer hunting up there. Beautiful up there! oh ya and freeking COLD!!!!
But I guess what ever works for the hunter is fine.
Varmonter: I plan on doing some hunting over there this winter, In Danville and over near the Moore res.
I have friends up there and have been bird and deer hunting up there. Beautiful up there! oh ya and freeking COLD!!!!