tumbling bullet? what the heck?

Originally Posted By: peterjc2muchgun, you stated that his 1-9 twist is to slow for his 105 gr. vld bullets.


That is correct.......
 
I have been reloading since 1964 and I can tell you 1-8 and 1-9 don't make a hill of beans. Maybe to a serious bench rest shooter but not for a hunting bullet. 1-9 jump to 1-12, yeah that is a BIG difference. Berger is just giving their very best twist for that bullet, that does not mean that the 1-9 won't shoot them almost as good. Your not going to get tumbling bullets jumping from 8 to 9 I can tell you that.
 
VLD (Very Low Drag) bullets have the highest possible ballistic coefficient designed for 300 yards or more. These bullets are less affected by wind and expand rapidly upon impact. VLD bullets were designed to shed 40% to 80% of its weight for a large amount of internal damage. Berger recommends that to achieve the best accuracy, the bullet should be seated to touch the rifling, therefore these may not work in standard magazines.
Technical Information


Sectional Density: 0.254
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.532

Notes:
•Recommended Twist Rate: 1 in 8"

i agree with 2muchgun, the barrel twist is too slow. VLD's are very picky about twist rates. if you have a bullet thats lets say 80gr and a 80gr vld the 80gr vld will require a faster twist then the standard 80gr.it vld's also need more yardage to stabilize.

 
larr,
I'm not going to argue with you guys any longer. I'm saying moving from 9 to 8 that is one inch per twist length will NOT make a bullet tumble when it wasn't tumbling at the first rate.
I'm not talking about optimum accuracy and either is the guy that originally posted this whole mess. Do you understand me now?
 
I'm not arguing with anyone either just a little discussion
smile.gif
but i do know that a vld bullet is different than a standard bullet.a change from a 1-9 twist to a 1-8 twist is no big deal for a standard bullet, but its a world of difference for a vld bullet.
 
This is my last post on this issue. The mans problem in the very first post was that his 105 gr. bullets were tumbling. 2muchgun asked him what twist he had. The guy said 1-9 and 2muchgun said..."Theres your problem 1-9 too slow for 105 vlds". Meaning that was the cause for the tumbling.
All I said and mean was that shooting the bullets in question out of a 1-8 twist will not be the solution of tumbling bullets out of a 1-9 twist. The man has another problem.
Larr I hope you undrstand what I'm saying. If he was shooting a 1-8 bbl. and doing fine, then jump to a 1-9, the vlds or any other bullet is not going to start tumbling on him. I rest my case and will not post anymore thank you very much for your kind attention.
 
Jacob_Hanan, this is my experience with vld bullets. i have a 6x47 lapua 1-9 twist,while working up loads i tried 105gr hornadys and 105 gr Berger VLD's both loaded exactly the same. the hornady's shot great but the Berger's key-holed. i was shocked i tried the same load again in both bullets with the same results. i emailed berger and explained to them what was happening and they said i needed a 1-8 twist or faster for the vld's. the vld's are shaped different then the hornadys.they told me to try shooting them at 300yds or more and see if they key-holed. since i don't have a range around me that goes out to 300 i cant say if they would or not. it might be your problem or it might not,this is just my experience. I'm not on here to argue with anyone. I'm just sharing the problem i had. it might be your problem or it might not.
 
You are wrong Peter. My 1-9 twisted barrel will stabilize 105gr A-maxes as pretty as you please. It will NOT stabilize a 105gr VLD.

Velocity can also factor into these types of situations. However, it is not a factor here, IMO. There are times when certain bullets WILL stabilize in twists slower than the one recommended by the manufacturer. I got into it with Catshooter awhile back about this. And as usual, proved him wrong.

Velocity X .720 divided by twist = RPM. This is the formula ballisticians use to come up with their recommendations. However, it is just that. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are not the norm.

Jacobs problem is exactly what I said it is, long ago before all this nonsense took place........
 
2MG, might as well let it go. Anyone that shoots VLD's knows what is happening.
Larr, if your bullet tumbles at 100yds it definately won't straighten out and stabilize at 300
 
Originally Posted By: JBPrecision
Larr, if your bullet tumbles at 100yds it definately won't straighten out and stabilize at 300

i told the guy at berger the same thing and he said the bullet is not tumbling it just isn't stabilized all the way yet, whatever that means, i assume he meant its wobbling? anyway i know from personal experience that the VLD's need a faster twist then the standard bullet of the same weight. maybe others don't have that problem, I'm just saying thats what happened to me.
 
From all that Has been said is that the VLD bullets take a faster twist rate than the typ. hunting bullet.

There are so many things that can contribute to key holing that it would be hard to nail it down to JUST ONE thing and one thing only. I do agree a 1-8 twist would be better but has anyone thought that the barrel he has might not even stabilize the bullet with the 1-8 twist. This is just my opinion and it cost's you nothing.

MOST of you would say a 1-14 twist in a 22-250 would be way to slow of twist to stabilize a 63 GR bullet.

BUT I have a Ruger 22-250 with a 1-14 twist that shoots the Sierra 63 Gr SMP's 5 shot group of .375 or better, .So how do you explain that.
will it do it all day?
I have no Idea if it would or not and do not care.

DAB
 
To jump into the middle of a pissing match, since the OP is running a slower twist coupled with a smaller charge, 1st thing I would probably try would be bump the velocity up and see if it starts to make a difference. Might not fix the problem, but it might help a bit.
 
I use an 8.5" twist barrel to shoot the VLDs and it stabilizes them just fine. A 9" twist will not. An 8" will work well also, I just like to use the minimum twist to stabilize.

Jack
 
I thought of suggesting that, but he mentioned it flattening primers. Without knowing more, I decided to hold off. May or may not be a sign of pressure........
 
well i havent messed with the vlds anymore but will keep you posted when i do. i loaded up some speer 90 grain bullets and the work well. thanks for all of the info guys!!!!
 
I missed the part about the primers. Going off of memory here since I've never had this problem, but if he's got his charge too light/too fast a powder he might have itty bitty bombs going off instead of a cartridge. Could show some pressure signs from that as well. Would also drop his velocity quite a bit.

Different bullet type is an easy change and as he says, tends to make a difference. I know my .223 wouldn't group remingtons no matter what I did. I switched to matchkings and she groups nicely now. Not that you could tell by today at the PD fields, couldn't hit anything today for some reason. It's got some range time in its future.

Pulled out the HMR though and was back in bidness.
 
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Originally Posted By: DAB
MOST of you would say a 1-14 twist in a 22-250 would be way to slow of twist to stabilize a 63 GR bullet.

BUT I have a Ruger 22-250 with a 1-14 twist that shoots the Sierra 63 Gr SMP's 5 shot group of .375 or better, .So how do you explain that.
will it do it all day?
I have no Idea if it would or not and do not care.

DAB



Velocity.
 


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