What causes "fliers" in groups?
- Thread starter Hidalgo
- Start date
NM Leon
New member
With the same result with two shooters and the flyer going to the same spot for both, I'd discount the "shooter" theory. Given that the flyers are going to the same spot regardless of shooter, I'd look for a rifle or load problem. Since it seems to be after the barrel warms up, I'd check the rifle first.
Is the barrel free floated and how much? It's pretty common for "free floated" barrels to not have enough relief. The "normal" advice often given "slide 2 (pick a number) of pieces of paper" or "slide a business card" etc. are basically one size fits all solutions that are very often wrong. In my experience, very often factory stocks aren't stiff enough to be properly free floated without a gap of 1/4" (or more) between the barrel and forestock (it's better to stiffen them, but that's another discussion).
You often won't notice the difference until the barrel starts to warm up, which changes the way it flexes in the barrel channel and it starts contacting the barrel channel somewhere and causing (fairly consistent) flyers.
Try this, put the buttplate on the ground holding the rifle by the barrel, and give the forestock a sharp rap with the heel of your hand, directly towards the barrel and from side to side. If you can make the forestock slap the barrel, it doesn't have enough relief.
The next thing would be the load. As aulrich alluded to, if you are using a powder grain weight that is "on the edge" flyers are more likely. Did you use a ladder to work up loads (or Dan Newberry's OCW variation)?
Edit: On the other hand, Jack might be at least half right. One half of the problem might be the fact that it's a Hornet, the other half of the problem might just be the fact that it's a Ruger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Is the barrel free floated and how much? It's pretty common for "free floated" barrels to not have enough relief. The "normal" advice often given "slide 2 (pick a number) of pieces of paper" or "slide a business card" etc. are basically one size fits all solutions that are very often wrong. In my experience, very often factory stocks aren't stiff enough to be properly free floated without a gap of 1/4" (or more) between the barrel and forestock (it's better to stiffen them, but that's another discussion).
You often won't notice the difference until the barrel starts to warm up, which changes the way it flexes in the barrel channel and it starts contacting the barrel channel somewhere and causing (fairly consistent) flyers.
Try this, put the buttplate on the ground holding the rifle by the barrel, and give the forestock a sharp rap with the heel of your hand, directly towards the barrel and from side to side. If you can make the forestock slap the barrel, it doesn't have enough relief.
The next thing would be the load. As aulrich alluded to, if you are using a powder grain weight that is "on the edge" flyers are more likely. Did you use a ladder to work up loads (or Dan Newberry's OCW variation)?
Edit: On the other hand, Jack might be at least half right. One half of the problem might be the fact that it's a Hornet, the other half of the problem might just be the fact that it's a Ruger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Last edited by a moderator:
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Quote:
.....On the other hand, Jack might be at least half right. One half of the problem might be the fact that it's a Hornet, the other half of the problem might just be the fact that it's a Ruger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Quote:
"Ruger M77/22 Hornet"
There's the problem right there. It's a Hornet!!!!
Jack
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
.....On the other hand, Jack might be at least half right. One half of the problem might be the fact that it's a Hornet, the other half of the problem might just be the fact that it's a Ruger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Quote:
"Ruger M77/22 Hornet"
There's the problem right there. It's a Hornet!!!!
Jack
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Droopyfur2
New member
Hildago
Next time out with the Hornet, try fireing six or seven even eight rounds for group. If 4-5-6-7-8 group close together. It's most likely what the big Lion said!!
Later
DF2
Next time out with the Hornet, try fireing six or seven even eight rounds for group. If 4-5-6-7-8 group close together. It's most likely what the big Lion said!!
Later
DF2
stormking
New member
I'm confident my rifle DOES NOT have proper clearance (one of my summer projects).
I was shooting 35gr Vmax over 13gr Lil Gun. Might want to run another ladder and see what happens (not doubting your loading, just trying to give you another reason to burn powder!)
Even if we never figuire this out, won't hamper how much fun I have with this rifle and the cartridge.
I was shooting 35gr Vmax over 13gr Lil Gun. Might want to run another ladder and see what happens (not doubting your loading, just trying to give you another reason to burn powder!)
Even if we never figuire this out, won't hamper how much fun I have with this rifle and the cartridge.
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Quote:
I'm confident my rifle DOES NOT have proper clearance (one of my summer projects).......
Might want to run another ladder and see what happens (not doubting your loading, just trying to give you another reason to burn powder!)
I ran the ladder from 12.0 to 13.2 in .2 increments. Unlike a lot of other Hornets that seem to get better with more powder, this one hit it's consistency (if you could call it that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) at 12.5.......anything over that got worse the higher we went.
I know that I probably have a problem with barrel heat. My rifle has a support at the end of the foreend that I assume isn't helping the situation. Maybe one of these days I'll get bold enough to try and get the stock away from the barrel.
Thanks for all the input guys! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I'm confident my rifle DOES NOT have proper clearance (one of my summer projects).......
Might want to run another ladder and see what happens (not doubting your loading, just trying to give you another reason to burn powder!)
I ran the ladder from 12.0 to 13.2 in .2 increments. Unlike a lot of other Hornets that seem to get better with more powder, this one hit it's consistency (if you could call it that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) at 12.5.......anything over that got worse the higher we went.
I know that I probably have a problem with barrel heat. My rifle has a support at the end of the foreend that I assume isn't helping the situation. Maybe one of these days I'll get bold enough to try and get the stock away from the barrel.
Thanks for all the input guys! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
jlindholm70
New member
Quote:
What are you guys talking about??? I have never caused a flyer. It is always due to weather conditions, lighting, wind, the benchrest settling, etc.. I have seen ammo cause the problem if it is factory or somebody else's handloads as mine can't be the problem there either. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
The sun got in my eyes! As stated above, I know when I pull the trigger if it's the suns fault. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
What are you guys talking about??? I have never caused a flyer. It is always due to weather conditions, lighting, wind, the benchrest settling, etc.. I have seen ammo cause the problem if it is factory or somebody else's handloads as mine can't be the problem there either. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
The sun got in my eyes! As stated above, I know when I pull the trigger if it's the suns fault. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
bluealtered
New member
Thats what i like about this site,... the honesty.
Lord knows how many scopes,... rests, ... how much different ammo i've gone threw in 40+ years trying to stop those flyers, ..... but it is me. (a good trigger job does help) blue
Lord knows how many scopes,... rests, ... how much different ammo i've gone threw in 40+ years trying to stop those flyers, ..... but it is me. (a good trigger job does help) blue
Grunter
New member
I was having a similar problem with fliers. I checked everything. Rings, mounts and went back to the drawing board with the load development. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
The problem was so obvious it was of course the last thing that I checked. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Target movement!
One well placed shot and the target never moved again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
The problem was so obvious it was of course the last thing that I checked. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Target movement!
One well placed shot and the target never moved again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
220_Swift
Retired PM Staff
Hidalgo,
I am like you,Yes I own Rugers!
My 243 was the worst shooting of the bunch.I had it a my gunsmith for a trigger job thinking that was my problem.He found my clearance problem and corrected it.Now it is one of my favorites.
That made me check the others and they were all that way.
They are all fixed now!
I am like you,Yes I own Rugers!
My 243 was the worst shooting of the bunch.I had it a my gunsmith for a trigger job thinking that was my problem.He found my clearance problem and corrected it.Now it is one of my favorites.
That made me check the others and they were all that way.
They are all fixed now!