unexplained high velocity with H335 and damage.
- Thread starter bakerboy
- Start date
ohihunter2014
New member
Originally Posted By: pahntr760Originally Posted By: ohihunter2014looks like my h335 will be getting disposed of! i loaded 55gr sp at minimum last summer. that's all i need as a new reloader is to have something like this happen. i also think its total BS that each book has a different load.
You still haven't figured out that the book is simply a guide. Nothing more...every rifle will have its own max for each load. You really need to do some more reading and research into basic reloading principals. The information you typed here has me quite concerned as to your current reloading practices. Work up loads, pay attention to pressure signs, learn how to read them. Group types, velocity, type of fouling are all key signs of how the load is behaving.
I read my books. what I'm saying is for new people such as myself. one book says say 20gr min-25gr max another 18gr min-21gr max is all I was saying.
You still haven't figured out that the book is simply a guide. Nothing more...every rifle will have its own max for each load. You really need to do some more reading and research into basic reloading principals. The information you typed here has me quite concerned as to your current reloading practices. Work up loads, pay attention to pressure signs, learn how to read them. Group types, velocity, type of fouling are all key signs of how the load is behaving.
I read my books. what I'm saying is for new people such as myself. one book says say 20gr min-25gr max another 18gr min-21gr max is all I was saying.
mbaysinger89
Active member
I never said you quote loading manuals, thays just all the reloading literature I have.
I will look into those thanks for the info.
I will look into those thanks for the info.
bakerboy
New member
Some very good info that I will take to heart.
Now some new findings. I pulled the bullet on the 22 gr. loads.
I lost a little powder sticking to the bullet and neck maybe a 1/4 gr.but the powder weight was ONLY 20. Sierra has a minimum in my book of 23. After blowing up an AR with 24, I skipped 23 and went with 22. With now 20.25 being so much below the minimum, could I be in detonation mode?
PS: bore scope is def in the plans.
Now some new findings. I pulled the bullet on the 22 gr. loads.
I lost a little powder sticking to the bullet and neck maybe a 1/4 gr.but the powder weight was ONLY 20. Sierra has a minimum in my book of 23. After blowing up an AR with 24, I skipped 23 and went with 22. With now 20.25 being so much below the minimum, could I be in detonation mode?
PS: bore scope is def in the plans.
skinnyminny
New member
Have you tried a few loads with different powder?
Tim Neitzke
New member
H335 has been around for years and shot in all types of climates. It's all I feed my 223s,along with thousands of other people...
As others have stated, don't think the problem is H335.
I've used a smidgeon over the listed max in Nosler 7th and an older Hodgdon (26th) manuals behind 55 gr. NBT's in four different rifles to 100* temp. w/no signs of pressure. Velocity is 3130 compared to a listing of 3140 (Nosler) and 3203 (Hodgdon). But, each rifle is different.
Your rifle getting nearly 300 fps more than listing for max charge w/the 69's. More velocity = more pressure.
JMO, but for whatever reason, 23.8 gr is obviously too hot in your rifle.
Edit to add: Since you are chasing throat erosion in your barrel w/heavier bullets, perhaps you are getting too close in combination with a max. load.
I had issues w/blowing primers w/some 5.56mm American Eagle XM193BL (55 gr. FMJ) in a Bushmaster Predator and, while the Predator is rated by BM to handle the M193, after much measuring, disassembly of rounds, etc. decided that the problem was a combination of poor quality control (much more variation in powder and COAL than one would expect) and the hybrid chamber not providing sufficient leade. As expected, seating bullets a few thousandths deeper resolved the problem.
Regards,
hm
I've used a smidgeon over the listed max in Nosler 7th and an older Hodgdon (26th) manuals behind 55 gr. NBT's in four different rifles to 100* temp. w/no signs of pressure. Velocity is 3130 compared to a listing of 3140 (Nosler) and 3203 (Hodgdon). But, each rifle is different.
Your rifle getting nearly 300 fps more than listing for max charge w/the 69's. More velocity = more pressure.
JMO, but for whatever reason, 23.8 gr is obviously too hot in your rifle.
Edit to add: Since you are chasing throat erosion in your barrel w/heavier bullets, perhaps you are getting too close in combination with a max. load.
I had issues w/blowing primers w/some 5.56mm American Eagle XM193BL (55 gr. FMJ) in a Bushmaster Predator and, while the Predator is rated by BM to handle the M193, after much measuring, disassembly of rounds, etc. decided that the problem was a combination of poor quality control (much more variation in powder and COAL than one would expect) and the hybrid chamber not providing sufficient leade. As expected, seating bullets a few thousandths deeper resolved the problem.
Regards,
hm
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If anyone is thinking of throwing away all of their 335, please let me give you a mailing address so I can take it off your hands and "dispose" of it properly. As a more serious suggestion you might want to consider H4895, Varget, TAC or Re15 for those heavier pills. Just a suggestion....
I think it's even possible you had a delayed detonation, causing 2 separate ignitions and blowing up your gun. Happens sometimes with charges below minimum. There's a warning on that in most reloading books.
ON THE OTHER HAND, anyone who has now killed a rifle and blown multiple primers with their handloads probably needs to focus more on fishing or shoot factory ammunition. You shouldn't have that much bad luck in a lifetime. I've blown some primers in heavy duty target guns, but I knew it was coming and it was for experimental purposes.
It has been my experience that with smaller cartridges it's very difficult to overcharge a case to the point of causing an explosion- and pretty much impossible with most slower burning powders as they take up a lot of room in the case.
Something is wrong with your equipment or your abilities, STAND BACK AND HAVE A LOOK.
I'm well aware that I'm being a real a s s hole right now but since nobody really got the point across I'll give this a try.
No hard feelings, just trying to save your life.
ON THE OTHER HAND, anyone who has now killed a rifle and blown multiple primers with their handloads probably needs to focus more on fishing or shoot factory ammunition. You shouldn't have that much bad luck in a lifetime. I've blown some primers in heavy duty target guns, but I knew it was coming and it was for experimental purposes.
It has been my experience that with smaller cartridges it's very difficult to overcharge a case to the point of causing an explosion- and pretty much impossible with most slower burning powders as they take up a lot of room in the case.
Something is wrong with your equipment or your abilities, STAND BACK AND HAVE A LOOK.
I'm well aware that I'm being a real a s s hole right now but since nobody really got the point across I'll give this a try.
No hard feelings, just trying to save your life.
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Originally Posted By: bakerboySorry, forgot a few. Krieger .223 Rem chamber. Brass 1.75. Never long.
From what I can tell, it seems like you may be looking at 5.56x45 data and using it for a .223 chamber? I'm also a little confused about you loading 22 grains but measuring 20 grains when you pulled the bullets. Could be a problem with your scale. What if you were 2 grains off in the other direction for 26 grains instead of a max of 24 grains for a 5.56 chamber?! Also, if you're throat is that eroded, you should probably just rebarrel. The amount of throat erosion it sounds like you have could be tearing up the jackets and be messing things up.
From what I can tell, it seems like you may be looking at 5.56x45 data and using it for a .223 chamber? I'm also a little confused about you loading 22 grains but measuring 20 grains when you pulled the bullets. Could be a problem with your scale. What if you were 2 grains off in the other direction for 26 grains instead of a max of 24 grains for a 5.56 chamber?! Also, if you're throat is that eroded, you should probably just rebarrel. The amount of throat erosion it sounds like you have could be tearing up the jackets and be messing things up.
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bakerboy
New member
Originally Posted By: desertcjOriginally Posted By: bakerboySorry, forgot a few. Krieger .223 Rem chamber. Brass 1.75. Never long.
From what I can tell, it seems like you may be looking at 5.56x45 data and using it for a .223 chamber? I'm also a little confused about you loading 22 grains but measuring 20 grains when you pulled the bullets. Could be a problem with your scale. What if you were 2 grains off in the other direction for 26 grains instead of a max of 24 grains for a 5.56 chamber?! Also, if you're throat is that eroded, you should probably just rebarrel. The amount of throat erosion it sounds like you have could be tearing up the jackets and be messing things up.
Some reasonable observations, thanks. The 2 grain deviation bothered me as well. I did lose some powder in the pulling process. I am just so very careful measuring powder. Balance beam leveled. No drafts. Zeroed. At eye level to avoid parallax
Trickled to the balance point. Scale checked with
known weights. Plus it shoots 55 gr Berger on 25 gr of H335 sub 1/2 moa at 100 all day. No issues
From what I can tell, it seems like you may be looking at 5.56x45 data and using it for a .223 chamber? I'm also a little confused about you loading 22 grains but measuring 20 grains when you pulled the bullets. Could be a problem with your scale. What if you were 2 grains off in the other direction for 26 grains instead of a max of 24 grains for a 5.56 chamber?! Also, if you're throat is that eroded, you should probably just rebarrel. The amount of throat erosion it sounds like you have could be tearing up the jackets and be messing things up.
Some reasonable observations, thanks. The 2 grain deviation bothered me as well. I did lose some powder in the pulling process. I am just so very careful measuring powder. Balance beam leveled. No drafts. Zeroed. At eye level to avoid parallax
Trickled to the balance point. Scale checked with
known weights. Plus it shoots 55 gr Berger on 25 gr of H335 sub 1/2 moa at 100 all day. No issues
sandy hicks
New member
Late to the party but you checked your scale for accuracy with a bullet. In my experience, I have had bullets be off a grain or two on my scale. You will be much safer with a true scale weight to zero with.
Plant.One
Well-known member
please provide your full load data - case, primer, etc etc etc. this is very important critical when diagnosing problems with reloads.
couple of quick questions regarding the sierra data that you extrapolated your load from....
what case did they say to use?
what primer did they say to use?
what OAL did they say to use?
so looking at your thread AND what the sierra data that i have access to shows the following
1) you went over their listed max charge
2) you used a different primer
3) you used a different case
baring that you deviated from the standard 2.260 OAL, you still have 3 things that are seriously out of tune.
my point is - load data is SPECIFIC to 6 major component choices - bullet, OAL, case, primer, powder & the gun (more specifically its chamber). This is of course assuming from the start that you're using data for the proper caliber that your barrel is stamped for.
any time you change even a single piece of this (or any) recipe - load development needs to start from scratch. meaning start at a minimum charge and book OAL and work up from there. you have admittedly changed 3 of those already. (actually 4 since you used a different rifle than the test data, but i wont nit pick that one)
further ..... when playing any "chase the lands" type of game, you first need to work from a standard COAL to determine whats safe at those lengths - and then SLOWLY and extremely carefully adjust your COAL CBTO from there. Preferably after measuring where exactly the lands make contact with the Ogive of the bullet with a comparator and a COAL type gauge.
so can you give us the CBTO max length to lands in your rifle with the 69 SMK? and what was the CBTO of the cartridges you loaded?
couple of quick questions regarding the sierra data that you extrapolated your load from....
what case did they say to use?
what primer did they say to use?
what OAL did they say to use?
so looking at your thread AND what the sierra data that i have access to shows the following
1) you went over their listed max charge
2) you used a different primer
3) you used a different case
baring that you deviated from the standard 2.260 OAL, you still have 3 things that are seriously out of tune.
my point is - load data is SPECIFIC to 6 major component choices - bullet, OAL, case, primer, powder & the gun (more specifically its chamber). This is of course assuming from the start that you're using data for the proper caliber that your barrel is stamped for.
any time you change even a single piece of this (or any) recipe - load development needs to start from scratch. meaning start at a minimum charge and book OAL and work up from there. you have admittedly changed 3 of those already. (actually 4 since you used a different rifle than the test data, but i wont nit pick that one)
further ..... when playing any "chase the lands" type of game, you first need to work from a standard COAL to determine whats safe at those lengths - and then SLOWLY and extremely carefully adjust your COAL CBTO from there. Preferably after measuring where exactly the lands make contact with the Ogive of the bullet with a comparator and a COAL type gauge.
so can you give us the CBTO max length to lands in your rifle with the 69 SMK? and what was the CBTO of the cartridges you loaded?
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