Open cylinder works best with BBB Black cloud. Give it a try .quote=DiRTY DOG]Originally Posted By: dennydPattern some Black Cloud BBB, if you want tight you will not get a tighter pattern, bb is good to, but bbb has plenty for taking fox at any range you are going to use a shotgun for, it's the wad, it's not a gimmick, it works. What choke you use with that? [/quote]