VSSF II Junk Update: Am I crazy?

H

hawkeye reloader

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For those of you who read my first post on this gun I have an update! I took the gun to a Scheel's which has an authorized Remington repair center. They took my gun, installed the x-mark trigger, mounted a scope and shot the factory 32 grain Hornady V-maxs. The best 3 5 shot groups were .9, 1.3 and 1.1. They told me that I cannot test 5 shot groups with this gun because the 4th and 5th shots will always be fliers (even with a cool barrel). They also said that I could not get good groups with the Jewell trigger because it's too light. It's factory set at one pound by the way. I have to say I was extremely offended by this. They also stated that 40 grain bullets were key-holing and they thought this was "not" unusual. I told them that in my opinion that was the sign of a bad barrel if it's a 1-12 twist and won't stabilize a 40 grain bullet. They said I would not be able to get it to go fast enough to stabilize a 40 grain bullet. Huh? Really? Key-hole normal for a 1-12 twist 204? 3,700 fps is too slow??? I called Remington immediately thereafter and they are sending me a free ship-to label to send the gun back directly to them. The gal on the phone was very surprised at what the shop had to say. Am I crazy? What do you folks think? By the way the gun shop guys said that all the groups were well within Remington standards. Would you be happy getting 1"-2+" groups with a gun costing $1,250?
PS-I discoved this week that my Remi LVSF 22-250 will easily put both the 40 NBT and V-max into 1/2 MOA groups with Varget. They do make some great guns!
 
I would hope Remington would not set their standard to 1"-2" for an acceptable group, especially not for that money. Both the poor grouping and the keyholing of 40gn ammo seem to apply here and there with most rifles in .204 with the 1-12 twist. I had a CZ527 that would keyhole the 40's at 100, but shot sub 1/2 groups with 32gn. Hopefully Remington will make it right with you. Glad your LVSF is a shooter. I have had a bunch of Rem's over the years with some that were out of the box shooters and some requiring work before they would perform. That said, I still trust them enough to buy them. Let us know how it turns out for you.
 
Lots of folks have had key-holing problems with 20 caliber 40 grain Hornady bullets in the 12" twist barrels. That is not new news....

Before you send the rifle off, you might want to try the shorter 39 grain Sierra bullets or the very tough 35 grain Berger and play with a few seating depths. The 204 Ruger likes a good jump to the rifling.... I bet one or both of them will stabilize in the 12" twist barrel.

On some of the other topics, I'm not sure where they are coming from, but on the 40 grain bullets not stabilizing, that is fairly common knowledge.

I hope I didn't offend you in any way with my answer....

-BCB
 
Originally Posted By: hawkeye reloader

They told me that I cannot test 5 shot groups with this gun because the 4th and 5th shots will always be fliers (even with a cool barrel). They also said that I could not get good groups with the Jewell trigger because it's too light.




If they told you that, they are clueless, or crooked. Did they keep the Jewel trigger? I hope that you got it back. What ever you do don't send it back to the factory with the jewel trigger. leave the factory trigger on it.

As said above, Try the lighter bullets. The 40 gr VMax's won't shoot in a lot of 1-12 twist 204's.
 
No sweat, I appreciate the up front stuff. I was not aware of the 40s key-holing. That certianly explains 2+" groups with the V-max. As a last ditch effort I am going to try 10X and the 39 Sierras you mentioned. And yes the trigger will never leave my hands again
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My 204 was a VLS. It shot 40gr. Bergers well under 1/2" and the 35 Bergers just as well. The 39gr. BK's weren't as good, but well under an inch. BLc-2 and 4895 work very good as far as powder goes. And as BCB said, mine liked alot of jump. The closer to the lands I got, the bigger the group. I would try a few of the options before sending it back. How ever it turn out, I would find another gun smith besides Scheel's. Sound to me like a bunch of smoke being blown.
 
If you want, PM me your address and I will just send you 10 or so of the 39gn Sierras so you can try them out before buying a whole box. I have had good luck with them in the CZ527 when the 40vmax didn't work.
 
Originally Posted By: stealthmanIf you want, PM me your address and I will just send you 10 or so of the 39gn Sierras so you can try them out before buying a whole box. I have had good luck with them in the CZ527 when the 40vmax didn't work.


Hey, thats pretty cool of you.
 
Another bullet that will stabilize in the 1/12 twist is the 40gr Berger at least in my 1/12 and according to Berger when I asked them.Oh and BCB is correct that its fairly common knowledge that the 40gr Vmax may not stabilize in the 1/12 twist.
 
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was that the sioux falls scheels? their gun repair center is terrible w/ warranty work, and your experience is on par w/ what i have seen there...
 
Originally Posted By: stealthmanIf you want, PM me your address and I will just send you 10 or so of the 39gn Sierras so you can try them out before buying a whole box. I have had good luck with them in the CZ527 when the 40vmax didn't work. +1 very cool
 
It was Des Moines. I'm not saying these guys don't do good work. They might. But in this case they basically just shot the gun and got the same results. Then they pointed thier finger at me and said it was a good gun, well within Remington's standards. They blamed the test loads, my trigger, the fact that I was shooting 5 shot groups instead of 3 shot groups, barrel heat, the cartridge, etc. Not making this up. They also said I didn't do enough load development. I guess 2 cases, 2 primers, 5 bullets and 8 powders doesn't cut it? Oh yeah, add in the factory fodder, it likes neither the 32 or 40 grain V-max.
 
i went back and re-read what you wrote... the guys at scheels aren't being straight with you - but you know that. as for the 40's not shooting, i don't know as i've never played w/ a 204.

it sounds like there are some issues there that can probably be resolved easily enough given that factory ammo shows some signs of life.

are your fired cases straight?
are you working w/ a chronograph?
is your barrel floating?
is your action bedded?
pillars?
have you pulled the action from the stock and checked for fit issues?
are you testing from a benched and bagged position? if so, are you using any sort of a vise (ie lead sled)?
if you are benching, how consistent is your technique?

i think you can resolve this gun easily enough, but you may have to troubleshoot a little bit, and part of the troubleshooting is going to have to include an assessment of the shooter...
 
Hopefully, Remington will make it right with you on this. While I'm admittedly far from an expert in both guns and shooting tight groups, I own a VSSF-II in .204. Shoots 3/4" groups with factory Hornady 40 gr. ammo and shoots sub 1/2" groups with my handloads in 32 gr. I use 26.5 grains of Benchmark with a 32 gr. Hornady V-max. Full length sized and they ARE 5-shot groups. Factory guns are built better now than ever before. I will not accept 1-2" groups from any of my rifles.
 
I have been following this post from the start and have come up with an answer that I would do. I had a 223 Rem. in an LTR platform. When I bought the rifle, I was excited about how good it WAS going to shoot. From day one, it was a problem. Several trips to the gun smith trying to work out problems before it ever made it to the range. $100.00 for parts, 4 trips to the gun smith, bought a new stock, on and on. Finally made it to the range and it shot good, but along ways from being great. Finally pulled the new stock and sold the POS at a $200.00 lose, but it was worth the piece of mind. Sometimes it best to say "screw-it" and just start over. JMO
 
Originally Posted By: Orneryolfart357Sometimes that is best.. when you beat your head against the wall. sometimes you have to say " thats enough".


I have to totally agree!!
 
BIG GREEN sent UPS to my door Tuesday with a brand-spanking new VSSFII .204 Ruger. Not new barrel or parts, new gun. The paperwork said accuracy issue "unable to be resolved". I'll have to shoot this in the next couple weeks and see how it performs! Think I'll start out with some 39 SBK's and some 10X.
 
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