I'm thinking about buying either a .257 Weatherby Mag or a .224 Weatherby Mag. Aside from cost of ammunition what are the other cons of these cartridges? Is there one you'd prefer over the other? What is the brass life like on the Weatherby cartridges? I'd be reloading so that's something I'd like to know especially.
Weatherby cartridges.
- Thread starter OKRattler
- Start date
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Why the belted variants? There are other cartridges out there that will perform as well or even better, and are much easier to deal with at the reloading bench.
From what I have gathered over the years, the main problem is that resizing dies won't prevent the cases from developing a bulge just above the belt, and this obviously causes chambering problems as well as case separation. At least ....... that's the way it was years ago. Today's dies may have solved that issue.
If my history lessons are still intact, belted cartridges were initially developed to headspace off the belt instead of the shoulder. This was because they were intended for use in dirty environments (Africa, etc) and the chambers were bored loose to allow for foreign materials. So they weren't designed to headspace off the shoulder: Thus the belt.
HTH.
From what I have gathered over the years, the main problem is that resizing dies won't prevent the cases from developing a bulge just above the belt, and this obviously causes chambering problems as well as case separation. At least ....... that's the way it was years ago. Today's dies may have solved that issue.
If my history lessons are still intact, belted cartridges were initially developed to headspace off the belt instead of the shoulder. This was because they were intended for use in dirty environments (Africa, etc) and the chambers were bored loose to allow for foreign materials. So they weren't designed to headspace off the shoulder: Thus the belt.
HTH.
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
I always like the idea of a 257 Weatherby because of how flat they shot and I also shot one that I fell in love with a vintage mark 5 back in the 90s. Imo because of all that free chambered throat they are not target guns and never will be minute of angle coyote for me. Most of those guns shot MOA are larger at best from what I’ve seen. They are an old design to shoot as bragging fast velocities for big game In the 60’s and early 70’s. Kind of like my RUMs That were second go for velocity freaks. They at least shot halfway tight groups vs the Weatherby produced rifles with their shorter chambers so you could load the bullets to the lands. The heavy barrels are pretty accurate, but the lighter pencil barrels like buying heat up after the third shot and start opening up my groups. About the only one that really has held on is the 338 Lapua, which is basically about the same as a 338 rum remarketed. Nosler even tried round three with all their Nosler 404 Jefferey’s cases shortened a hair smaller than the Utra mags. You don’t really hear about them either anymore. Reloaders quickly realize that when you start stuffing 100 to 110 grains of powder into a case, your pound of powder disappears after about 40 to 50 rounds. I can get it done with a 30-06 and just have to hold over a lot more at a 1000 yards.
Not that either is necessarily bad but rather you can achieve the same thing, or better, with other cartridges and you won't have to pay a premium for brass or ammunition and since you mentioned you reload you can make just about anything you want. Years ago when I was a younger man I had a small love affair with Weatherby cartridges so I've been down that road with numerous different Weatherby's. I believe Norma makes their brass, or at least they used to, and it's not that it's bad brass but the primer pockets will start to loosen up much sooner then some of the other brass makers like Lapua or ADG.
Are you looking for some kind of factory chambered rifle you can buy or are you thinking about having something built? Obviously, if you're looking for some kind of the shelf factory rifle you can go out and buy right now that'll narrow down your options considerably, but, if you're thinking about having something built then that opens up the possibilities to about anything you can dream up.
Right now a 25 caliber that is becoming very popular is a fast twist 25-6.5PRC shooting the 133 or 135 Berger's and the new 134 ELD-M. Alex Wheeler is a pretty good smith that posts on different forums and he's built a few of them and from a 26in barrel I think he's sending those bullets downrange around 3150-3200fps and they are shooting lights out. I'm having a 25 SAUM built to shoot those same bullets and with the SAUM having a little more case capacity I'm guessing it'll be in the 3200-3200+ range.
Unless you just really want one I'd skip the 224 Weatherby all together and just go get yourself a 22-250 in something like a Tikka and I'd probably get the one they sell with the 8tw barrel so you always have the option to shoot pretty much all the bullet weights.
Are you looking for some kind of factory chambered rifle you can buy or are you thinking about having something built? Obviously, if you're looking for some kind of the shelf factory rifle you can go out and buy right now that'll narrow down your options considerably, but, if you're thinking about having something built then that opens up the possibilities to about anything you can dream up.
Right now a 25 caliber that is becoming very popular is a fast twist 25-6.5PRC shooting the 133 or 135 Berger's and the new 134 ELD-M. Alex Wheeler is a pretty good smith that posts on different forums and he's built a few of them and from a 26in barrel I think he's sending those bullets downrange around 3150-3200fps and they are shooting lights out. I'm having a 25 SAUM built to shoot those same bullets and with the SAUM having a little more case capacity I'm guessing it'll be in the 3200-3200+ range.
Unless you just really want one I'd skip the 224 Weatherby all together and just go get yourself a 22-250 in something like a Tikka and I'd probably get the one they sell with the 8tw barrel so you always have the option to shoot pretty much all the bullet weights.
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
I remember when Remington started producing the 257 Weatherby in the 700s in limited runs and then factory stand production Chambering around 15 to 20 years ago give or take. I had three buddies at all bought the matching stainless fluted version and we’re all less than impressed with the accuracy out of them and traded every one of them off. I figured at least with a shorter cut throat it in the 700 action. It would have half a chance for better accuracy and apparently it didn’t. Most of tnose guns that had and sold came with hs prescion fully bedded aluminum block stocks and still shot 1 1/4” at best with factory ammo. I picked the 257 over the 224 but just don’t expect stellar accuracy like a varmint or target rifle. If you find a load that shoots 1 inch groups that’s probably going to be the norm.
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204 AR
Well-known member
I've only had two Wby's, one a 270 mag, and still have it, it's on it's second barrel. The first barrel shot so well I literally shot it all the time for a couple years and toasted it. The second barrel has lasted me 20 years and shoots 129 gr LRX barnes at almost 3400 fps, and well sub-moa to 400, which is as far as I've gone so far. Honestly, I ran out of bullets and didn't have any hunting plans so haven't bought any more yet, but this year I'm going deer hunting and taking it along, just in case there's a big one way out there lol. I like shooting a big variety of rounds and rifles, but when I'm serious about big game, (which isn't very often anymore) this is the rifle I reach for.
The very first group out of it was a box of Fed factory 130 grain, and was under 3/4". That factory barrel shot fantastic. The trigger is great, the action is slick as greased snot and locks up like a vault. I get more than a dozen loads out of the brass, which admittedly is a bit expensive. Resize like any other shouldered round. The belt is not needed, it's a throwback to the original, which is the 375 H&H, and it was so tapered they felt it needed a belt. But ignore it, it causes no issues I've found.
The second was a 240 mag. It also shot fantastic, and also shot it out. I didn't hang onto that one regrettably.
The 224 is less than impressive though in my book. That wouldn't be my choice. But the 257 is another story. I've considered it many times, but my 270 shoots just as flat and is more versatile imo, being a better elk round if I ever decide to hunt them.
cropdamage
Active member
Who Tee Who has a couple videos on the new Weatherby 307 in 257wby. Shot fairly well for shooting off a bipod.
AdamT
Well-known member
I have one rifle chambered in the Weatherby family, and it is a .257. The rifle is a Rem 700 CDL fluted, blued, not stainless. I bought it used within the last year and a half or so and have only shot one load of factory ammo with it, Weatherby brand with 100 gr TTSX. It easily shot sub MOA off the bench when sighting in, and more like .5-.75. I didn’t get to take any deer with it this past season so can’t comment on performance on game. My father in law has a MK 5 Deluxe also in .257 though, and every deer he has shot with it never took a step. Ammo isn’t cheap, but I will likely only ever shoot it again at deer so the price of a shell is worth the amount of meat. I didn’t need it, I have a .270 Win that does just fine. I hunt a lot of open pastures and farm fields though so I liked the thought of a bit faster and flatter. Speed kills, but so does anything else if you put it where it needs to be. To me it’s not much different than having a 204, 22-250, or 220 swift for varmints. I own all 3 of those, as well as a 222 and 223. Any of those will work just fine, some just make you smile a little wider when you see how well they work.
The only reason I really want one is for coyote calling contest. Most likely it wouldn't get shot near as much as some of the other guns I have. Hunting at night mostly is the reason I was thinking about getting one. It's hard to judge distance at night and even sometimes during the day. It'd be nice to have a rifle I can just put on fur and squeeze the trigger and still have enough energy to take them out at extended ranges if need be. I've even thought about a .240 Weatherby. I'm not so much worried about cost of ammo because I wouldn't be shootin this gun all the time. It's strictly a contest thing. Out here on the flat lands it might seem like it's way closer than it really is. I want to take the guess work out of it if at all possible.
If I'm huntin for fun that's one thing. I don't mind letting one go if that's the case. If it's a matter of winning or losing money I'd rather just shoot and kill it if it's hung up behind sagebrush at 300 yards.
If I'm huntin for fun that's one thing. I don't mind letting one go if that's the case. If it's a matter of winning or losing money I'd rather just shoot and kill it if it's hung up behind sagebrush at 300 yards.
Austin Laughlin
Well-known member
I think you’re way better off getting a mainstream caliber, and using that. If you wanted a little more speed, and that’s why you went the Wby route, you can just Ackley Improve your other cartridge. Ackley Improving it will give you a tad bit more speed, better case life when reloading, and not nearly as expensive as Wby.
A 257 Wby is ballistically identical to a 25-06 AI. The AI is much much cheaper to shoot, and you’ll get better brass life. It’s always a win win for me. I think you’d find that same result.
wolverines
Well-known member
I don't own a 224, but my 257 is very finicky.
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
If you’re talking 300 yards just get a 243 or 6mm and load 55 grain Nosler ballistic tips. With a 26 inch barrel which is what a Wearherby be is going to be anyways they’re going to shoot just as flat. Look at some hand loaded data with a 55 gain bullet. You can pump them up around to 4250 fps and beyond with a long barrel along with hand loads. Recoil and easier brass to get your hands on Beside it’s way cheaper factory ammo. I think I’m loaded about a half a grain over max book load with my 22 inch AR barrel and getting close to 4150 FPS. Flat out to 400 yards. i’ve never tried 55s in my 26 inch heavy barrel since 70 shoot so well in it I leave it alone. Also a 243 will be a lot more tighter, shooting caliber in my opinion. It will also save you a lot less powder if you reload. I’m sure a heavier bullet will give you a lot more energy and a lot longer distance but it’s not gonna be as flat and that’s not what you’re going for it sounds like.
I remember back in the 90s when I used to get varmint master magazine. I looked at how flat caliber shot back in the day in the 243 and 257. We’re almost comparable with the lightest projectiles shot in each caliber for comparison. What won me over at the time is the 243 was the top caliber for benchrest shooting accuracy. But you have to remember that was 30 years ago. Tried to improve the wheel since then.
One of my most accurate rifles is a factory Remington 700 VLS 26” heavy barrel that I put a Timney trigger in and an HS precision stock. it will shoot one hole groups at 200 yards with hand loaded 90 grain and 70 grain Nosler ballistic tips. Just something to think outside the box with for you before you pull the trigger on the new rifle.
My 70 grain loads shoot 3650 fps out of the 20” barrel and are the the hammer of Thor on coyotes way past the distances I shoot them at. I had a coyote I zippered open on a broad side shot close to 400 yards the first time out with it decades ago. I hit it a little too far back at an angle and it opened it up. Its intestines were hanging out of the big hole it made from the shot while running. It ran out to about 850 yards. I never shot that rifle that far at the time and my rangefinder didn’t read that far so I took a few shots at it laying down till I hooked up with it to finish it off. Needless to say that thing flipped over backwards when I connected with it at that distance.
I remember back in the 90s when I used to get varmint master magazine. I looked at how flat caliber shot back in the day in the 243 and 257. We’re almost comparable with the lightest projectiles shot in each caliber for comparison. What won me over at the time is the 243 was the top caliber for benchrest shooting accuracy. But you have to remember that was 30 years ago. Tried to improve the wheel since then.
One of my most accurate rifles is a factory Remington 700 VLS 26” heavy barrel that I put a Timney trigger in and an HS precision stock. it will shoot one hole groups at 200 yards with hand loaded 90 grain and 70 grain Nosler ballistic tips. Just something to think outside the box with for you before you pull the trigger on the new rifle.
My 70 grain loads shoot 3650 fps out of the 20” barrel and are the the hammer of Thor on coyotes way past the distances I shoot them at. I had a coyote I zippered open on a broad side shot close to 400 yards the first time out with it decades ago. I hit it a little too far back at an angle and it opened it up. Its intestines were hanging out of the big hole it made from the shot while running. It ran out to about 850 yards. I never shot that rifle that far at the time and my rangefinder didn’t read that far so I took a few shots at it laying down till I hooked up with it to finish it off. Needless to say that thing flipped over backwards when I connected with it at that distance.
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For all the reasons you described I think I'd be looking at some kind of fast stepping 6mm like a 6-284. I shoot 75gr Vmax in my 6-284 and my load with H4350 is very mild and they're still leaving at 3680. I could change to a different powder like RL26 and send them at 3900 but I still have a couple hundred rounds loaded with H4350 I need to use up first.
A fast twist 22 Creedmoor, 22-250 or 220 Swift slinging 75gr ELD-M or 77gr TMK would be somewhere around 3600 and lethal on coyotes. Brass availability is going to be the best with the 22 Creedmoor so I'd probably go that route in a 22 cal rifle.
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
Just for the fun of it, I went into Nikon ballistic program. Take the info for what it’s worth. I didn’t even pump the 243 up to what I would consider max velocity and left it at 4150 ft./s. with a 55 grain NBT. That’s what my load shoots out of a 22” BCA upper with .3” 100 yard groups. Not the greatest group but good enough for a $300 upper. I also went in and looked at Nosler’s max loading with a 257 Weatherby with an 85 grain bullet so I use that data at 3700 to kind of keep it. The same longer barrels will make both velocities jump a little, but the 243 out shoots it with the lightest bullet offering versus lightest bullet offering in both calibers, you can see on the chart below that I copied from the Program…
243 with 55 grain Nosler ballistic tips at 4150 fpa with a 225yard zero….
257 Weatherby with 85 grain Nosler ballistic tips at 3700 fps with also a 225 yard zero…
so I realize I 257 will hit it harder but I’ll guarantee you a coyote won’t know the difference between the two Boolits and both will hit the ground like Thors hammer hit them. You can see the 243 will get there faster and flatter so if you’re looking for something that you don’t have to hold over you can do it with a lot less powder and with a caliber that’s inherently more accurate. How many people have shot competitions with Weatherby calibers?
So, even if you used a factory load with the 55 grain NBT’s, which are advertised about 100 ft./s slower, they still will shoot just as flat of flatter with the 243 vs the 257. We can argue all day how the 257 with a heavier bullet will probably buck the wind better but the average “called in“ Coyote wont lock that far out to worry about it.
243 with 55 grain Nosler ballistic tips at 4150 fpa with a 225yard zero….
257 Weatherby with 85 grain Nosler ballistic tips at 3700 fps with also a 225 yard zero…
so I realize I 257 will hit it harder but I’ll guarantee you a coyote won’t know the difference between the two Boolits and both will hit the ground like Thors hammer hit them. You can see the 243 will get there faster and flatter so if you’re looking for something that you don’t have to hold over you can do it with a lot less powder and with a caliber that’s inherently more accurate. How many people have shot competitions with Weatherby calibers?
So, even if you used a factory load with the 55 grain NBT’s, which are advertised about 100 ft./s slower, they still will shoot just as flat of flatter with the 243 vs the 257. We can argue all day how the 257 with a heavier bullet will probably buck the wind better but the average “called in“ Coyote wont lock that far out to worry about it.
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That's pretty interesting as far as flat shooting goes. I guess my only other concern is if a coyote is turned walking straight away or running away will that 55 or 58 grain bullet pack enough punch to ethically put it down? That would be my only concern as far as using the .243 would be. I feel like bullets on the heavier end would give a person some leeway as far as less than ideal angles and such. I realize no matter what bullet weight with bad placement will have the same result but if one is heading straight away and I connect is it going to put it down on the spot with the lighter, more frangible bullet?
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
The 55’s blow right through coyotes for me. Not that it needs to since its way overkill on yotes. You could always go 70 grain. This is the velocity I get out of my 26 inch barrel with hand loads with about 2/10 of a grain over book. The load basically shoots as flat as the 257 Weatherby 85 grain out to 400 yards. I can bet you would never know the difference in terminal performance shooting both calibers a coyote out to 400 plus yards. I blown holes through coyotes that you could clap your hands in with the 70 grain in my load. Ive chest shot them straight on and they exit out the back. I’ve also completely blown heads off of coyotes as well. Close counts with the 70 grain NBT. The 243 with the 70 grain Nosler was so destructive on some of my shots that I connected with bone on the way in, or out, that a few of my buddies sold theirs off and bought 22-250s.. lol. Bullet choice is going to be the deciding factor on penetration and exits no matter what caliber you choose.
The bottom line is you can talk yourself in or out of any caliber. It’s just up to you I guess you just have to pick one and go with it but any weather cartridge would be the last cartridge that I would use for a predator hunt.
….heck you could pick a 25-06 and load with the same 85 grain ballistic tip, but nobody seems to really use that cartridge anymore either for coyotes. At least you could use any 30-06 casings family brass and neck down all day long so it would cost you pennies on the dollar for brass. You’re also gonna be burning up a lot more powder and probably not be as accurate as a 243 but if you have your mind set up by a Weatherby and make your choice. I just don’t think you’re gonna be happy with the accuracy if you’re previously shooting varmint and predator guns that all shoot in the same hole consistently… I know I wouldn’t that’s why I never bought one. Also, with the extra powder with today’s economy. The Wearherby cartridges remind me when I pulled my 300 rum out the year before last and loaded up 50 rounds and went through a pound of powder vs I can pull my 30-06 out and use less thsn half of the powder I use in my 300 rum and there is zero difference of “on game” knock down performance. There’s no sense in it for me.
I’m only one person with one opinion. What ever you decide make sure to let us know and how it shoots!
The bottom line is you can talk yourself in or out of any caliber. It’s just up to you I guess you just have to pick one and go with it but any weather cartridge would be the last cartridge that I would use for a predator hunt.
….heck you could pick a 25-06 and load with the same 85 grain ballistic tip, but nobody seems to really use that cartridge anymore either for coyotes. At least you could use any 30-06 casings family brass and neck down all day long so it would cost you pennies on the dollar for brass. You’re also gonna be burning up a lot more powder and probably not be as accurate as a 243 but if you have your mind set up by a Weatherby and make your choice. I just don’t think you’re gonna be happy with the accuracy if you’re previously shooting varmint and predator guns that all shoot in the same hole consistently… I know I wouldn’t that’s why I never bought one. Also, with the extra powder with today’s economy. The Wearherby cartridges remind me when I pulled my 300 rum out the year before last and loaded up 50 rounds and went through a pound of powder vs I can pull my 30-06 out and use less thsn half of the powder I use in my 300 rum and there is zero difference of “on game” knock down performance. There’s no sense in it for me.
I’m only one person with one opinion. What ever you decide make sure to let us know and how it shoots!
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What you're saying makes perfect sense to me honestly. It really does. I'd never in my life think I'd dream of shooting a cartridge that would tear a coyote apart but as the fur market has tanked I gotta be motivated to get out there and kill some coyotes too. I can't just sit at home and read about it. I trust y'all's opinion. I've been shootin coyotes for a long time but it's always been geared towards saving pelts for me.
If I can save money and dump coyotes way out there and not care if its pelt looks nice I'll for sure do it. I might shake my head at the sight of a pretty pelt ruined but I'll be carrying one back to the truck. I just gotta get into that mindset because I never have thought that way.
A .243 would be great if it'll do what I'm needing it to do. Too easy, and I like easy. I guess that's what's good about me. I'll start out with an idea and let others critique what I'm saying. I don't know it all. I'll take y'all's advice to heart because you've been there, done that. I've killed coyotes with a .243, seen many killed with many different calibers and such. But I don't know it all. Far from it. So I pay attention when y'all tell me something.
If I can save money and dump coyotes way out there and not care if its pelt looks nice I'll for sure do it. I might shake my head at the sight of a pretty pelt ruined but I'll be carrying one back to the truck. I just gotta get into that mindset because I never have thought that way.
A .243 would be great if it'll do what I'm needing it to do. Too easy, and I like easy. I guess that's what's good about me. I'll start out with an idea and let others critique what I'm saying. I don't know it all. I'll take y'all's advice to heart because you've been there, done that. I've killed coyotes with a .243, seen many killed with many different calibers and such. But I don't know it all. Far from it. So I pay attention when y'all tell me something.
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Austin Laughlin
Well-known member
They’ll be DRT. When I was running my 243 AI, I ran 55gr, 58gr, and the 60s. They will tear a heck of a hole if you catch bone or hit a hard angle. But every one I ever killed was absolutely devastated. My faster 22cal with 40-55gr pills, will anchor a coyote facing away. Shot plenty in the hind quarters, facing dead away, and they died right there. Once in awhile you might get a spinner but they’d get dizzy enough and fall over quick too
Well I'm seriously considering what you told me. I'm making ant hills out of mountains for a lack of better words. I tend to do that and that's just me being me. I sit and think about things, do hours upon hours of research and then still ask questions. I'm a buy once, cry once type of guy. To a degree it's at my own detriment but that's just how I am in every aspect of my life.They’ll be DRT. When I was running my 243 AI, I ran 55gr, 58gr, and the 60s. They will tear a heck of a hole if you catch bone or hit a hard angle. But every one I ever killed was absolutely devastated. My faster 22cal with 40-55gr pills, will anchor a coyote facing away. Shot plenty in the hind quarters, facing dead away, and they died right there. Once in awhile you might get a spinner but they’d get dizzy enough and fall over quick too
I'm a thinker that's for sure.