Video for discussion... 9mm vs. .45 ACP

To be 100% honest, I shoot/prefer the 9mm because its cheap to shoot. I don't reload pistol ammunition and I can get the 9mm stuff pretty cheap for the amount I shoot a pistol. Love the 45 but the 9 does me OK and I agree, shot placement is the key.
 
9mm, more rounds can be carried in the same space and similar weight as 45. And of course, rounds on target with either is key.
 
I think bullet design has narrowed the gap between calibers. We now have bullets deigned to do specific jobs for most firearms, which is great.
 
The 45 ACP wins every time using the same type bullet construction.

The 45 ACP leaves a bigger hole by .097 than the 9 MM. A bullet is round, so its true measure is circumference, which is c = d x pi.
.452 x 3.14 = 1.42"
.355 x 3.14 = 1.12"

That number difference seems small but you need to consider a wound cavity is cylindrical, so now we can look at the volume of a cylinder which is pi x radius squared x height – let’s say we go through 10 inches of vital tissue such as the lungs for simplicity sake.
3.14 x (.226 x 2) x 10 = 1.6 cubic inches
3.14 x (.178 x 2) x 10 = 0.99 cubic inches

That shows the .452 bullet destroys about 50% more lung than a 9 MM everything else being equal, which is very significant when it comes to incapacitation.

The 9mm crowd keeps trying to confuse people by stating the 9mm will do everything plus a little more than the 45ACP - if we are talking penetration distance using hardball in both guns - ya, the 9mm with its smaller diameter will go a little deeper - not that much deeper but the 9mm will win on that front.

Killing Power - the 45ACP wins every time using science. Either caliber in the hands of a competent pisterlo will do the job it was intended to do but don't compare the 9mm using gold dots against a 45ACP using ball, as the ball ammo won't expand while the Gold Dot will probably expand to the diameter of the 45 ACP and maybe a bit more - that's stacking the deck in favor of the 9mm.

I reload 45 ACP, so my hunting/defensive round is the 230 grain Gold Dot in front of a quantity of VV N350 exiting a 5" barrel at 915 fps - it's called a flying ashtray for a good reason.
 
There is a lot more to wound channel size than simply bullet diameter. A lot can be said about hydrostatic displacement and temp wound channels advantages with speed.

However, at no point will this debate be ended and strong proponents on either side are nearly impossible to convince otherwise.
 
Ya BUT - There is no hydro-static effect to living tissue, because a hydro-static wound cavity is temporary and the energy is transmitted radially. It’s commonly known that hydro-static shock will not damage elastic tissue, only the brain, liver and kidneys are damaged by hydro-static shock if the bullet passes very, very close by. It’s the size of the wound that causes the shock not energy transfer. Energy has no role in terminal ballistics.

When in doubt about hydro-static temporary wound channel effects, contact your nearest emergency room physician for input.
 
Originally Posted By: JoeyJYa BUT - There is no hydro-static effect to living tissue, because a hydro-static wound cavity is temporary and the energy is transmitted radially. It’s commonly known that hydro-static shock will not damage elastic tissue, only the brain, liver and kidneys are damaged by hydro-static shock if the bullet passes very, very close by. It’s the size of the wound that causes the shock not energy transfer. Energy has no role in terminal ballistics.

"Terminal ballistics is the study of how a projectile behaves when it hits its target and transfers its kinetic energy to the target."

Energy plays "no role" in terminal ballistics? None, at all?

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/ballistic-resources/terminal-ballistics
 
When reading about foot pounds of energy – some tables provide nice big integers to toss about.

Energy is scalar, strictly a measure of magnitude without vector or description.

1,000 ft/lbs means the object contains enough kinetic energy to move 1,000lbs- 1 foot vertically or horizontally, or 500 lbs – 2 feet vertically or horizontally and so on. Now take your 9 MM with a 124gr projectile at say 1,300 fps at the muzzle. That’s roughly 465 ft/lbs of energy. Lay that muzzle against the side of a 230 lb object and you should move it roughly 2 feet. Ever seen that happen?

Energy is completely specious until you can describe precisely the work being done with the vector or so I've been told.

That Hornady ad is a tad deceptive, as it talks about kinetic energy and the tearing of tissue - the bullet's diameter is responsible for mashing and tearing the tissue.

A larger wound creates a higher probability of hemorrhagic shock, the precursor to primary shock. Larger wounds bleed more, larger wounds destroy and/or macerate more tissue, and larger wounds have a higher probability of disrupting nerve plexuses. These are the mechanisms of incapacitation and the larger diameter bullet creates a larger wound, all else being equal.
 
I generally like the higher round count of the smaller chamberings, like compact guns too. For that reason, I’m fine with the 9mm & even the 380 part time. I do have allowance for what’s going on, still have plenty of 40 cal options.

As far as arguments & such, no real interest in that. If it’s friendly campfire chatter, I’ll join.
 
With the right ammo the 9mm is so good now that even the FBI has gone back to using it. I have a custom Series 70 1911 Colt .45 that I am very fond of and enjoy shooting it. But really, if I ever needed a handgun in a serious social encounter then I would rather have a high capacity 9mm with +P ammo then any single stack .45 ACP.
 
Of course you could always carry a double stack 45. They aren't so big as to be unusable. I've been known to pack one on occasion but I am a bit different when it comes to handgun usage than most.

Based on circumstances I've carried everything from a .380 up to a 44 Magnum over the years. Most times I vacillate between a Browning High Power and my Star PD 45.

I do like the bores that start with a 4 but competence with any platform will certainly help level the playing field in any adverse confrontation.

Greg
 
I don't get too hung up on caliber/rounds, when I'm carrying its usually a .380 or a 9mm. As long as it makes holes, is reliable and is accurate.
 
Originally Posted By: RustydustWith the right ammo the 9mm is so good now that even the FBI has gone back to using it.

Let's remember why the FBI left the 10mm....nothing to do with performance. And I don't believe it does this time either.

I carry 10mm, 40SW, and 45ACP in that order though I shoot several 50cal ammo cans of 9mm on the range per year. But I agree the 9mm of 2019 is not the 9mm of the 1980s. But all the other rounds have better bullets too...
 
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Originally Posted By: springer

Let's remember why the FBI left the 10mm....nothing to do with performance. And I don't believe it does this time either.

I carry 10mm, 40SW, and 45ACP in that order though I shoot several 50cal ammo cans of 9mm on the range per year. But I agree the 9mm of 2019 is not the 9mm of the 1980s. But all the other rounds have better bullets too...
 
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